Elddis - any Hymer effect yet?
Comments
-
i guess its a connundrum for manufacturers.....there are many who 'never' use the van shower (other for storage, putting their bike or levelling wedges or dirty overcoats etc in
) and im sure suppliers know this....however, is there a UK supplier of a 'proper' caravan/MH (not a campervan) who would market one without a shower.
equally, there are loads who 'couldnt possibly' use a toilet in a caravan, yet, again, would suppliers rip this out in lieu of a space for a dog bed?
similarly, would either of the groups of above customers purchase a van without the 'essentials' of a shower/toilet despite 'never' using it?
i guess, the market (filtering down to 2nd/3rd buyers) being what it is will 'dictate' that, somewhere down the line, another purchaser would need these, so the after market appeal is reduced.
as above, campervans are happily marketed without showers, many without toilets, some with the most basic of kitchens......on a sliding scale away from 'full fat' vans....
this seems to work ' market wise' as customers know whats out there and what to expect in the varying levels..
perhaps this may eventually filter down (up) to caravans....especially with the advent of the 'adventure/sport/lifestyle' type of van thats gradually coming to market.
however, i'd rather conduct my own adventures with a toilet and shower.
0 -
Hymer perfect build quality absolutely not, our 2007 Nova was distinctly average. 2001 Swing ugly but bullet proof. 2015 Nova seem excellent overall build quality. Apart from the shower lining nothing has fallen off. It was Velcro'd on so not a big deal.
3 issues that would need to be addressed before I would consider a Bucaneer.
Payload needs to addressed and a higher rated axle needs fitting
Position of 12v master switch plonked at random in amongst the light switches. Seems to be the same with all Elddis vans
The 3 pin plug socket in cupboard next to the door in the version I saw. Looked like it was sourced from a pound shop mounted on a nasty large surface mounted box. Ugly and cheap.
You might see my second two objection as trivial. In a sense you would be right. The 12v switch surely it wouldn't cost anything to seperate it from the other switches. Indicates to me a lack of attention to detail. The ugly cheap plug tells me that it's the bits you don't see you need to worry about.
0 -
Some posts on this thread have "hilighted? "the different mindset of uk and other countries when it comes to what is "needed?"in leisure vehicles to enjoy the lifestyle,and also that things are not all "perfect" with any manufacturer,although we know it is a few whos main purpose in life is to knock anything uk
1 -
The opportunities for British Industry, know how and technology will be great and the sky is the limit for the country
The only problem is even if there is a boom for UK manufacturing we do not have enough workers skilled or unskilled to do the work as we currently have approaching full employment.
I guess we could always invite our friends from the EU over to work, Oh wait we voted to kick them all out and not allow them back last June didn't we.....
I suspect Hymer may be thinking that if they build units here of whatever make they would not get caught up in any import restrictions that may come into place. Introduce same procedures and QC as they do in Germany as well as manufacturing process/materials bit like VW shipping cars to China to be assembled except they could create all the parts in the UK to a better spec than currently Eldiss offer.
0 -
im not convinced the Hymer effect will be to haul Elddis (quality) up by its bootstraps kicking and screaming....
certainly in the MH market Hymer has quality (lower priced) brands in Sunlight (Dethleffs) and Carado (Hymer) which compete directly with Elddis on price. these two brands are rising quickly in Europe and Hymer certainly wants to get them better known in the UK, so make some use of Elddis capacty, perhaps....
however, the big thing is the 'UK customer/market' where these (mainly) continental designs wont immediately appeal to the home market.
Hymer has to decide if it is to 'push' these here, and sell 'quality' at Elddis prices, perhaps at the expense of UK designs...
it may decide that UK customers might lap up some of the 'less extreme' continental traits, perhaps with single beds and end washroom, or the move to island beds with a less high 'garage' below..should the quality feel come thrpugh loud and clear.
the main thing is, does Hymer see Elddis as a brand moving forward, in the MH and the caravan market?
i dont know what Hymer has in its range to compete with the lower ranges of Elddis caravans but i have looked hard at the Nova range at last years NEC (not changing...) and was seriously impressed.....
ive also been in loads of popular branded caravans at dealers (just to look) and have been serially underwhelmed.....totally flimsy and downright cheap, most of them....
so, Elddis as a brand moving forward?.....possibly as a caravan maker but perhaps not producing MHs?
