New member and site booking
Comments
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Ray, all discussions about folk not getting pitches when they want them are greeted with the same comments....book earlier....
so, folk take the advice and do this...
i had the same issues as the OP, so I decided to book earlier myself, when required.
I don't usually book at all, we don't usually know when we are heading off, but have done on a few occasions where I wanted to be at a specific site, again not a Usual occurrence.
i did book Chatsworth (one booking) last year, hoping to be able to take it up, but circumstances conspired against us and I cancelled....I'm sorry but that's life....and someone else got the booking.
i also made two bookings for BW, not knowing which one I would be able to take....as it happened, I took one and cancelled the other. again, someone else got a late pick up.
if that's block booking then guilty as charged, but as has been said before, the club is happy to allow bookings to be cancelled within the prescribed period.
this year, we've not been near a club site since returning from Portugal at end of March....but we have used a commercial, a CL, a CS and a C&CC site later this week....they all have different booking 'systems' and we go along with them, too...
CC has conditions in its booking systems, late cancelling is one of them, no deposits is another.
either (or none) of these might change, at which time I'm sure we will all abide by any new rules.
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Ray
We don't know yet but you could get your way with regard to deposits as we know there is going to be a new improved booking system and the Club would not confirm one way or another whether that included deposits!
Whether people book long and cancel late but still within the rules is a sort of six of one and half a dozen of another sort of thing. That late cancellation is my blessing as I rarely book more than four weeks ahead. I just don't know how anyone can book a year in advance and have absolute certainty that they will be in a position to fore fill that booking. I suspect if there were deposits the number of very advanced bookings would fall substantially, nothing like money up front to focus the mind!!! The trouble is there is no perfect booking system, they all have their faults. Whichever way the booking system goes the one thing that can be guaranteed there will be a full discussion about it on here
David
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For balance
Michelle and myself both have full time jobs mine is permanent nights, Michelle has three shift patterns as well as a weekend rota.
We book at least 9 months in advance for 3 of our 4 annual holidays, I have a booking with the club now for a week in October made several months ago.
We pretty much live for the weekends, hence our seasonal pitch which is for weekend use, but before we had this we would book around a dozen weekends at the same site, commercial, deposits taken, this site would also be fully booked at weekends leading upto and in peak periods. I've witnessed people arriving on spec and been turned away!
The site I have my seasonal pitch stopped doing touring, because weekends became manic and too much to cope with.
I doubt very much a change in the booking system (deposits) would free up vast amount of pitches for people to book closer to their dates, as demand for certain sites will at the moment always be high.
My own reason for joining this year was a week in Sandringham in February, I didn't and dont care about the cost, including the membership fee, I'm quite happy to have paid the combined sum for that weeks stay, as my demands at that time were met.
I've also picked up that the younger adults are placing more emphasis on work life balance, so perhaps a sprinkling of more leisure time to use is a contributing factor too.
In my opinion lack of weekend availability is a result not of a system of no deposits but of increased sales of caravans and Motorhomes and the time ability and will to use them.
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I don't like planning too far ahead but sometimes it is necessary usually when it is known choice is going to be limited or none existent if you leave it too late. Unlike those that chase cancellations, I cannot be bothered. If there is nothing available I look elsewhere just like you would in shopping for an item you find out of stock. As far as I am concerned the vender is the loser not me. Increasingly the Club is not getting my bookings. Over the last 3 years the proportion of my nights away at Club sites, which is already quite low, has been falling by an average of 2 percent a year. This year, so far, only 12 percent of my bookings have been on Club sites, last year it was 15 percent. I can only see this continuing because with bookings now being available a year in advance on a rolling basis, it is even harder to book a pitch at honey pot sites or if a weeekend is involved. If cancellations are taken up by others or are not a serious issue and the Club isn't loosing money as a result then there is no incentive for the Club to make changes. It is just some customers will end up frustrated. The big question for the Club is how many are like me and look elsewhere and would the introduction of deposits or even stiffer penalties make any improvement to the bottom line.
peedee
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I have been retired for nearly 10 years. Our normal booking practice over the past few years is to book the whole years trips in January whilst it is wet cold and icy outside. We have pending medical appointments etc and school holidays to hand so we can isolate prior commitments and off we go, sorting the whole year's trips in a couple of weeks. We book both club's sites , 5 van sites, and private sites, it matters not if deposits are required up front so introducing deposits will have no impact on our behaviour. In all this time we have only ever cancelled once, we had to abandon 4 days to come home for a funeral before returning to where we left off. Personally I don't think deposits will have the effect on availability that some imagine.
