Reverse Polarity in France
We have just returned from a trip to the South of France.
We stayed at 9 sites, 8 of which had international electric hook ups.The french sockets presented no problem but were only offered at 3 sites.
At three sites we had a reverse polarity message on our habitation control panel.
At one site which offered the alternative of a French style socket, I switched to the French socket which eliminated the reverse polarity message. [I can only assume whoever wired up the international socket got their wires crossed, or did not care].
At the other 2 sites we had no choice but to use the electricity as normal despite the reverse polarity warning. Neither of the site managers understood or showed any interest in my problem.
So: does reverse polarity matter and are there any real problems with ignoring it???
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In France they use double pole switching ie both live and neutral are isolated together.In the UK we use single pole,ie just the live.
However on my particular caravan on the socket outlets,they are not even switched at all,so no isolation at all.
I see many people post about RP and as long as you treat it with respect it does not matter.My only concern would be an open toaster.
Many people wrap themselves up with RP, and to me a missing earth is far more important and dangerous.
You could make up a short lead and adapt it for RP,just make sure it is clearly labelled.
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As I understand it, and I may be wrong, in France most switches act on both the live and neutral wires (double pole switches). Consequently it doesn't matter which wire goes to which terminal when the wiring is done. I don't think it is done carelessly or incorrectly.
Because it is a common situation in France, not a fault, many of us make up a short piece of cable with a plug and socket on the ends. One of these, and it doesn't matter which, is connected 'wrongly'. This then corrects the 'problem' when used in conjunction with your normal EHU hook-up cable.
As DD says, it doesn't affect anything within the van providing you switch off the power completely before doing any maintenance on the electrical circuits as just because an appliance is switched off doesn't mean that it is not 'live' via the neutral conductor. This is because UK switching tends to be only on the 'live' conductor not on both live and neutral. (Perhaps it is the UK that has it wrong).
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In the UK we normally have single pole switching so the live/brown is usually disconnected when switched off and we keep to the colour and correct pin terminal, but in France they don't care as double pole switching is the norm and their two wires can end up in any of the two configurations, nothing wrong with that.
It's only when we Brits go abroad, and if reversed can have an effect in our caravan/motorhome if we fancy a bit of electrical repair. Such as changing a mains lamp thinking its isolated just by switching it off or digging some bread out of the toaster without pulling the plug etc.
Reverse polarity does not create a danger to the vehicles or the appliances, only to the unwary person that may not be aware that a voltage can be present on an appliance even if switched off at the socket.
I use this simply because I have an extra socket, and marked for RP.
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If you are using the two pin adaptor and get a reverse polarity warning just turn it over (180 deg) and the problem will usually disappear.
I have done that in Germany but in France they use a male earth pin which prevents turning the plug over so you either have to accept it or correct it by using a "reversing cable".
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No need to take my word as is documented here. https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/e/ as opposed to these used in Germany and Austria https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/f/ It might depend whether you use aires or sites but all campsites I have used in France which have not changed to the European standard CEE17 (blue) sockets have type E sockets. It would agree that it would be far easier if France did use the F type socket because it would do away with the need to make up a RP lead as many people do. The plugs illustrated could be more difficult to turn round because they are in an L configuration, far better to have the type pictured below which is easy to reverse.
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My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) was that it could create a danger if the appliance had an internal wiring fault.
With live and neutral reversed, when we switch the socket off, we are disconnecting the neutral, and the live is still live within the appliance if still plugged in.
If said appliance has some fault within the wiring, it could still be live to the touch. and flow to earth via ourselves.
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Did you have any problems on any of the nine sites? If so, there's your answer.
Reverse polarity is common in France, because of the differences in wiring not because anyone has made a mistake. Reverse polarity can be found on campsites, in hotels and gites and in our house in the south of France, and it's only apparently perceived as a problem in campsites. No one asks if they should take a reverse polarity lead before plugging in their hairdryer in the Four Season George V in Paris (but I bet if you checked you would find it there too!). Mind you, if you were staying there a hairdryer (and even a hairdresser) would probably be provided!
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But if you lived in France you would have it in your home.
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Not exactly RP but more worryingly, some years ago I had to use a recently purchased French to Blue socket adapter. After plugging in I then went to turn on the gas cylinder, I had a sudden severe tingling sensation. Checked my plug in tester and found neutral and earth reversed. Found the adapter had been wired wrongly. Always check the supply, it could have been a disaster.
