Motor homes and payloads
Currently own a caravan but was looking at replacing with a 2nd hand motor home...BUT having decided on layout I am increasingly concerned at payload. It would be for 2 of us plus dog and 2 push bikes. Was looking at something like the Autotrail 632.( Liked the idea of fixed bed plus garage) Budget around £40k
I'm starting to get the impression that with a 3500 KG Gross Vehicle Weight this might not be possible. It's made even harder to work out as most of the dealer web sites don't give any indication of payload or MIRO. Any pointers or advice?
Thanks
Comments
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If buying from a dealer ask him to weigh it as it stands on his forecourt, add 200 kg for full load of fuel and water, then weigh yourself, your wife and your bikes and add all that too. What does it come to?
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I am sure BB will be along to give you chapter and verse on motorhome payload soon. When I was looking to change our previous motorhomes one unusual thing I noticed about Autotrail coachbuilt motorhomes (not van conversions) is that they appear only to have 60 litre fuel tanks(as opposed to the normal 90 litres), probably to save weight. On the surface payloads seem quite generous compared to caravans but when you have to take everything in one vehicle it becomes more critical. You need check the spec for the motorhome in question as usually they only allow 75kgs for the driver, maybe no water on board so if you want to carry a good supply of water, a passenger, dog, bikes it all eats into the available payload so you have to do your calculations. Depending on your age and licence it may be possible to up-plate the vehicle to say 3650 or higher but there are perils in doing this. Perhaps you need to cast your net wider in terms of models as you will certainly find some continental models with higher payloads, providing having the door on the other side is not a problem to you. We have recently changed to a different model Bailey motorhome which has a payload of around 750kgs which gives us a bit of leeway over our previous model.
David
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Thanks both. I am surprised how little mention there is of payloads on a number of the dealer sites. I'm guessing 500kg would be about the minimum I'd get away with? (allowing for food/ crockery/ etc etc)
Will try and find some continental models to look at
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hi, not chapter and verse but to say that the AT 632 has been the subject of a number of 'payload' threads.
IMHO, the new model (longer/heavier than a likely second hand model) is certainly 'difficult' to run at 3500kg even with just two people..just go to AT website and look at their 'weight calculator' page for the 632.
older versions may be a little better but care may be needed.
even with 500kg of payload, youll quickly eat into that with a full water tank and your OH (175 together) bikes and dog (another 30)...so now less than 300 left.
this will need to accommodate and outside gear (tables, chairs, water mgt kit, tools etc) along with all your 'living' equipment like pots, pans, electrical items, clothes, boots, bedding (far heavier than you'd think), books, maps etc.
there are also factory/dealer fitted extras like a 2nd leisure battery, satellite system, solar panel, inverters, bike rack (even inside a garage)
i like ET s idea of weighing the van as is and adding everything ypu can think of.
fixed rear beds and a garage underneath is al ost the exclusive preserve of continental vans and there are loads to choose from.
good luck.
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I've got a Marquis Majestic 125 running at 3500Kg. Garage at back under a transverse fixed double. 6M long, so fairly compact. The Peugeot van is front heavy, so unless you travel with paving slabs for your outdoor space, it'll run at that weight.
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After looking at alt the very good advice here ,i would keep my caravan
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Having been stopped by the police and escorted to a weigh bridge I have become far more weight conscious. We were just okay but the experience was not one I wish to repeat. The good thing mind was that we were issued with a free printout of the axel weights. Once home I weighed everything, including wife, that was removable from the van. At 1kg per litre I also had a gestimate for the water on board. As a result we had a real rethink about the essentials we carried and decided to adopt a light approach to packing for our tours. Quite surprising how much we carried which added very little to the enjoyment of our pastime. We now also only ever carry enough water on board when traveling for a couple of kettles.
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Since our ten years of motor caravans and now back with towing a caravan,I have yet to understand all the "negative?"worry about payloads of caravans, as the ever present go almost any where with no getting ready to move,support vehicle along side with enough load capacity for all our long tour needs
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folk contemplate moving to a mh for lots of reasons, one is to be able to pull over when you feel like it and stay for one night or more if it appeals.
we couldnt do the sort of impromptu touring we do in the 2/3 weeks we take to bimble to or from the south of france or spain if we had a caravan..it would be too much hassle and we couldnt stop at some of the places we do as they are for mh only.
re: payloads, you just need to understand what is available and how that can best be used.
some vans are easier to live with,ayload wise, than others.
we have a rear bedded, garage model with many extras and can run comfortably at 3.5t carrying everything for an extended three month trip, incl electric bikes.
it can certainly be done, but care needs to be taken over model choice.
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We had a Bailey 625se MH, never had a problem with the payload, we weighed everything the first time out, took it to weighbridge and still had plenty left. We had a full water tank but we never travelled with it full more like 40 ltrs. However some of the bigger vans of that make struggle to stay within the allowance.
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It is not only payload but Axle weights you need to watch. On our previous van we were within the payload when we had it weighed however we were very near to the 2000kg rear axle limit. If we went up to the full 3850kg it may have tipped the rear axle over the limit and that was without bikes. Not had the new van weighed yet as we have not been past the weighbridge which is 30 miles away but hoping to soon to get an idea of where we are but as we are now plated at 4500kg hoping we have plenty to spare even with 2 bikes in the garage now....