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As I have discovered with the C&CC deposits won't stop popular sites filling up well in advance. The demand is now so high that I've just booked a year ahead to make sure we can visit a particular site at a certain time and this includes minimum bookings.
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agree with W&M, an increasing number of folk vying for the same number of pitch places....
before retirement, we did as you do, holiday wise (but nothing to with caravans or MHs) and booked well in advance...
these days, apart from the odd specific cruise, our 'holidays' (those that involve a plane) are often spur of the moment things.
our two long sojourns into Europe each year (with the van) are only approximations in the diary and outbound ferries are generally booked just a few days before we actually leave....never book the return...
for some, I'm sure this is a haphazzard way to go about things but with a few family 'things' going on at the moment, we plug in trips at short(ish) notice to fit the vacant space.
if that space might feature a popular club site then I get my booking finger out, rare granted, but it does happen. if I can't then take it up for whatever reason, so be it....
Justus and Peedee do their things in different ways as described above, so do we...
despite loving our van trips away, i couldn't be beholden to a diary of stays mapped out a year ahead....for one thing, really crap weather would drive me nuts...enough to cancel? possibly.
we are (probably) going away on Friday, but not if the weather is bad. will leave it another day.....
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To give insight to how a year in advance and certainty of filling the booking works for us.
If you have children at senior school, following a recent case, you can no longer take children out of school without sanction. In our case the year ahead is proving invaluable. We know the dates of school holidays and are able to book a site for the ones we want. This recent half term saw us take up a booking for a serviced pitch at Black Knowl. We had taken up a booking last year made a year ahead purely as that was the first year sanctions around taking our daughter out of school had been imposed. We have booked for next year.
Another example for us. We lost a parent in 2017, at Easter. We made a promise to visit family and take the surviving parent out over Easter each year going forward. The exact date doesn't mark his passing as Easter changes annually, however school holidays always include Easter. The year ahead has enabled us to keep that promise.
There is an annual event that we get tickets for each year, so we book the site in the grounds of the venue each year a year in advance. Although this year we have another holiday booked to visit family overseas, so we released the pitch for others. It'll be the first event we have missed in all the time its been on, but the alternate holiday and opportunity to fulfil a 'supplies' as we walk into the family members home early one morning soon, is worth it.
That holiday has been paid for in full some 14 weeks in advance, and had a deposit required on booking.
The CAMC system with year ahead released monthly is working for us, better than the old frenzy day in December.
If a deposit scheme is imposed by CAMC we would expect to see a reduction in fees to take account of the money on deposit for a year, and last minute booking rates to be lower than normal, just as on our other holidays.
To clarify that last bit. Our upcoming holiday is a cruise. When bookings are released only full fares are available. At 9 months out discounted fares become available. At 14 weeks further discounted fares are made available. At 5 weeks further discounted fares are let to fill unbooked places. We used a 3rd party to book, got a further 15% discount and on board spend and car park at Southampton.
When we take long haul holidays, we fly Business Class where the more sectors you fly, the cheaper the fare.
So many different models than applied by the CAMC of increase fees and extend peak periods of highest fees. Hence we tend not to do summer school holidays on CAMC sites these last 3 years, It's more the principle of raising fees for families in fixed holiday times we object to, not the cost as evidenced by our other holidays costs. We have, as often put on CT, gone elsewhere as we don't like the fee structure.
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Normally very much the same here Justus as far as usually booking the year ahead. Not keen on the rolling 12 month programme though. For us it was easier to sit down in late november and plan a few tours and book all on frenzy day. The rolling programme is likely to catch us out
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I think W&M hit the nail on the head with -
“In my opinion lack of weekend availability is a result not of a system of no deposits but of increased sales of caravans and Motorhomes and the time ability and will to use them.”
I’ve been saying for a while that LVing has become a victim of its own success.
