Booking Fairness... Time for a Rethink??
The club needs to have a good hard think about their booking policies. Having just had a look to see about getting away in late July, early August, everything looks to be fully booked. I realise everyone is desperate to get away in particular after lockdown but, more generally, not allowing members fair access to sites is poor.
Some sites have been known, previously, to book up for the year in advance...
We have two young children and cannot book a year ahead like a retired couple, for example, could do. The sites get immediately booked up, particularly at weekends and we are left with either small sites with poor facilities (for children in particular) or having to travel great distances.
Would it not be fairer to give each member, 3 or so advanced bookings for the year that could be booked up to a year ahead and then open up the rest of the pitches on a one month in advance rolling basis. This would also stop the very poor, yet common, behavior of blindly booking sites "just in case" then cancelling before the 72 hour deadline.
If the club and even the industry want to target and cater for more families then it needs to be easily accessible. At the moment I honestly don't feel it is.
I don't have the silver bullet answer but wanted to raise my concerns...
Comments
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The club is damned if they do and damned if they don't. For a long time people wanted the booking system changed and it has been.
I'm sorry it doesn't suit your personal circumstances, ML, but most of us have constraints one way or another and the club cannot cater for every possible scenario. Many people with children are able to book well ahead as they know when school holidays fall. Tbh, I'm not at all surprised that, in June, sites are well booked for July & August.
How do you know people book just in case and then cancel? Even the club doesn't have that info. Assumption and speculation, methinks.😏
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I think you last comment just about sums it up, there is no silver bullet! This has been discussed many times. I think the way you should look at it is that you have a equal chance of booking a site as anyone else, that is the fairness of the Club's system. You are perfectly able to book a site a year ahead and you have the opportunity to cancel or amend at a later date. Obviously I don't know what personal constraints you have on your holiday planning but if you always leave things to the last minute you are always going to hit the same problem. I don't see what sort of system the Club could put in place that would meet your requirements. If they hold back bookings "just in case" they risk having lower occupancy rates because there is no guarantee those pitches would be taken up. Having said that, although we don't have children to take into consideration we rarely book more than a month ahead all through the year but then we are not trying to book a two week slot on a popular campsite although as we only want a very days we can often get in.
David
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.... and when you do retire or your children grow up, will you change sides then? Most of us retirees I would imagine had already accepted the limitations children and working came with, it still is as it is and nothing has changed that. Why would you wish to curtail our new found freedom to enhance yours.
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Although us retired folk can (and we do) book a year in advance, our futures are probably as uncertain as your own. Either because of our health, or that of aging parents changes may be necessary. I am certainly not advocating booking just on the off-chance of going, however, I see nothing wrong with planning well in advance and then amending in the event of problems. The T&C's are one of the main advantages of belonging to the CAMC and make the prices it charges, particularly at peak, acceptable.
Are other providers, in popular areas, any easier to get into at this late stage for July and August?
As to facilities for young children. Are they going to open the play area? It would be another area needing constant cleaning.
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Motorhomelife,
We have two young children and cannot book a year ahead like a retired couple, for example, could do.
It seems to me the problem is you are trying to be too fair to everyone else and need to jump on the bandwagon.
What is stopping you from booking a number of 2 week slots a year in advance well before you know your holiday dates? When the dates become known cancel the ones you cannot use. As long as you don't cancel these spare dates 72 hrs before arrival ( still actually just within the rules) I cannot actually see the problem.
Alternatively you could look outside the network of Club sites and use CLs for a much more relaxed holiday. We always avoided Club sites at peak periods when we were in the same situation.
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Good point, Mikey. It's acceptable within the rules and grabbing a cancellation will make someone else's day 🙂
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How do you know people book just in case and then cancel?
TW I proved that some time ago and even posted the detail in graphical form, you may remember? The thread has long since disappeared unfortunately or I would quote it here. Trouble is what it showed is that the cancellations were taken up so the Club never lost money and as a result has no incentive to change.
My advice to the OP is the same as Mickey's or try elsewhere.
peedee
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My recent experience with a 7 year old grandson shows me that he likes football, kite flying, campfires, catching tadpoles, off road bike riding, hot tubs, and climbing trees. None of those go down well on Club sites - so older members can relax - I won't be taking him there. There are better places for him - and few of them are cramped quarter acre CLs either.
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Sorry, but I simply think you need to be more proactive and organised. Anyone, old young, family, couple, single, can book a Site well in advance with CAMC, and has up to four days before arrival to change their mind, go somewhere else, or simply not go at all. No deposit, no cancellation fee, no holiday insurance required. It’s as simple as that. It’s probably the unique selling point of being a Member, I can’t think of another holiday company that is so relaxed about selling its pitches.
