A question for the club; axles and brakes
I understand that the subject of Alko Axle Problems was raised at the recent National Rally Technical Q&A session on bank holiday Monday. Is it correct that there are insufficient complaints raised for the club to react in support of its members?
As individual sufferers of collapsed axles it is difficult to coordinate action, the club however is in a unique position where by it could survey the problem amongst it's members, far as I am aware there has been no mention of the axle issue in the club magazine or any reaction to the many threads on CT on the subject.
I have done my own survey, CT has 33 members that have reported axle issues in various threads over the last 4 years. The FB group "Bailey axle problems family" has around 150 reported axle problems 44 of which have been reported to CAMC technical. I would also comment that it is not just Bailey with a problem.
Can I ask what is the threshold of reports at which the club would take up members concerns?
As a sufferer of the axle problem and having had a goodwill replacement I have raised this issue with CAMC (acknowledged but no reply to subsequent email) and DVSA, (much to and fro emails but not a safety issue!) I find this very surprising, if my car tyres rubber the wheel arches it would fail an MOT. What is needed is a recall on axles and also the current issue of brake problems which is across all makes on vans mid 2017 onwards!!! Again no mention of this from the club. Does the club not think these safety issues are worthy of informing members?
Analysing the reported fails on the FB group something drastic happened to Alko/Bailey axles in 2015 see image below.
Moderator Edit:
If you require an answer to your question, you'd be advised to contact the club directly as it's unlikely you'll receive an answer on this forum.
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Good for you viatorum. The Club appears to be so in hoc to the good will of the caravan manufacturers that it chooses to ignore the problems which its members experience. I realized recently that the magazine no longer publishes surveys of members' experiences with their cars and caravans. I wonder why
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There are many more questions unanswered than answered.
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I hope you aren’t holding your breath, waiting for an answer viatorem? You will turn blue.
“Is it correct that there are insufficient complaints raised for the club to react in support of its members?
I think it wouldn’t be reasonable for the club to respond to every whinge from a impertinent member. I assume that they apply the following formula, before taking action.
action level = n+1 where n = the total numbers of members.
Seriously I feel for you and everyone else who is in the same situation. I know of at least 2 Bailey’s that have required axle replacements. It seems strange that it is a problem that predominately afflicts Bailey’s
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There's a couple of reasons Bailey show early onset axle failure, firstly they are designed with a low wheel arch clearance primarily because of the flat top to the wheel arch, secondly they use full profile tyres not 70 series. Also lack of headroom on axle spec combined with manufacturers trying to minimise mtplm leading to unintentional overloading by some. I also suspect Alko had a duff batch of rubber 2015/16. Other brands are now suffering but can go undetected as there's ample clearance thus taking longer to show a problem.Ultimately the rubber suspension will shear and the wheel will disappear up into the wheel arch as there is no bump stop to prevent this.
Definitely and sadly my last UK built LV as the replacement axle is heading the same way! My other van a 10 year old Adria has a faultless chassis ,so it's not me overloading nor any issues with my previous 6 uk built vans.
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Ouch, sorry to hear that. I believe 2015 vans showed the peak of this axle problem, it's probable that a manufacturing fault was the cause. You could still raise it with the club and DVSA, it may help them get enough stats to take it further. A recall would be good!
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I joined the club as soon as we returned to caravanning. From previous experience I had found that the club had looked after its members.
since returning I am at a total loss to understand how they can claim to look after members interests.
in 3 years they have not printed anything about constant issues with brakes, axles and leaks.
Prices on club sites regularly are more expensive than commercial sites.
Moderator
please remind the board what their job is,
its to represent us the members
!!!well that’s me banned then !!!
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Well you were all right sadly no answer or even acknowledgment from the club of my email or on here.
Despite the claim in the CT header
It will also enable us to respond to your questions, comments and to resolve those occasional grievances.
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Why does the club need any members to raise concerns over a known issue with caravans and motorhomes?
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I'm another person with a failed axle. 2015 Cadiz.
And my friend has had his fail. 2015 Vigo.
Bailey have refused to help either of us. We're both meticulous about loading. I suspect that for both of us, had we been more cavalier with weights, the axle would have failed within the three years, instead of later.
There is very clearly an issue with 2015 axles, but Bailey refuse to help.
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Even if it's the AlKo axle that fails it's still a Bailey problem. Fact is that they didn't have a robust design that prevents tyre to wheelarch contact even when an axle fails. Besides, by all accounts the clearance between the two was much too small even in the condition as designed. It was never capable of accomodating snow chains which are required in some countries, even on caravans, but then maybe they never expected anyone to go touring with their caravans on the Continent in winter.
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One of my theory's why axle failure has come to light in the years around 2015/2016 is the advent of the fixed bed models.My 2016 axle failed and repaired, but when you look at the distance between the axle and the rear of the van,I do not believe these axles can take all the boomphing and bounce our roads are giving it.
Gone are the days now when you could load the van,and caravanners now realise that the low loading margins, are giving the manufacturers an easy get out clause when things go wrong.
When things do go wrong ,there is no one out there that assist us caravanners Not the NCC,VOSA,the two Clubs do anything
What we will never know is,are Alko building axles to the manufacturers spec,or are the manufacturers requesting Alko build a lighter cheaper axle.
With the future of suitable tow cars uncertain, and the issues of axle failures so prominent it is almost like the manufacturers are assisting the government in reducing Caravans on the road.
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The flat top wheel arch was a serious design error for a start if that is the reason why there is inadequate clearance between the tyre and the wheel arch. The responsible product engineer should have been aware of the possible full axle travel. Secondly, the tyre aspect ratio, whether 70 series or full profile, should not have any bearing on the rolling radius of the tyre. The wheel size must be chosen to compensate for a lower tyre aspect ratio.