0 -
As far as I can see. The only significantly British thing about a British van is the final assembly. Almost all of the major components are made abroad. What Hymer will give Elddis for free is much greater buying power, and that will reduce costs, without the need for any capital investment.
0 -
I know what you mean about the 12v master switch. The number of times my missus has accidentally switched it off when intending to switch of the light positioned next to it. The switch now has a coloured sticker on it to remind her to leave it alone!
As for the plug socket just inside the under seat locker access hatch on our van, it’s a fairly standard socket fitted, not an issue.
At the show today, we looked over the Barracuda and wasn’t impressed. The new lounge layout whilst innovative is much smaller than the wide angle marketing photos would suggest. One of us would be in feet up comfort whilst watching TV, the other sat bolt upright. It needs a footstool.
Overall, we’ve decided no caravan at the show today is remarkably better than our current Caravel. We’ve decided to switch to a motorhome, probably but not definately, a Knaus Sun TI 700 MX. Decision made, kind of
0 -
We were at the NEC on Wednesday and wandering between stands we happened upon some Hobby caravans. Out of interest Margaret popped her face into have a look as there were already people actually in the van. The people in the van were complaining that there was no oven or shower!!! It was quite an interesting model as it had an island bed at the from and a dinette in a fairly compact van. However at £24000 I thought it a bit on the expensive side given the level of equipment? Just in case anyone asks no we are not looking to go back to a caravan it was just curiosity and the fact that Hobby were giving away some some rather nice bags with the brochures in.
David
0 -
We've always had caravans with large end washrooms, full ovens, wet central heating etc, etc. The last one was a disaster of an Elddis, purchased new in 2013. Then we went to New Zealand, and spent three weeks in a Ford Transit based camper, with just a toilet/washbasin compartment, two gas burners for a hob, and a small microwave. What a revelation! We came home, and bought an Eriba Troll 540, which is truly marvellous. It's very comfortable and spacious, and has a massive payload, as well as being built like a tank, and much easier and cheaper in fuel to tow. Granted, we never use campsites without facilities, but we do go on three week holidays all over the UK and Europe. The realisation that we don't really need all that "stuff" we used to haul around was liberating. We feel almost sorry for those still towing big white boxes, and I think it's quite ironic that Hymer now owns both companies!
2 -
lovely post, Adelaide....i though it was gping to end with you telling us you had bought a Transit camper....
however, it just goes to show re: 'stuff'.....
no doubt there are plenty of folk out there carrying loads of it, are beyond their carrying capacity and are blissfully (deliberately) 'unaware'
0 -
no, nothing wrong at all.....just thought that was how the story would end...
many do take full on touring in them, remember it may be a lot easier than trying to do it here.....lots of easy parking, meals and drinks outside, no site booking required and access to the wonderful aires systems......
yes, might be a lot easier.....
0 -
I quite like what Elddis has to offer in terms of motorhomes but one thing that puts me off is the fact that showers are not always fully lined. Perhaps that is one thing that Hymer could influence?
David
0 -
im sure Hymer's interest wasnt to help Elddis out as they might 'need a cash injection' nor to help them design a shower properly...
would either of these things help Hymer in any way?
surely, they're in it for the money, long haul...post brexit....they want a presence in the uk where they can sell UK built Hymers (at premium prices) without going through the import trade/quota hoops that might be put in place as part of the exit process...
perhaps some members might try a British van....a Hymer built in Consett
0 -
In the latest C&CC magazine they mention that Elddis will introduce a range of PVC's for 2019. They were a bit short on detail on whether they are made in the UK but I wonder if this is as a result of the Hymer takeover? Details here
David
0 -
perhaps some members might try a British van....a Hymer built in Consett
If they could get up to Hymer's quality in respect to construction technology, payloads and QC then just possibly as we would like to buy from the UK. However, memories of what has gone before take a lot of forgetting about.