Some sites are extremely popular, some Sites have limited pitch numbers, and coming out of the worst cannot travel scenario since the Black Death, it’s hardly surprising that folks are desperate to get away, add in that some Sites might have lost a few pitches because of social distancing, and you have the current situation.
Its as simple as that really, if you fancy a break, just book it ASAP, remember your dates and make sure you either turn up or cancel four days prior to setting off.
Hope you find something that suits👍🙂
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"Motorhomelife"
If your two young children are at school you should know at the beginning of the academic year (September) the dates for all holidays throughout the next 12 months. Therefore, what stops you deciding when you want to take them away and making the booking at that time?
You could book in September for July or August of the following year, unless you don't know when you are able to be off work.
When we were limited to school holiday periods we had to book well in advance. Now as a retired couple we can go away whenever we please but we certainly don't book a year ahead. Often it is just a few days in advance. If we wish to go away to a particular place at a particular time we book that as soon as we can. So can you!
Please don't lay the blame for your not being able to book now for July/August on retired couples. In any year it is late to make such a booking and this year is exceptional. Also remember that some retired people choose not to book sites for peak periods because:
1) they prefer more quiet times
2) they are aware they don't need to be there at those times whereas some people can only go during school holidays. By not going at those times they are giving families more chance of making a booking.
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Agree with the above, we leave the school holidays for the families and holiday when it is less busy, and also less expensive!
Until recently we would book our trips, which were anything from 3 weeks to 3 months, well ahead. If you are touring from site to site, being allowed just 3 advance bookings would be of little use.
Now we are (were!) helpIng look after our grandson, we are a bit more restricted.
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"Having just had a look to see about getting away in late July, early August, everything looks to be fully booked."
Hi ML, as already said it is not really a surprise that, in June, there is not much availability.
It would be so in normal times but with the current situation it is reasonable to assume that it may be even more so.
In the short term I think you will be able to get something but it will likely involve a compromise and the appeal of that depends on your own personal preferences.
We will keep an open mind, and are in no rush to enjoy a staycation in the van but we are lucky to live in Cornwall so can just do days out.
So far as booking there are often a lot of factors beyond your control but the last time we holidayed in school holiday period we booked the site, in France, over 12 months before we went as we knew this was the only way to be sure to get something.
One thing that may be a possibility is a holiday rally so worth checking the 'whats on' pages.
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I have similar concerns. I guess if the pitch fill ratio remains high the CMC won't be bothered but my experience over probably 10 years is the system is less than optimal.
Every long stay (in our definition a week or more to include a weekend) we've booked has been stitching together the odd days here and there. Then as soon as the weekend approaches (it's always the weekends which are full) the cancellations happen and we always had the stay we originally wanted.
Maybe we just need to do the same and book every weekend we can a year in advance and then fine tune 4 days before when we know the weather forecast.
Or perhaps a non-refundable deposit?
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Or perhaps a non-refundable deposit?
I have five sites booked for May / June 2021. I just told them to transfer the deposit from this years aborted bookings. So not sure deposits would make much difference. There is also the fact that if you have paid a deposit, that you are going to loose, you might not bother cancelling, thus the booking would not be available for someone else.
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I'm sure deposits would make a difference because fewer members would book "on a whim" if money was at stake especially if, a larger deposit was required the father in advance you booked. My suggestion upthread of booking many 2 weeks slots only works because it doesn't cost any money, I wouldn't suggest it if a £100 week non refundable deposit was lost for every week not taken.
With regard to you second point, not informing/turning up if you had already paid a deposit is just the same as not turning up now. The first night is lost to the Club but subsequent nights can be sold. Currently the member would only receive a "slap on the wrist" so in reality it is no big deal.
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The “club” is a business selling a product (a pitch) all they want to do is sell it , it’s first come first served . When I book a site I don’t give it a second thought if I’m taking the pitch away from someone else , also the Club is not the only organisation that sells pitches , if my supermarket has sold out of something I go to another supermarket, same with the club
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I'm glad to see I have promoted some healthy discussion on the topic. Thanks all for your input
Firstly my post was not to point blame at retirees, merely to show two ends of a spectrum. Please don't take offense as none was intended.
My post was targeted at the general booking of sites across the year and not just now in these interesting times and this time of year.
My children are not yet of school age and actually the visiting we do of CAMC sites is almost always for weekends only. We really like the facilities and most importantly consistency of CAMC sites - you know what level to expect. We've tried other club's sites and they can be very hit and miss.
Its understood that when they are of school age its clear when school holidays are and that these can be booked well in advance.
The club is indeed a business and as such has no real desire to change what its doing as its clearly pulling in the pounds so if it ain't broke don't fix it right??
I like the idea mentioned of having a non-refundable deposit style system that means members are discouraged from booking "on a whim" with a sliding nonrefundable deposit scale. This makes sense and would apply to all members irrespective of personal circumstance. I know members that do "book on a whim" but I don't know statistics so maybe the few I know are the only ones... Who knows right? That said someone above mentioned having evidence previously on these statistics which were now no longer available.