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The late availability list seems to be showing about 3000 vacant pitches on Club sites this weekend - but I lost count before I got to the bottom of the list.
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Neither do I, I'm currently using up bookings made a year ago and have a year's booking in advance too.
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but if that happens, is that still advantageous to the club? or rather even does it matter to the club?
those (sometimes 'late') cancellations will be taken up by those that can and sites still showing good occupancy rates? Income still high? remember when the club had deposits the number of no shows was higher and more empty pitches that could have been taken up?
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it is easier to copy the table into excel, use search and replace to get rid of the word pitches and then let excel do the adding up
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For ten years we booked our four week Summer holiday a year in advance, paid for it up front as well quite happily. Five pitch CL, so if we didn’t book, the likelihood of not getting a pitch on our favourite CL for the full four weeks was extremely high. I could take my A/L when I wanted, OH was on a rolling rota. Once I had booked, kind CL owner allowed me to tweak dates to suit. This Summer break was all we ever booked, all other times we just headed off after a phone call to see what was free.
If the Club decides to use deposits, they will have to be meaningful and concentrate the mind. The previous £5 up front was a tad pathetic, even so long ago. The seriously committed will pay, (and use holiday insurance if required). However, I think it will alienate a fair percentage of the membership who like things as they are now.
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Totally agree. We've just booked a small private site in the Forest of Dean for 5 nights in August, deposit required, no problem. We recently stayed on a couple of CLs one which wanted a deposit and one which didn't. The things is that the dates we book in advance are dates we want to go and know we are free. I really dislike this idea of making bookings "just on the off chance" knowing that they probably won't be honoured..
The only time we've had to cancel a CL I felt so guilty that I sent the owner the full payment anyway.
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As I have said before there is only one occasion when I have booked on the off chance. That was at a time when we did not book so far in advance. We started booking earlier simply because we would, as now, plan a route but then have problems getting the sites that we wanted for specific dates along the route. So one February I saw that the popular Braithwaite fold, then CC, had 5 nights availability at end August/Early September. We had not planned the September break. When we did plan in April we decided that we would use it as part of a tour; otherwise I would have let it go..
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Surely that is even more reason to make sure pitch usage and for that matter membership is maximised. Is that actually happening?
I've seen the 2018 accounts and while bookings and site income are up on 2017 I have my doubts. Bookings can be up due to the introduction of the rolling system but what are cancellation levels like? Site income can be up simply because of pitch fee increases. Membership increase is small and certainly does not seem to reflect the much talked about growth in sales of leisure outfits.
peedee
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Well I would say the cancellation rate means nothing at the end of the day/year.season if those empty pitches are then re-booked? Which the current system seems to do and maximized, if you take the posters on here saying site full /only two empty pitches...
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The same thought occurred to me as I read PD’s post. What do cancellations matter? It’s wheels on pitches that count.
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If a site is full it doesn’t matter how well ‘membership is maximised’ there’s no room for more. Your theory just creates more upset members☹️. Money in beating money out in my book is a success to be applauded not questioned🤔
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Whether or not it’s advantageous to the club is irrelevant imv. For me, it’s all about a level playing field. If someone can’t get a pitch because someone has speculatively booked a pitch knowing full well they might/will cancel later on, that doesn’t seem right to me. Imagine (for instance) someone booking a pitch for 3 weeks (say) when they only want 1 week, is that fair? Not everyone can take up late cancellations. Don’t get me wrong, people will cancel for all sorts of reasons, and in the main, I’m sure it’s genuine, no problem with that. As I see it, the system is open to bad practice by some, to the detriment of others. I’m not for one moment suggesting it’s widespread, I hope it isn’t, as I said, it’s notional.
I said it before, the system suits me fine the way it is, I just want it to be fair to all.
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Freddy, whichever way you look at it, we all have the same opportunities to book and even to cancel. Therefore, it is fair.
The club is in the business of selling pitch nights and, if they succeed in doing that, they aren’t going to bother too much about anything else.
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+1
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well I really wouldn't know what your or anyone's intention, are so really it's a impossible question to answer.
But even if I knew it would not bother me. The rules apply to all, and so (imho) fair to all.
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