0 -
Hymer may well improve basic design and quality control at the Elddis factory, but I think the German company is shrewd enough to know that the British public for the most part wants a different product altogether - a caravan as big as possible, as lightweight as possible, with as many built in gadgets on board as possible, and as cheap as possible. That is not the description of a typical German caravan which can be expensive but surprisingly basic - we saw one without even a shower on board.
0 -
I’m not neccesarily sure there is much wrong with Elddis basic design. The problem is the implementation of the designs, that is the issue, I would guess if Elddis are making a profit then there isn’t much incentive to implement radical changes, because it doesn’t reflect on the Hymer brand.
One interesting point about the PCV’s is they run on Fiat chassis. Hymer took over a RV manufacturer in the US , Canada and they introduced a couple of Hymer branded RV’s running on Dodge Ram Chassis. Reason given for the choice was that Hymer are massive Fiat customers WW and Dodge are a Fiat Chrysler brand and Hymer get good prices. Have Eldiss used Fiat before? A friend has just bought a 2016 Elddis MH and that Is based on a PSA chassis he tells me.
0 -
In view of plans of the Hymer family to sell off part of the business and possibly float on the stock exchange, I doubt whether there will be very much activity at the Explorer Group until the future of the parent company is settled. Apparently Hymer is more involved in setting up a Chinese joint venture at the moment. It is rumoured that KPS Capital and Centerbridge (both US investment companies) are due to submit offers sometime in September.
0 -
Have Eldiss used Fiat before? A friend has just bought a 2016 Elddis MH and that Is based on a PSA chassis he tells me.
Yes that is correct all their current and previous models at least in recent years have been on the Peugeot base. It surprised me that the new PVC's were on a Fiat base which caused me to think that they may not have been built at the Elddis factory. Have they really set up a production line for two models?
David
0 -
I suppose it depends on how much of the company they sell off. I work for what was an American company that was taken over by a German company. The Family owners of the company did sell some shares so it is quoted on the Dax. But the family trust still retain arround 70% of the shares. The Hymer family might do something similar or sell themselves off lock stock and barrel to a hedge fund
Even if Hymer don’t improve Elddis quality the advantage from a business point of view is the buying power of the group as a whole. They can buy a lot more Thetford toilets and Dometic fridges than explorer group did and must get best prices. Same applies to Fiat Chassis as they will be talking in terms of thousands not hundreds.
0 -
As you say, with the purchase of the Explorer Group there are no doubt immediate volume benefits in the sourcing of components.
At this moment of time, it seems uncertain whether the Hymer family will retain a controlling interest in the company. I get the impression that maybe with the Chinese joint venture and the purchase of the Explorer Group and the Canadian RV manufacturer Hymer bit off more than they could chew, or at least didn't leave them with enough resources to proceed with necessary investments to fulfil their goal.
0 -
We have replaced our caravan recently and did look at some Compass models and there were no obvious problems. The dealer did say they have improved since the purchase, but then again they would. Personally I am sceptical and did not buy one, but they do look nice.
0 -
Is it a Brexit thing? If we have no deal with the 27 then imports may be liable to duty so putting the price up. Duty might be payable on components but that might be a lot less than the total unit. This happened before and after the second war which is why Ford and GM had plants in UK and Germany. Might it also give them access to Ellis’s dealerships?
0 -
-
I'm not sure of the Hymer Effect re product quality....but I do know that the decision to enter the cheap PVC market will have been made on high...
i don't know where the 'Elddis' PVCs are built, but the market sector is so bouyant (particularly in Germany) that Hymer had to mix it with AT, Swift and (to a lesser degree due to price) AS.
0 -
“Cheap”? 😵
0
