Motorhomes & grey waste
Comments
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edit: Brue, you just beat me to the same point....
irrespective of people's preference for cars, caravans or MHs, the issue is whether the club understands what makes a good, easy to use, well located MHSP, and it seems that, in many cases it doesn't.
while it has finally got the message that lifting solid manhole covers is difficult for many, they are also blooming awkward even for those who can lift them.
so, a new design was called for but the well tried, tested and liked design used all over Europe (where the surrounding catchment area meant easy, quicker positioning and a full collection of all the waste) wasn't deemed to be the one that the club wanted to use....
their design is fine, in as far as it goes....the grill is much wider than before but there is no surrounding sloping area to ensure 'poor aimers' don't cause problems.
..therefore, it takes longer to line up the van, especially if there is only the driver.
our van has a hose that can be attached to allow a good aim, so we do 'use our brains'....but, again, this adds time to what should be a simple process.
surely the club doesn't want the MHSP clogged up with vans either struggling to lift covers or shuffling about to position the van exactly where needed prior to pulling the handle?
its nothing to do with who wants to tow or not, the size of a caravan or whether anyone can cycle, it's about designing and implementing a proper MHSP with an open grill, a decent surrounding catchment and located sensibly to avoid congestion and multiple trips round a one way system.
for the market leader in caravan and MH sites I wouldn't expect this to be too much of an ask.....
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On the majority of sites the MWP seem to be situated in front of the toilet block, there are a few exceptions. I imagine this is for the reason you mention that it is a more convenient place for connection to the main services. On a couple of sites the new open grill waste points are away from the toilet block. Seacroft and Brecon spring to mind. Providing the main services are at hand I doubt there is much difference in cost. At Seacroft the MWP was installed alongside all the new serviced pitches so given everything was being built from scratch it may have cost less than trying to convert a point near a toilet block? I think having the MWP away from the toilet block is a good idea as there is no conflict of use of the space.
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I agree with you that facilities are on some sites can be dificult to access for some and the new MV waste disposal points are very good and far superior than on most other companies in the UK, ,the solid metal cover were a few years ago replaced with open grills,until a "member"took the club to court when she broke her ankle crossing one ,when the solid covers were again fitted, if we are on a pitch anywhere near the big new grills with the sloping sides i wiil empty my waist in them as it is all on the level, but it still does not make the poor design of waste outlet on most motor caravans any moreore acceptable, what about all the other places in the UK that do not have such good facilities
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while it has finally got the message that lifting solid manhole covers is difficult for many, they are also blooming awkward even for those who can lift them.
And not to mention Health and Safety considerations. The idea that in the work place you would be allowed use the same sort of access with no lifting assistance would I am sure get lots of firms into trouble!!!
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David, as Brue and I pointed out earlier, the new MHSP at Hillhead is away from the toilet blocks (at the top of the site)....
it is well designed and has quite a lot of room but IMHO it is in the wrong place, necessitating at least one complete circuit of the site for every user, and for some, almost two circuits....
it seems the club just haven't given this element any thought or they are happy to be designing in more traffic flow, where the nature of choosing a pitch on CC sites with customers driving round to find one already causes issues.
HH has a particularly large entrance area and it would have been a relatively simple job to install the MHSP just inside the barrier but at the exit point...
thus, all those leaving can just go out the barrier and not do another circuit of the site....
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Earlier I praised the new MHSP at Fairoaks which is much easier to use with a decent grid not needing the lifting of back breaking covers. I did notice though that it seemed not to have a sensible dished area around the drain. It’s situated near the exit which is great if you’re on the way out.
It was far easier to use, except by those who couldn’t grasp the concept. None of the set ups I’ve seen, not even the very bad ones, can possibly have their inadequacies blamed on poor MH drain design. It’s down to the layout and construction of the MHSP every time.
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JV, there will always be a few among us who are hard of understanding.
That, though, does not excuse the club or any other organisation from doing a second class job. Do it properly or simply don’t bother at all.
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I think you need to have another look at Hillhead layout as where it has been installed it is wide enough to have a bit of a queue,but as Hillhead at peak holiday time is heaving with arrivals from early am it would course even more congestion in that area
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Here’s what I think is a great example of a very poor MHSP.
The drain is in the centre of the enclosure. You have to lift the lid and then squash in one side of the other without hitting either the fence or the taps and without putting a wheel down the drain hole, or squash in first and hope you’ve got enough room to lift the lid. I was stood by a wall so there’s no chance of using the grass area to manoeuvre.
It seems to me to be clear case of having been designed by someone who's no idea how MHs work.
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TW, how not to do it.....everything wrong....where does the next van wait when it is occupied?
i assume you wer stood in a dead end?
