Caravan too heavy for VW Passat?
I have a 2007 Swift Challenger 510. I don't fully understand the 'weights' which are quoted - MTPLM 1540kg and MIRO 1334kg. I have a new VW Passat 2.0ltr 150PS. I have it in writing from VW that it can tow a 2000kg braked trailer on a 12% incline. But the Club Match Report says the caravan is more than the kerb weight of the car and Police may consider this an unroadworthy combination! Any thoughts? The kerb weight of the Passat is 1505kg
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Sorry, your Passat would be too light to tow your caravan as it is less than the weight of the caravan. Could it tow it? Yes definitely, the engine would cope fine. Would it be safe? This is the problem; 90% of the time things would probably be fine, but in the event of a problem (need to suddenly brake, a gust of a cross wind, a large HGV overtaking) your car may be 'wagged' by your caravan with catastrophic results. The 85% advice from the CAMC is therefore sensible advice.
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To be clear your outfit is NOT illegal as a weight match and sur le continent it would not be deemed an issue. However you may find insurance issues (some companies restrict weight ratio to 100% and if not well balanced it is likely to attract the interest of the police/DVSA. Have a look on Towcar matching website which has user towing reviews and takes account of the weight of passengers and goods in the towing vehicle. Personally i would not go above 100%. Another thought, is your car kerb weight quoted from the brochure or from the V5? If the brochure it is possible the actual UK spec takes the kerb weight higher. For an example a towbar could add 15kg or more.
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you cannot add a towbar to the kerb weight of a vehicle or passengers come to that, these are part of the vehicles payload just like a caravans payload. you have a kerb weight and a max load weight of a vehicle and the difference is your payload. this must not be exceeded. Just like a caravan.
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I would strongly advise against this combination. We bought a new 1456Kg MTPLM caravan to be towed with our BMW 320D estate (Kerb weight 1720Kg) and it towed OK in perfect conditions. But we had the fright of our lives when we encountered a deep rut in the road which sent us into a real snake. The caravan literally took over for a few seconds until we managed to slow down enough to stop the snake. We had only been towing at about 55 MPH as well.
We replaced the BMW with a Landrover Freelander which manages the combination well.
It's not just your safety at risk but the safety of others as well.
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handsj, i do not really see your point in context of the OP thread. A Freelander 1 is probably lighter than the Beemer and an FL2 isn't much heavier. Hitting a rut could have caused the same snake with any tow car and may have been exacerbated by poor loading or other factors. A colleague had something similar with a 5 series estate and a relatively light van all due to the budget brand soft walled rear tyres, a change to Continental run-flats stopped the tank slappers.
lornalou: i didn't say anything about increasing the gross laden weight beyond the factory specification. However if the towbar is factory fit option (such as roofrails or electric seats often are) they will add to the ex-factory kerb weight (at the expense of payload). I am not saying I would tow above 100% but given the figures quoted by the OP are only 35KG apart I would get the car and 'van onto a weighbridge. And there is no point getting the weight below 100% (or 85% for the worriers) if the nose weight, weight balance, tyre pressures and so on are all wrong. As referred to above Even the make of tyre can affect handling characteristics when towing. There is more to a safe set up than weight ratio alone.
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no - you should take your foot off the accelarator and let the outfit slow down, and don't brake either.
this is from the CCC take both feet off the pedals to bring down your speed using your car’s engine braking. Avoid the instinct to brake, but keep steering in a straight line. Trying to steer out of the sway can make the problem worse.
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Only had one snake in 19 years and that was on a section of the A1 M, that we had done many times, but it was over a bridge section much higher than the surrounding land, and a gust of sidewind caught us and the snake started, it was very scary, probably only a few seconds but seemed much longer.
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not the CC DD, also been common knowledge for as long as I've been caravaning
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seriously?
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As so briefly said earlier, there are a whole host of other factors than a few percentage points difference in weight ratio that massively effect towing stability.
A point to determine from user experiences, is how "good" a tow car is your particular Passat model?
