Interesting petition
Comments
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I'm even more puzzled now about why someone who has not only been a member but active in his centre and served on the committee should be using an organisation like 38 degrees to promote this rather than raising it at the club's AGM?
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This Club owns 200 sites - why would it want to encourage its customers to go elsewhere by pressing local councils to open up car parks as Aires.? Shooting self in foot?
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BB was talking about using supermarket car parks which presumably are not barriered and with a welcome sign to use the carpark and opening time of instore bakery. That is what I replied to Jonray.
He was talking separately about Aires which are barriered in the earlier part of his post.
Most car parks nearby are barriered here. Not sure whether local Asda has height barriers but they certainly did have so that they could lower them if and when needed.
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yes JR, i was taking about regulated areas with appropriate payment/security...
ive seen 'general' car parking areas in the UKwith barrier systems, many multi-storey work this way, but they easily exclude MH by having insufficient headroom.
a small area at a corner of a carpark, with a payment machine and barrier isn't difficult to do.
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BB Salisbury & Winchester have done it at the P&R for parking only and the Aire in Canterbury P&R is very well used and must bring a lot of cash into the local economy that may otherwise be lost. There may be others but these are the ones we have used and know of.
Stayed at a car park Saturday night overlooking the sea, no facilities other than public toilets but thats all we need, we have water on board and a tank to carry waste away. Pictures attached.
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one reason might be that, looking to the future, there is a change in touring style underway, with the increase in MH ownership.
looking at some of your comments regarding the slippery slope that French minicipals are on, due to the changing demographic there and the decrease in use, I would have thought you'd be predicting the same in the UK (and for CC) as folk moving into MHs realise they can tour easily in a different way....
its an extension of why some in MH might never want to pay for Serviced Pitch (we never would) as tanks can last 5 days or more even when showering in the van, and over ten days when not...they don't need them, and many vanners don't need (nor want) site showers and public type toilets either....
MH owners soon realise that they can tour far more easily, from place to place (without having to constantly return to 'base') and some realise that this is far easier to do 'over there' as there is a hefty provision of stopping places (witness the number of threads where caravanners are seeking out sites, especially a little out of season, which drives their trip parameters, not the other way round).
as more and more switch to MHs (for lots of reasons) more and more realise there's more to 'touring' than just CC sites, numbers there might begin to slide, as in the situation in France (more and more touring but less and less using Municipals and switching to 'other' stopping (not campi get) places and if CC doesn't/hasn't recognised this and doent become part of whatever the future holds (changing demographic or environmental) they might start to go the same way....
still, they'll sell more ferry tickets and Red Pennant policies.
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MichaelT
Thanks for posting the reply you got, I am still waiting for mine
There is a good case to encourage local authorities to provide proper parking for motorhomes, even if this meant slightly higher parking fees because of the greater space taken up. I would have thought that in some areas there is also a case to provide for overnight parking if it helped prevent parking that was an inconvenience to others elsewhere. In such cases water and disposal could also be provided at a cost. (whether this would satisfy those that only wanted free parking I somehow doubt)
The case put forward by the petition originator (from what Michael has posted) seems like he has come up with a good idea and then tried to match the reasons to his idea. Why single out the CMC and exclude the C&CC who arguably already do more to satisfy travelling motorhomers by allowing use of the facilities whilst en route on some sites. By all means have a properly thought through plan to encourage the major clubs, tourist organisations, and local government to work in partnership to achieve the goal but trying to force the CMC to take on the entire mantle is just not going to be successful and in my view is a bit misguided?
David
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its an extension of why some in MH might never want to pay for Serviced Pitch (we never would) as tanks can last 5 days or more even when showering in the van, and over ten days when not...they don't need them, and many vanners don't need (nor want) site showers and public type toilets either....
Many caravanners don't want serviced pitches particularly nor facilities beyond water and waste.
(witness the number of threads where caravanners are seeking out sites, especially a little out of season, which drives their trip parameters, not the other way round).
Is that over here BB as I don't think that I have noticed such threads?
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Good points, David.
How he can pretend this will give MHs parity with caravans, I don’t know. He’s grasping at straws.
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Michael, that's great to hear.....noted for the future...
the thing is, the typical CC caravanner doesn't see what you (and thousands of others do all the time) did there as 'camping' and can't associate with it.....to many, you're freeloading or other such silly terms...
whilst parking as you've done is lovely, there is still a demand for more formal 'stopping/parking' and demand will increase, possibly (in the long term) at the expense of more 'traditional' campsites....
i don't see the club as being the one to provide loads of new places but I do see them as a market leader who could 'consult' with other parties to explore different options....the benefit would be them being part of (profiting from) any partnerships they forge.
even another, seperate, form of membership as a gateway (literally) to use of any new facilities.
i thank Graham for raising the thread (I've spoken to him in the past re his website and again following this thread) and while CC may not be the one to deliver per se, I feel they should get in a bit deeper, try harder to understand why MHs 'over there' don't use sites, be aware that there is a big swing afoot and look at what future for camping might take....a lot of it might end up as not on a site....
