Interesting petition
Comments
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A lot of this boils down to people that buy M/H's without doing their homework or giving the matter sufficient thought.
They buy a large M/H, find that a lot of caravan sites are located so far away from POI's that they can't walk to anywhere, and it's too much trouble to pack up the M/H to drive off site each day, and if they do, parking for a large M/H is difficult (too many people want fixed beds making some M/H's 7 or 8m long).
Hence the existing CC sites within walking distance of towns being so popular.....
Further exacerbated by some M/H owners wanting parking & services for free or as near as damn it.....
The author of the petition might be better asking the Club's to provide bluntly worded education on the pro's & con's of large M/H's. (As opposed to smaller, more flexible PVC's & smaller coach builts, or heaven forbid, a car & caravan).
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I spent my career in information systems. One of the most valid things I learned was not to ignore anything, no matter how irrelevant it seemed or how little it appeared to fit with existing (quite possible biased) perceptions.
Instead, ask the question to see what (hopefully constructive) responses result. That way you can come to a proper, evidence based, conclusion rather than just make an assumption which may well have as much chance of being wrong as right.
How can one be constructive if one thinks the subject is basically flawed? By giving calm, reasoned arguments rather than just a one-liner which provides no indication as to whether it is evidence based or biased
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I'm not sure about the last paragraph but I agree entirely with the rest of your post.
Our current motorhome (second one which we have had for 6 and a half years) is 6.7 metres (with a fixed bed) and usage has to be sensible.
Even though I have been researching and publishing information for daytime parking of motorhomes for some 12 years we find walking or using public transport preferable.
As a result our camping is mainly based around C&CC rallies and temporary holiday sites which are well enough served by public transport to be practical. They also have the advantage (in the main) of not having to be booked in advance.
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I accept what you say mhp, but I think the Club will do as it is doing now and put different units onto the sites should they be underused. We are also decades away from losing towed caravans. Maybe not the big ones, but the market is coming up with lightweight units. This may even return the Club back to its roots of providing touring pitches, rather than plonking a mobile bungalow and the kitchen sink down! 25 years ago, a 15 foot Caravan was considered huge, now it's dwarfed by most units. Fashions change!
I think it's unfortunate for you that you have merely forwarded this petition for forum users to view, but are perhaps taking a bit of the flack for the actual petition. I have just read your paper entitled Making the Case for Aires in the U.K., and commend your research and reasoning as to whether or not the UK needs them, and the difficulties/constraints in place here as opposed to on the Continent.
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"By giving calm, reasoned arguments rather than just a one-liner which provides no indication as to whether it is evidence based or biased"
I gave my reasoned argument which basically hinges around land and cost and the seeming misuse of club resources for only a section of the membership. It’s a huge mistake to petition CAMC to fund and provide these van parks. I’d have thought you and the petitioner would have realised that. Frankly, the concept deserves no more than ridicule.
I understand you have a desire to create aires in the UK and that may well be viable but to push this idea is not likely to help your cause, in my opinion.
Incidentally, many of us have had careers and are mightily relieved not to have to listen to management waffle any more. An 'evidence based conclusion' is something Mark Bevan seems to have little idea of.
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Thanks for the compliment.
It may well be that the Club will do as it is doing now. If that is where the evidence points then it would be sensible.
It would be entirely in line with what I said in my OP "I would hope that the CAMC would provide a reasoned response (whether positive or negative), based on constructive thought, rather than simply ignoring it.".
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"Sorry but I think that idea is straight out of cloud cuckoo land."
"Yep, once they’ve finished rolling around the floor in laughter, they can consider which round filing cabinet to put it in."
"Mmm, he could just be a front man.."Well, I suppose such comments are calm and reasoned in the eyes of some
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I guess it suits you to pick out the light hearted comments while ignoring my other posts. That’s grossly misleading.
Anyway, I’m still waiting for an answer to this -
"Incidentally, if you have no connection with Mark Bevan or with this petition, why are you so keen to argue the case and to see constructive discussion?🤔"
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But the "immediate reactive negativity" hasn't come from, as might have been expected, "traditional" caravanners seeing a request for something which has little benefit for them, has it, Graham? Indeed, the most vigorously negative responses have come from motorhomers themselves. And neither has the negativity been unconstructive, given the number of posts suggesting that this petition would have been better directed elsewhere than at the club.