A vehicle with the right characteristics to tow, would be a great deal better choice even at 100% ratio, than a poor vehicle at sub 85% ratio.
Then there is the whole issue of what really is that vehicles "kerb weight", whatever that term actually means?
Thinking it is a go or no go situation re stability, over a few tens of kgs in a 3000 kg setup, is technically ludicrous, there are much more fundamental aspects involved.
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Well said Ocsid and one of the reasons the Clubs recommendations are in my view very misleading in focusing so much on weight ratio. I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference between towing at 80, 85 or 90% or +/-5% either side of 100%. Some car/van outfits tow like a pig at 50mph and 80% (legal therefore supposedly safe) and others can tow like a dream at 70mph and 105% when some would have the driver imprisoned and certified.
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I can only speak from 35 years of towing experience with several outfits. It's extremely expensive to have to change any towcar or a caravan just because of poor stability so I would urge anyone new to caravanning to take sensible precautions in their choice of towcar and/or caravan. As others have said, there are many factors, only one of which is weight ratio. We all know about safe loading, effect of tyres, speed, driving style etc etc.
However the Club in their wisdom have grasped the nettle and settled on the 85% figure as a guide only, and it's up to each member as to what suits themselves. I've never had a stability issue in all those years of towing until I towed at 90%. (In my earlier post I got a digit wrong on the weight of my previous BMW, it's kerb weight was just 1620Kg. Although it had plenty of power to pull the 1456Kg van it just wasn't heavy enough imho).
Towing with the FL2 SD4 at 1785Kg is now easy as.
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I don't agree, try weighing your car it will come out a lot heavier.
A difference of 64kg is more than I have with my combo, but I still tow below 100%, and the OP's car is over 100% on paper, and I would recommend not towing that ratio.
Having said that I also know two newbies who tow over 100% and have done for years, not newbies anymore now though.
As already said any combo can snake a few hundred extra Kg will do nothing to help recover a snake or prevent one. IMO.
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as a non tower, and perhaps thinking just about the vehicle, I would put a modern Passat estate down as a pretty large, meaty family car....
if this isn't up to towing a caravan, I'd have to be wondering what they are putting in them....all the ones I've seen have interior walls and furniture made of paper..
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I have been towing with a 2001 Series 2 diesel Discovery which obviously tows with no problem. (Did 2000miles in France last year) I am now retired and we are looking to downsizing our vehicles over the next year or so. The Passat was bought to replace an old Peugeot and to give us a comfortable cruiser and will be our last new car. I did not choose it for towing except my small work trailers. But when I read the spec in more detail it said it could tow 2000kg which I thought of as a 'bonus' - it might be useful to tow the caravan and sell the ageing Discovery. The Passat has a factory fitted towbar, But when I searched the Club's Outfit Matching facility it came back that the Towing Limit was good and within legal limitations but under Kerbweight it states that there maybe stability problems and that the Police may consider the combination unroadworthy! (which would probably mean the insurance would not payout should there be a claim)
I have written to VW who will only confirm the manufacturer's recommended load limit of 2000kg and would not comment on the Club's advise. I have seen Passats towing large caravan infact I saw a twin axle the other day!
I understand the stability possibilities (I have towed trailers and caravans for years) but it seems to me if for whatever reason there were to be an accident, and the caravan is insured through the club, I would be told that I was advised not to drive this combination.
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I agree with oscid and flatcoat you can have a good tow or a bad even with in the limits if you don't pack it right and don't have enough tow ball weight. The ratio of my Passat to the MIRO of the caravan is about 88% and we don't take much with us, no awnings, table or bikes etc etc. So I think the next step is to weigh the caravan and weigh the car and get real world figures
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The weight ratio recommendations relate to the MTPLM however I would not get hung up on the data on the Club matching service. It is notorious for using incorrect info. The Club recommendations are not the law and in my opinion the Clubs words are too often seen as gospel when they are opinion. Carry out your own actual weight checks and also check on other weight matching websites. And if a claim might be a problem, then don’t insure through the club, there are other insurers out there.
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