Retired or working regardless, I feel the ethos of my points still stand. Allow a certain number of 'book well ahead' slots per member. Then maybe, for the very popular sites, have a limited book ahead date of a month, maybe 2 maybe 3 in advance. In the hope that it gives more members more of a chance to get a date more of the time. Other less popular sites maybe have a longer book ahead time?
Happy Caravanning / Motorhoming!
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No, PD, I do not remember and I think it’s impossibłe to prove without access to the club's booking system.
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The ability to book without deposit, and to cancel as per the rules, is the Club's unique selling point. Take that away and IMO they would lose quite a few members, particularly if the deposit was non refundable.
Even the CCC, of which we are also members, and who do require a deposit, allow you to cancel and receive a refund up to 31 days before the booking. And after that they will take the circumstances of the cancellation into account. Their selling points for us are the ability to book the pitch surface, and the over 60s discount.
Were CAMC to introduce non refundable deposits, there would be no reason for us to be members of both clubs.
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ML, I really can't see your problem with booking ahead. Your logic is full of flaws but it’s been debated so many times, particularly under the old booking system, that it’s been done to death.
To all those who wish to do away with the big benefit of this club and instigate a deposit system I say you are in the wrong club. C&CC is the one for you.
Why anyone would wish to spoil things for the many in their quest to satisfy their own personal needs, I don't know and I'm struggling hard here not to use the word 'selfish' but, to put it in a nutshell, the booking system is fair. We all have equal chances. It’s your own personal ways or circumstances that have stopped you getting what you want, not the club's system.
I'm sorry if you don't like my words but that's the way it is.
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+1 there Husky, always said that the club only has about 10% of the market.
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I can fully understand your reasons for wanting a club site, I feel the same way and on the few occasions I have used other providers I too have wished I hadn't, not everyone feels this way of course and that is fine but a lot of people do think this way.
And that is the problem really, club sites are very popular, and probably due to the current situation of of not being able to go abroad this summer I think they are even more popular this year than in previous years
I think you are just trying to change the current system to suit your own circumstances? What happen when your proposed system when they do, will you want change again? Perhaps they don't suit you but suit others, why should that change?
The club has a first come first served system, I fail to see how it could be made any fairer. Would you ask your favourite restaurant to keep some tables free for last minute bookers? Also as club sites are so popular then even with booking a month ahead they will still get taken up. What makes you think you will get a pitch even then, will you first in the queue?
The simple truth is that demands exceed supply at the moment, and indeed always has done so.
You mentioned deposits but in fact the situation was worse with them, people paid and having done so didn't bother to cancel or tell the club and so a lot of no shows and empty pitches. When they removed the number of no shows according to the club went down
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I understand where the OP is coming from, I'm self employed and don't always know months in advance when I'll be able to use my motorhome. I enjoy this club because we don't need to pay deposits. But maybe changing the cancelation period to longer than 72 hours would help stop those last minute cancelations and mean more pitches wouldn't go unused? Just an idea...
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Evening
ML, in your OP you mention about fully booked sites, especially weekends, then in your second post you say that you mainly use sites at the weekends?! Surely by that you are part of your own issue? I mean no offence at all but I suggest that looking for a holiday on a club site in late July / August which is obviously school holidays in the middle of June will always bring up fully booked sites. You need to go with the flow and book early for dates you think you'll need. Quite within the rules.
Peedee, it's still a myth my friend, I wish I could share the facts with you
JK
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Peedee, it's still a myth my friend, I wish I could share the facts with you
JK
Why not be brave and give us a bit of a clue, we won't tell anyone
I am never quite sure why the Club is so secretive about sharing information on booking/cancellation statistics. If we knew more it might stop discussions like this getting off the ground?David
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One man's meat is another man's poison. The current system suits me fine. As I mentioned we tend not to book more than a month ahead which most of the times works out well. Working on that basis I have to be prepared to be flexible on which sites I use. I like the no penalty cancellation period not because I tend to use it much but I do often benefit from a late cancellation. If we had deposits it might put me at a disadvantage as once a deposit is paid those bookings will generally honoured and my chance of a late cancellation probably blown out of the water! There is always an assumption with deposits that magically they will provide site bookings for all whether you book a year ahead or two days ahead. I somehow doubt that. The popular sites will remain popular and booked up the less popular sites will be less booked up, a bit like now. I don't have a particular problem paying a deposit but I don't think it will resolve the problem of the OP.
David
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Having recently had a look at possible sites for late July and August we have discovered that there are only a few days here and there available on many sites within a reasonable distance. As the prices are also in excess of £30 per night it looks like we will be giving club sites a miss and finding alternative options for sometime yet.
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