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my first point was that they don't even need waste and water for many days....
my second was that, even over there, where sites were in abundance, they are closing due to lack of customers as touring switches towards the MH 'style'....
put the two together and you have customers who don't need facilities for extended periods and a changing touring style where 'stopping/parking' is replacing 'camping'...
yes, I'm referring to France (and Spain) but the trend is just hitting them earlier, a bit like the economic links between us and the US....what they get, we get a bit later....
is there ever a better time than now to prepare for the future?
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The problem with all this is it is down to local authorities so I think what this may do is get the CMC to campaign on MH behalf so all local authorities can give some parking and/or Aire facilities. IF we take York or any other large tourist area that currently cannot keep up with demand for space at the club sites. If the P&R were to provide say 20 spaces at each P&R then that would free up 60-80 spaces at Rowntree & Beechwood so caravaners would benefit there. Bristol, Bath, Harrogate, Yorkshire Dales and every other tourist place where we want to go but are limited with the type and amount of parking space available.
Its not about freeloading but legitimate paid for parking as that's all we are doing, not getting chairs and awnings out and setting up camp, visiting an area, contributing to the local economy and moving on to the next stopping point.
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good post, when we write it (and think about it) like that, it can't be that hard, can it....?
its getting a big player behind the idea (for the right reasons) to help,put the case....
20 spaces in rack P/R, barrier, card machine....everyone pays, time limited, fast turn over of spaces, 'bourne' type water/waste point.
I realise that getting over the mindset and the beurocratic hurdles would be difficult, the actual implementation (as an infrastructure project) couldn't be simpler.
however, the mooted roll out time of a revised MHSP on all CC site was around 20 years....
...and I've used the 'new' one at Minehead....same as the old one but slightly larger grate....
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Do motorhomers in France join a Club? No way - they just use the network of Aires.
If there was the same network of Aires here would motorhomers join this Club? I doubt it very much. Membership would rapidly shrink.
So if I were a business manager at Caravan Club Ltd I would quietly discourage local councils from opening Aires. Defending the brand they call it.
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but, again, things are changing in France re Aires...many are coming into private ovnership and are no longer in LA hands...there may not be, but there could easily be a membership (discount/access) scheme to 'belong' to those owned by the same group....as Michael mentions above...
I agree that this isn't currently how things operate with LA owned Aires, but with plenty being taken over, who knows how they are going to be managed going forward?
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what did you find when you Googled it?
(asked in the spirit of.....'what did the warden say when you asked him?.....'
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3) Why should the club pay for something exclusive to motorhome owners? I'm looking for the needs of Motorhome owners to be represented on an equal footing to those of caravan owners; I believe they are different and understand how unless you have owned both how this is may be difficult to understand.
How patronising is para 3.
Why does this guy believe motorhomers are already treated differently than caravanners. In my view we are all treated equally, we can all book club sites, use CL’s, take out insurance, even get 10 year membership stickers. What this petition is doing is asking the club to treat MH differently and not affording caravanners the same opportunity. Pretty divisive really
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Welcome back from your "sabbatical", BB and thanks for the hint. I just Googled it and apparently it's called "Club Motorhome". Didn't look very far but I assume it's specifically for motorhome owners and, as such, the ideal target for this petition I'd have thought.
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I thought he was asking for MHers to get something 'less' than caravanners.....
just a place to park with no toilet/shower facilities....
it may well not something you'd want, perhaps?
i dont see this idea as devisive at all, if the club could help deliver something, by perhaps getting involved with other organisations, any take up by MHing members would free up more site spaces for those who want them....would that be a bad thing with stiff competition for pitches being the current norm?
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Also the Motor Caravanners Club, M, but as far as I know they only have a virtual presence and no fixed assets by way of sites etc unlike the clubs as we know them. They probably have assets of around £20😂.
No offence intended as I’m sure they provide a great platform for people to interact.
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I presume you are aware of recent problems with travellers on the P&R at Taunton which resulted in the total closure of the whole area twice at a considerable cost to the community both as users and rate payers. Personally I can see why some local LAs might be a bit risk averse to this idea.
Overnight provision of a small amount of spaces in certain popular areas might be a consideration but access to larger spaces might not work.
There is also the ongoing problem of motorhomers parking up near sites and attempting to use the facilities.
What is the difference between those motorhomers who refuse to pay for anything and the ones who are willing to pay. How big is the culture of non-payers I wonder? Would they just move on to new pastures?
There is so much to think about I think I'll concentrate on using sites which have served me well over many years now. They may have their faults but car park life just doesn't appeal.
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there is also the Motorhomers Club, but I'd guess that these two together don't 'represent' anywhere near the number of MHers as the two clubs together....
i agree with Michael, the CC certainly 'should' represent its members on issues like this and can't pretent to be MH friendly/inclusive and then baulk at the first attempt to get them involved in MH based issue.
personally, I don't think the club should have got involved with the caravan MOT thing (of course every caravan should have some form of roadworthyness certificate) but they did lobby (successfully) as it affected their members.
however, did all the MH owners go bleating that they shouldn't have spent the money without spending an equal amount on them...of course not...
the club just stepped in and did something for a section of its members as I would expect it to do for any section.....like campaigning for a decent Aires system.
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