Interesting petition
Comments
-
The petition says this -
We ask the club to move with the times and to look to own or manage overnight motorhome parking areas
ie - to provide, at a cost, something which specifically excludes a major section of the membership,
The issue isn't about Aires per se, incidentally, it's about the direction in which the petition was aimed.
1 -
Brue, the issue with travellers is not anything to do with decent law abiding MHers....it's how we deal with offenders.....too many kid gloves about, authorities scared witless, the perpetrators with the upper hand....
we need to grow a pair before long, or we the rest of us will continue to be given two fingers.
how do travellers get into a barrier controlled section of a car park?
and is anyone discussing the non payment for any aire type facility?
not that I've seen. most MHers are happy to pay their way, but for many, £25 a night is a lot to pay when you aren't there long enough to make use of anything other than the parking space.
those away for many weeks will find these sort of charges prohibitive, hence the growing demand for 'camping-lite' or just a stop over.
so yes, please continue to concentrate on sites if that's your thing, no one is suggesting that you (or anyone else) must use Aires, there's room for all to choose their own type of camping.....
however, for those that do find simple overnighting 'appealing' there are many advantages.....location, convenience, cost, etc....
those who have tried the sites at Bristol, York, Cirencester etc will understand how nice it is to have your bed so close to town action, and those who've used the Aires system in Europe will realise how this is repeated in virtually every town (and village) and not just a handful of locations....
a BW in every city would be fantastic, but we won't be building more campsites like this....But there are ready made parking spaces in just about every town which could be made use of..
1 -
M, brick wall and head spring to mind. 🙄
2 -
Come on Mark, be brave, try out some of your ideas on here. The essential business case, you've no idea? I think the club will need to hear a bit more on that one. If you've no idea, where does the club start? Will you be willing to pay the not so cheap costs of overnight parking so that the club continues to make a profit and recoup it's costs?
0 -
Brue, why would it cost more to park a MH in (say) a space and a half instead of a car......
ah, 1.5 times the cost, you might say...
but, if the spaces are actually empty overnight and occupied and paid for by MHers then there might be a profit to be turned on a dozen or so spaces.
costs of infrastructure would need to be costed (barrier, ticket machine, Bourne and plumbing etc) but so would the uplift effect on the local economy....meals with the kids, visiting local attractions etc....increasing that wonderful hidden economic measure.....tourism...
the equation will be tricky but any of us could make up some figures to swing it in 'our' direction (no one ever milked it a bit in the first Project Initiation Document they wrote?.....no....)
so, it wouldnt be that tricky to put some numbers together to make building a case wholly 'reasonable'....
of course, I'm not going to do it as knocking something is far easier than putting it up for debate....but it could be done.
1 -
I can see the case for "aires" being run by LAs etc but not by the club, why does the club need to be involved? As said previously the petition is aimed at the wrong potential provider and it strangely ignores the fact that EVs probably will be towing in the future and sites will not be empty wastelands they might even be used by electric motorhomes and electric towing cars. Now there's a thought.
0 -
but if it's something you don't want, why the vehement protestations about floating the idea for other members who do/might?
is it because if you can't have it, no one can?
as I said earlier, I bet you were delighted that the club lobbied on the caravan MOT issue.....nothing to do with the motorhoming members (who have to MOT their 'caravans') but so what....
now there is an issue that might be of some use to a different section of the membership suddenly we all have to be equal....
a bit of a selfish attitude don't you think?
didnt expect anything else really.....
1 -
Good post BB. A definite grasp of the situation. Nobody wants to stop tuggers using Full blown club sites , but in recognising that Motorhomers / Campervan owners often just want overnights in a Camping Lite environment, the creation of Aires, similar to those in France would be absolutely ideal.. The support of Camping organisations in conjunction with Local Authorities would help this project to come to fruition.
K
1 -
....because the club represents a very large number of MHers in the UK....well, that's what some think, perhaps they don't....
I would have thought that, to support any business case, getting some organisation that actually has thousands of MH owning members on board might just help a bit.....
also, isn't the club an 'expert' in this field having just changed its name to show everyone that it is totally inclusive and on board with all things MH. an expert team like this could,give loads of real support to any LA looking to understand what makes MH tick and what their real needs are...or they could ask one or two on here....
again, this might not be the case and it's still the caravan (and MH) club in brackets
1 -
I'm all for Aires and I'd be happy for the club to lobby for them.
The ideal providers would be local authorities but they won't rush unless there's more profit in it than car parking. I've just been involved with the valuation of a car park and a conservative estimate is that each space generates about £2000 per annum. For a city centre location you'd be looking at an awful lot more than that per space.
If you set up a formal overnighting area you'd probably need planning permission and licensing
Quite a few local authorities are currently looking to survey numbers following requests from residents to restrict overnighting in car parks
So I can't see local authorities being too helpful
Who would I approach? Pub and restaurant chains. You'd get reasonable coverage if just Toby Carvery got involved
1 -
If you set up a formal overnighting area you'd probably need planning permission and licensing
Why would you need to do that? all you are essentially doing is allowing overnight parking instead of just daytime, its already a car park so what do you need to licence or planning permission for? Ask Mr Sugar or Trump, by allowing usage 24 hours a day for some spaces you can double your revenue, its called sweating your assets!
0 -
Because a commercial car park has a 'Sui generis' use and anything that isn't parking a vehicle would need a change of use.
Occupying a motorhome whilst parked I would class as camping (and I'd probably send an enforcement officer out)
Edit - I should have said overnight occupation
1 -
Jay, I saw planning notices on lampposts in Exmouth but can’t remember exactly what they said.
0 -
Jay, would such a chain need planning permission for vans to be parked on a regular basis?....
the Motorhomers Club (mentioned upthread) can issue exemption certificates, I believe...would pub chains need this sort of exemption?
or nothing as we are 'customers'?
cheers.
0 -
just comparing the above to European Aires....they are NOT used for camping....they are overnight parking (and sleeping) places...
hence not being allowed to get out chairs and tables (though some do) as this constitutes camping.
0 -
Could be done with an exemption. If so that can be done without pp as long as the relevant requirements are met in the same way that CLs are set up
Pub car parks aren't the same as commercial public car parks. They are there to serve the business so fall into the relevant use class.
0 -
Are many larger towns and cities keen to encourage more large diesel vehicles to drive into central areas? I think they are actively looking for ways to discourage them.
Motorhomers may love the idea of a cheap Aire in central city locations but I can't see it happening. Mayor Sadiq Khan doesn't seem too keen, does he.
0 -
Jay, thanks for the responses.
0 -
It certainly encompassed a change to parking restrictions else I wouldn’t have mentioned it. It also referred to the dedicated car parks for MHs but I can’t remember the details.
0 -
Without wishing to go back over all points about the direction of this petition ( and that seems to me to be the point of contention rather than the establishment of Aires per se), I have to wonder what the actual scale of demand for such a provision is? I'm sure they would be welcomed and used by some but just how many? I ask this because don't 38 degree petitions often raise tens of thousands of signatures within hours? Whereas this one has garnered less than 2000 in five days.
Might I suggest it would have been more appropriately worded and, arguably, gained more support along the lines of "we call upon the club to lobby local authorities to provide overnight parking facilities for Motorhomes to be managed by the club"?
Just a thought!
2
