Kerb weight
I have noticed that some car manufacturers give two kerb weights.
One with the car empty.
One with the car, fluids, 90% fuel and 75Kg driver.
Which should be used when looking for an 85% match?
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But the second one isn't according to the definition of kerbweight, as laid down in UK legislation. If it's with a 90% full tank and a 75kg allowance for the driver and sundry items then it is according to the definition of either mass in service or actual mass.
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Many thanks for the three clear replies.
They are most helpful and appreciated.
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But actually, if the manufacturer is quoting mass in service, then that figure could be less than kerbweight, especially if the car is loaded with lots of factory-fitted extras, even though it includes 75kg for the driver. This is because mass in service does not include those extras, but kerbweight does.
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The only figure the police and insurance company go by is the maximum towing capacity so that's what I look at when buying a car
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But, CG, the max towing weight refers to the car’s towing ability in certain conditions and not to a safe or sensible weight for towing a huge white box at 60 on the open road.
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Just pointing out the easy legal position as on this forum the replies about different weights and ratios gets a bit confusing
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Hi folks, I've read this thread and a few others and I understand the issues and legalities surrounding towing and 'matching' . I am due to collect a Bailey Unicorn Valencia shortly and I'm now shopping for a suitable tow car. I am keen on the VW Passat Estate 2.0 l TDI 150. I don't think it a particularly heavy car but it seems to punch above it's weight in terms of towing. I believe that this car is commonly used to tow vans within its legal limit but well over the suggested 85% weight figure.?
I was wondering if this is common with tow cars? I see the Passat has previously won awards for towing heavier vans than I would have expected. I am beginning to wonder if the vehicles characteristics, profile, equipment etc are more relevant than the 85 % weight ratio ?
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I have always gone with towing capacity and so do the authorities, just go for it
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I can tell you live in the flatlands. 😀😀😀
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I find this subject really confusing and a complete mess in legal terms ...it's about time someone got to grips with it.
I can go to different sites and find all give me an answer that adds to the confusion. My V5C mass in service is to me... the only legal document in my humble opinion.
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The 85% guide is just that. It has no legal standing. See my earlier post on pg1 re safe and sensible v legal.
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No mess in legal terms max towing capacity that's it
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Why the tow limit is calculated on its ability to start off on a 12% or 8% gradient around times, other factors are also used.
So provided you tow below the max tow limit the rig will be capable towing up hills.
I would still tow below a 100% ratio with a caravan however, as the limit is a trailer limit, not a caravan limit.
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Lutz I think you had a different view some years back when you mentioned the the V5c was the only document that could be used in a dispute.
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Unless you have a copy of the Certificate of Conformity (apparently not all manufacturers pass it on to the customer unless requested) the V5c is the only document that you will have available in case of a dispute and it only quotes the mass in service, but there is no piece of legislation for which details of mass in service are in any way relevant, so there is no reason for a dispute. The Certificate of Conformity may also quote the actual mass and that figure comes closest to the definition of kerbweight except that, unlike kerbweight, it includes 75kg for the driver and sundry items.
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I find the definition of kerb weight throughout the industry differs in its calculations as well as the websites which try to match cars against caravans. I have had various differences in mine. My XC60 can vary as much as 100kg.... so my V5c is, is in my mind the most accurate and the figure I use.
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There can only be one true definition of any term, whether we are talking about kerbweight or anything else. Otherwise, if there is no common understanding, it makes a mockery of the whole thing and you might as well forget that there is even a piece of legislation which attempts to lay down a standard.
The figure in the V5c is always mass in service and by virtue of its definition it will nearly always be less than the actual kerbweight. A 100kg variance between mass in service and kerbweight is quite normal. Differences of up to 150kg are not uncommon.
Therefore, if you use the V5c figure, you will always be on the conservative side.
I agree that some sources refer to mass in service as kerbweight, but then the figures cannot be treated as being accurate and this accounts for the 100kg variance that you have come across.
Mass in service can be the same between two vehicles of the same model but their kerbweights can be different. Kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle and should therefore always be linked to a chassis number. Mass in service is more generic and can cover a whole range of vehicles of the same model.
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