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I moved into my present UK home 31 years ago. When intalling some additional sockets in the garage about 14 years ago I casually checked for live on the exising and found that had been reversed where it came into the main fusebox in the garage
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If reversed polarity doesn’t matter as most on here seem to be suggesting. Why bother to fit mcb’s and rcd’s in the first place? If they are not needed abroad, then why are they needed, in the U.K.? 99.999% of the time they are unnecessary on the 0.001% of the time they might just save your life a bit like a seat belt. It’s been over 20 years since I’ve needed one of those, yet I still wear one. In the unlikely event of an appliance becoming faulty, then in the case of reversed polarity you could become the path to earth with nothing to cut the power off good luck!
It’s not rocket science to make a short lead to reverse the polarity, whether strictly speaking they may break regulations but seem a sensible pragmatic.
Even better would be if the manufactures as a matter of course fitted dual pole isolators then reversed polarity doesn’t really matter.
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Why have them at home then? They are a safety feature and diagnose lots of other electrical issues. Your modern caravan is then protected by modern technology which didn't exist in the past. Amateurs making up their own reverse lead was never a good idea even when caravans weren't fitted with this protective technology.
Someone, on another forum, reversed the wrong wires in their home-made reverse-polarity corrector lead................. and fortunately took a photograph to ask 'Is this correct?' before plugging it in. Don't mess with electricity is my opinion. Rely on the protection already built in to your caravan, not on a home made and potentially dangerous lead.
There are always polarised views on this issue and you'll have to work very hard to get the two sides to agree!0 -
I think that you have rather missed my point. If you hook up to reversed polarity supply then you are bypassing the safety aspects of a single pole Rcd / Mcb. You wouldn’t, find that acceptable in the U.K. but plenty on here post that it is ok abroad, it don’t think that it is.
Regarding making a crossover lead, I am not an electrician but I am capable of wiring a plug. It is for each individual to assess there level of competence, to complete such a task.
Do I personally use a cross over lead? No, because our caravan is fitted with dual pole breakers rather than the inferior single pole breakers that were/ are fitted to most vans.
Btw what do you mean by protective technology beyond the Rcd mcb’s?
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Boff Reverse polarity will not in itself cause a trip on a mcb, however even in reverse polarity if a fault develops on an appliance an imbalance between live and earth will cause a trip.
I once decorated a kitchen and found an extra socket added, when tested,it was found to be RP this had been like that since the property had been built.Even though it was in RP for all that time it was still protected by an mcb.
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I quite agree it is highly unlikely to cause a problem. But I've seen some very dodgy wiring on French bollards, some with no earth, and reversed polarity is very common - and this is with both French style and Euro blue sockets.
It is the work of a moment to check with a neon indicator. I have changed pitch because of the lack of an earth and as it's so easy I always correct reverse polarity with an adaptor where it is found.
I accept the risk is small but why not eliminate it altogether? But as Val says, agreement over this is about as likely as it is over B****t.
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I understand that RP will not in itself cause mcb to trip. But in the case of either a fault or foolish behaviour. If the blue wire is carrying the positive charge and that charge is going through you to Earth then the single pole mcb isn’t going to trip because it is no seeing any current. A rcd may trip but if it’s only switching off the brown wire which should be positive but not again the current is still going to flow through you to Earth. A dual pole breaker disconnects both sides of the circuit so is inherently much safer. I don’t know if dual breakers are now fitted to new U.K. vans? If not in my opinion they should be.
PS I know that the risk is low, that is obvious because an mcb/rcb rarely triggers when the polarity is correct. But the consequence of the low risk could be very serious.
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When this topic comes up there are always polarised (sorry
) views on whether a polarity tester and cross-over adapter are necessary.My view is simple ---
If there is no problem using a van in France with reversed polarity electricity feed then using an adapter will not do any harm, cost me very little to make and I am as safe as before
If there is a problem and I don’t use one then I don’t want to contemplate what could happen
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When in France, we found out we had a reverse polarity hook up when hubby started to erect the awning. Got such a belt of off touching the van side he fell off the step. A plug in tester showed which wires to swop over and the issue was solved. When using the two pin adaptors we have one wired up correctly and the other with the wires changed over.
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Yes he was very lucky, its not just live and neutral they can have issues with over there. When we spoke to the owner the next day he came to check the supply, he tut tutted and shrugged his shoulders and said he would get his electrician over to wire it up correctly, a few hours later an old guy on a bike arrived (don't know who was older the guy or the bike) and re wired the bollard correctly. We then had to re wire our cable back to how it was to start with!!!
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