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I think you are correct Lutz. I have spoken to a few people on forums and elsewhere, the probable reason is that there was a design error. Looking at the Alko information available a B1600 axle fully loaded the swing arm should be horizontal, at this horizontal position there is available further 60mm of suspension travel. Alko recommend a further 20mm of safety clearance. The Bailey design appears to have 25/40mm of available travel from horizontal swing arm position to the wheel arch This means that at full 60mm deflection the wheel arch will be hit and intruded into by 20-35mm. I believe that the DVSA are aware of this and as there is nothing of structural concern are not deeming it a safety issue. Which seems odd, if my car exhibited wheel arch wear from the tyres hitting I am fairly sure there would be a problem at MOT time.
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I have a 2014 Bailey Cadiz and I have just been made aware of the possible collapse of the suspension ... can anyone advice me of what I should be looking for ? ... what should the clearance be between the top of the tyre and the wheel arch ? At the moment I can only just get my fingers in the gap and it looks like the tyre has been rubbing on the wheel arch
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check the post above yours which mensions clearance measurements. I wonder what the percentage is of those caravans that are fitted with shock absorbers as they would be taking most of the hammering from our potholed roads. Alko can do what they want as have the biggest percentage of the market.
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Wouldnt it be cheaper to send axle to be refurbed ?
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I am new to this thread and have I guess been a bit of an ostrich on this issue. I have a Bailey Unicorn 3 Cadiz, 2015 model which in servicing between year 3 and 4 the wheel clearance has reduced and then in year 4 to 5 dropped slightly further again with the dealer telling me that if it drops any further that it will be unsafe to use.
My caravan has hardly been used since new with about 2 outings a year, although in the past 2 years it has only been used once as I am worried about towing it now given the known issues; I am positive that it has not been overloaded and the Bailey dealer who services confirms that what is in it would not be overloading it so it would appear that mine too has a fault.
The dealer provided a rough quotation of £3,000 to repair or replace the axle but until they take it apart can't confirm exactly which is worrying. With this in mind I am very keen to know where you took yours at £1300 as this would be far more preferable given that the warranty expired just before the axle started failing. Or if anyone knows a good place to obtain a quote for such a repair that doesn't cost the earth.
I am in North Gloucestershire but happy to take it elsewhere to get it sorted if it saves me a fortune and makes the van safe to use again.
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Individually it can be difficult to get any redress. Organisations that you thought would help don't always seem too keen. However, the consumers organisation Which that campaigns on behalf of consumers is interested if there are sufficient numbers.
You don't have to be a member to contact them! You can e-mail them: which@which.co.uk
If enough of us contact them, hopefully they will make the investment in time and energy to help. It would be nice to have an organisation that is impartial and can look at issues, caravans, motorhomes etc from an objective viewpoint.
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see; Al-Ko Axle suspension failure (Bailey), this post is from 2018 but replies are dated in 2020,
This problem has been going on for years and I am convinced its a design fault, applies to any make of van with the ALKO axle built after 2012 ?
I would also say that its not clear to me if its the fault of the axle or the layout of the van, ie too much weight caused by appliances etc fitted on one side.
The axle however appears to be inadequate as most failures are attributed to overloading by the user!
Ours was a Swift 2013, I did communicate with the clubs technical department but made no progress.
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Without going into details all over again, but I think the issue was more one of a batch of axles being manufactured with substandard components than a design fault. If it were a design fault it would have affected all caravan manufacturers using the same or similar AlKo axles. Besides, axles aren't designed with such a low margin of safety that, say, a 20% overload condition will unconditionally result in axle failure.
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Lutz
Agree but...
Not sure if you are aware that this does't only effect just one brand of caravan.
When my van had its failure,the suspension rubber had squashed out of the hub.
Again without going over old ground,it is always these longer fixed bed models,I have yet to hear of a 2 berth or twin axle with suspension failure.
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Having been a victim of axle failure and over the last couple of years having studied and discussed this a some depth and with relevant opinions of informed people, I sumarise in the following for what its worth.
The axle problem mostly affects Bailey Unicorn single axle caravans 2015-2019. The symptom is excessive suspension deflection/abrasion due to in most cases minor overloading. There are two primary reasons this problem. Firstly there is minimal headroom between MTPLM Kg and axle rating Kg, secondly and of more concern that the design of the axle location and the wheelbox leave insufficient clearance for maximum suspension travel. This is why the wheelbox suffers abrasion with a marginal overload condition. For example 2015 - 2017 vans have approx 65mm wheel to wheelbox clearance unloaded but 90mm maximum travel. 2017 -2019 vans ( or warranty replacement axles) have approx 75mm clearance unloaded still with 90mm maximum travel, 2020 vans have oddly enough approx 90mm clearance unloaded. Flat topped wheelbox doesn't help either.
The threshold for axle failure is deemed to be <25mm tyre to wheelbox by Bailey/Alko
If out of warranty or as most owners have found Bailey won't help, most mobile engineers can change an axle and these chaps can refurb , http://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/index.php?c=al-ko-axle-repair
There are axle failures on other brands of van at a much lower %. Usually the suspension rubber fails leading to the suspension sinking and not recovering if the van is unloaded.
The squealing brake issue and thread stripping issue affects all brands (yes I've had that too) believed to be a change of supplier for brake drums and shoes, cheaper no doubt.
With regard to the moderator comment above I have approached both clubs with respect to this but it seems they are not willing to support members suffering with this problem which by now must be many hundreds.
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