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here is a picture of the HH entrance area....the grass area in the centre of the picture could easily support a MHSP with MH easing to the right as they exit (so, no congestion), should they need to dump waste.
any MH which needs to return to site can turn right, avoid the twin arrivals lanes (just as a returning tow car does) and then return to their pitch.
what it would do is prevent all the leaving vans having to make an extra circuit of the site.
it would cost no more to build it in a sensible place than where it is now.
i don't know why you are so defensive of MHSP and their locations when all several posters are discussing is getting a good, easy to use design located where it causes the least obstruction and allows speedy exit if desired.
as DK suggested upthread, it may be that the club just decides on what's easiest for them rather than actually walking through the design and location to see if it delivers the best service to its customers....ie, the cheaper, easier option.
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Yes, a dead end with only a footpath in the bottom left corner of the pic which leads to the facility block.
It could be improved quite simply by replacing the lid with a grating and by removing the fence and tarmacing part of the grass. As for queuing vehicles, I guess they have to block the road or go away and try again later🙄.
I see what you mean about the grass area at HH. It looks to be a wasted space at present.
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It's not only the club that haven't got a clue.. Our Auto-sleeper van has the water filler on the one side and waste outlet on the other so many is the time I've had to fill up then turn the van round to empty the waste as most sites seem to favour putting the waste drain a couple of feet in front of the tap. I therefore get some looks if the MHSP is on a one way section as I usually have to go the wrong way to dump the waste....
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I think that whoever is designing the MHSP has little concept of the Motorhomer's needs.
Perhaps a trip to France from an Admin member, I volunteer to accompany them on a 'jolly', and a stay overnight at a few Aires might give them a better insight.
One of the problems in the UK is that they are adding waste water disposal points to existing structures while the French Aires were built from scratch and the Borne was/is an integral requirement and they build the site accordingly.
We were at a C&MC site last week and to empty the waste water tank it required lifting a heavy grate (heavy to me), driving over the deep gulley, disposing of the water, drive off, put grate back and move my MH which was by then blocking the roadway – not an easy operation when I'm not as agile as I was.
In France on most Aires (see picture) – drive over grate, pull handle, wait, push handle and away you go.
At least the Club is starting to improve facilities but for the price we pay to be on the sites then could I ask them to please get a move on …....
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Or this one where the whole concrete slab filters down to the drain in the middle.
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J, I have the water filler on the UK nearside but the waste outlet is on the offside..
however, I just line up for the waste point and the my hose is long enough to go to the opposite side if required... although with most club MHSPs are in a one way system which 'should' mean pulling to the nearside which makes filling easy.....as long as their is a waste point not too tight to the kerb we are usually ok.
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your photo, and Michael's show the fundamental difference between the European std waste point and the club's design....it's the surrounding sloping concrete area which allows for all MH waste pipe configurations and directs all water (even slightly misdirected water) straight down the drain.
the club design may well have the long drain (set transveresly to the approaching MH) but, having no sloping surround, requires the exact positioning of the MH tap.
yes, a flexible 'extension' to the tap an help with guidance but it just adds to the trickiness...
i'd be happy to 'jolly' around a few aires as a 'consultant'
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We have about a one foot length of fixed hose fitted to the tank outlet and it clips to the van sill. It just about reaches the floor. As we are a PVC, we don't carry any other waste hose as we have no outside lockers to store anything "dirty" . Such is the compromise of smaller motor-homes and everything lives inside the van. Full width grills on waste points are the way forward
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We have the same clipped up waste hose system as you, J2, but I reckon ours is nearer 2ft long when both clips are undone. We have two fresh water fillers - one each side of the van - one is the trigger fill system and the other a removable cap and bung in a hose job.
We carry a flat fresh water hose and some spare waste hose plus two collapsible buckets so all eventualities are catered for. Along with the levelling ramps, they travel at the very rear under the near side bunk and are accessible via the rear door if necessary.
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the club design may well have the long drain (set transveresly to the approaching MH) but, having no sloping surround, requires the exact positioning of the MH tap.
Exact? I think most of us are capable of positioning our motorhomes over a grill which must be a massive 3 feet by 10/12 foot wide? I think you have to accept that the Club have decided to do it that way which is perfectly acceptable I expect to 99.9% of Club motorhomers!!!
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I’m sure all are capable of positioning over a grid of that size, David, but not all are anywhere near that big. The new one at Fairoaks isn’t although it’s perfectly adequate.
Incidentally, who did you quote in bold type?
Edit: Spotted it at last. It was a section of BB’s post way up the page.
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Your case is empty, rather than rested.
MHSPs vary too much for any converter to apply a standard.
Read my post. Waste drain on n/side and a fresh filler on both sides.
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And alterations to the access road and how far away is the nearest water and waste ,as where it has been placed is not as suggested"inconvenient as it is on a bi drectional road and the bit you may be correct is ,it was the "cheapest option" as all, the water and waste are close by
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A two metre length of waste hose attached to the waste outlets and clipped under the "skirt"on motor caravans is all it would need to "help?"those who cannot stop within the three feet of the expensive updates that one section of the membership seem to have problems with,even on other companies site in the UK who seem not to be so accommodating
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I said ours has about 2ft and it’s all that’s needed. We have no 'skirt'.
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