No, the negativity is, as far as I can see, a reasoned response to an ill thought out plan, whatever the merits or otherwise of the basic idea might be.
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The latest "rebrand?"of the caravan club which until such did not tend to have any them and us problems,as motor CARAVANS have been included since early 1962 as an INCLUSIVE organisation , so unless any idea of Aire type parking is also to be inclusive of caravans then the idea is dead, the club have already commited to spending thousands of pounds to upgrade m/c service points because of poor designs of waste outlets on m/vs,and with the growth in both types of LVs it would be far better to spend money on inclusive sites than bend to what boils down to making a cheap alternative for those who are now finding as we did ,that in the UK a car caravan combination is far more user friendly
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I doubt that councils or the public will welcome DIESEL engined motorhomes closer to their doorsteps. The move against such engines is gathering pace all the time and until manufacturers can come up with a viable alternative restrictions on polluting vehicles will only increase.
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If they comply with the latest emission standards, there’s little anyone can complain about on that score. However, additional traffic in an already congested area would surely give rise to concerns.
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Why try and divide a club, which in my view works well together ie motorhome/caravan. When on site, I never decide who I speak to or site next to, by the rig they have arrived in, they are members like myself enjoying the site location and facilities. If these people are not happy with the sites provided by the club, there are plenty of farmers fields they can go and stay on.
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So these CMC funded exclusive inner town, Motorhome "parks", will probably only be for owners of Euro 5 or possibly Euro 6 onwards vehicles, then?
Quite a lot of MH owners also losing out on this exclusive scheme here I would think?More seriously I don't see even with the pressures to go for light electrically supported vehicles the CMC sites coming empty. Van's will have to become lighter more modest, and I suspect the CMC will have to come to terms with what replaces the role of tents. Then actually, together with a lot more "cabins", camping will move more affordable and be embraced by younger people who presently are priced out of ownership of caravans & motorhomes. The consequences, the demand for pitches will increase, not die as is being assumed.
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As has been noted by some, it seems the majority of motor caravans are used no differently to caravans on most sites in the UK ,they arrive pitch up and then move off when their stay is over, ,it is just a caravan without a seperate tug, which seems to, when speaking to some, of getting over their fear of towing,and use service pitches to save moving to get water or dump waste,,toilet servicing is no different ,so i can see no need for a "cheap/free" stopping point, when the cost of setting up such places in the UK would be far higher than the the large amount of space available "over there"
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I completely agree with your first paragraph, Ocsid. It’s even more divisive than it first appeared.
You may have noticed that I don’t consider this scheme to be entirely sensible.
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"...which seems to, when speaking to some, of getting over their fear of towing,and use service pitches to save moving to get water or dump waste..."
Shame you had to ruin your point with that, JV.☹️
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Firstly, I don’t agree that caravans will die out due to lighter tow cars and EVs. Secondly, Club sites cater for motorhomes adequately as it is. They have dump and filling facilities and sufficient hard standings. In that respect they are no different to continental sites which have exactly the same except that the a club is not suited to touring as you can’t risk just turning up without a booking.
So, what is being discussed is that the Club should open some urban motorhome Aires as are provided by the Town Hall in France and in many other countries. Seems to me that the Club is the wrong organisation to be doing this so I see no merit in the petition.
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Name the 5.
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Surely the club already provides the choice of sites (as the petition calls for) in the shape of CLs with no facilities, these are often a field and quite close to towns, POIs etc, so where is the problem. I also find it strange that this petition seems to be getting support when so many motorhomes can be seen using fully serviced pitches, this could not be further from the proposal if they tried.
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It is as noted when speaking (its good to talk)to some as that is what has been stated,they were not sure about towing so had not tried "camping"but a motor caravan gets over their "fear"
Ps as an enlightened past motor caravans owner, i just asked what made people get a motor caravan and it seems that may also be another reason why there are more around
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Which has nothing at all to do with the topic so your dig is out of place here.
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But the right to reply is no fun to use as a wind up, One. Simples.😋
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