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as Michael says, most wont have a problem on the 'heavy' 4250kg chassis, but licence restrictions may apply.
the 3650/3850 upgrades are used by salesman to allay any customer 'payload fears' yet do nothing to alleviate the usual rear axle issues found as vans move to 7m or so....and beyond.
Swift have a 8m+ van in their range running at 3500 with about 250kg payload and a rear axle thats close to the limit the moment the water tank is filled and the passenger steps aboard.
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Thanks everyone. Plenty to think about. Currently have a 6 berth twin axle caravan for the 2 of us and am starting to think I might just upgrade that. Will continue a search for a suitable motor home for the time being but not easy when most dealer sites don't even give an indication of pay load. There must be lots of people that get caught out with this.
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JVB, the point is that UK caravan payloads are notoriously low these days, and sometimes upgrades are not available or are only small.
By the time you have added the battery etc and a Mover, the amount left for clothes, bedding, food and other essentials is totally inadequate, just ask TammyGirl!
Not everyone wants to have to fill their car with so much stuff, especially when touring with maybe only 4 or 5 nights at each place.
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The fact that you don’t understand the problem doesn’t mean that it does not exist, JV.
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I did not say it does not exist, but I would think that most who buy caravans, will look at what can be carried
?and they as others have mentioned can carry a quite large payload in the tow vehicle,some caravans have quite large payloads but then they are already heavy, which in the uk market is not compatible with most owners tow vehicles0 -
I think, with both caravans and MHs, that purchasers may not realise just how low the payloads often are, and dealers are not rushing to bring that fact to the attention of potential customers.
A heavy caravan is not a problem for the correct tow vehicle, but if you have not researched your various weights properly before making a purchase, you can make a very expensive mistake!
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I did not say it does not exist, but I would think that most who buy caravans, will look at what can be carried
I suspect that most first time purchasers will not realise the significance of 120 kg payload when 50 kg is taken by nover and battery etc
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Agree. When we had a motorhome and were looking at replacing it, payload was important. Looking round, both at the NEC and individual dealers, questioning payloads was like asking for the impossible. When asked, most dealers didn't even know the first thing about the payload for any given MH we were interested in. OK, don't expect them to know everything about every single MH, but the reaction was always that "it will be fine". Really?
I do think that payload, whether for caravan or MH, is not as important to dealers as it should be, but then, being cynical, why should it be? It's not in their interest.
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Many caravans suffer from very low payloads but at least you can load the car up. As has been said many times on this forum, motorhome payloads can be a joke and certain manufacturers imply that you can get away with quite low payload such as 350kg. One “trick” is to give you a massive fresh water tank then tell you to only fill it to 20% for travelling. 120 litres is 120 kg which can slightly eat into your allowance!
We travel very light - no bikes, no picnic table, tiny groundsheet etc. - and with a full water tank (but on a diet) we have 460kg.
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It is why a lot of folk are buying pickups, their payload is over 1.1tonnes.
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Further to what David says, there is one Continental make that fits habitation doors on the UK kerbside. They are Benimar ( personally I think they all should. Having seen folk with children trying to get out of a motorhome in a layby in Scotland, with inches between them and a passing log lorry !) Another subject.
Benimar look to be making good coachbuilt vans for the UK.
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When asked, most dealers didn't even know the first thing about the payload for any given MH we were interested in. OK, don't expect them to know everything about every single MH...
It's hardly difficult for any given MH to have the base axle weights available in its promotional brochures, from which prospective purchasers may do a bit of quick arithmetic to decide if there is sufficient payload for their requirements. As a rough guide I would think that any MH that quotes a payload below 500Kg should be viewed with suspicion.
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l have the Autotrail 625 Tribute high line, l had mine weighed on a weighbridge cost ten quid with all l need for a site pitch plus wind out awning and bike rack full tank of fuel 1/2 tank of water plus myself, less clothes and food it weighed 3.200 KG, l also had each axle weighed front and rear, the certificate is carried in the van. We have two electric bikes each weighing 25 KG each Golf clubs 2 sets 15 kg and two push trolleys 7 KG leaving 228 KG spare, more than enough left for food and other essentials. My Motorhome is 6.2 meters in length, my advice is to get the dealer to get it weighed empty, l think you will be surprised how much you will have. We had a caravan before we struggled to get the weight with having just 150kg to use, no chance with the bikes on board, hence changing to a motor home
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so, if i read this post right, the above MH was weighed with no passenger (75kg), half a tank of water (50kg), no clothes or bedding (30kg....these are surprisingly heavy) or food 10kg incl tins.... or mention of pots pans, cutlery/crockers or electrical items (kettles, toaster, ipad, pc) perhaps another 20kg..185kg of the 'spare' 228kg.
add in tools and other sundries and the van is now pretty close to fully loaded.
take into account that the bikes are slung out on a bike rack well behind the rear axle (no rear storage so where do the golf clubs and trolleys go...?) and this might be closer to its limit than might seem possible when putting aginst the earlier weighed (partially empty) figures...
i would be tempted to fill the water tank, get the OH onboard with the bikes golf gear and everything else like bedding, pots pans etc and get another 'real life' weighing....
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Isnt the most important thing to think about is the age thing ? 70
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There are many things to think about in order to remain legal. Not exceeding the stipulated weights for the vehicle and having the correct driving licence entitlement being only two of them. Infringing these, as well as committing other breaches of the law, could land you in court and invalidate insurance so I’m not sure there is a 'most' important thing.
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