Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please
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And I presume they will stop all the new Electric trains from entering cities now that they have had to have Diesel engines fitted because of the failure to complete the electrification program??
If you are referring to IKBs GWR, then no as the new trains are both diseasel and electric. They will run under the wires as far as the wires go using electric, then switch to diseasel from there to South Wales where there will be no wires.
The issue comes when the diseasel can't accelerate at the rate the electric can to meet train paths, nor do they have the power to meet line speed running. That'll be fun if the electric fails and they have to drop the pantograph to run under wires on diseasel. At least they will be able to run if electric failure, unlike the first new train that broke down on its inaugural journey from Temple Meads to Paddington.
The railway rolling stock is under the remit of a HMG department, as is electrification. Like catalytic convertors and emissions controls in the 1980s that burned more fuel, governments took the wrong decision, should have gone lean burn.
The diseasel train engines use Urea injection, just like trucks and cars.
As the railway is currently the largest single user of electricity generated in the UK, the generation requirement is not being met on a winters night and there is insufficient new generation coming online anytime soon, add to that EV cars and there are big decisions to be made, outwith the 5 year government cycle.
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Actually Keefy I knew all of that. As the local member to one of the new IEP electric train Depots, I am in there almost weekly and have travelled to Japan to visit the Hitachi factory and watched at the depot while the new Maybach diesels were being fitted with their huge Adblu tanks.
I am afraid that I was being a bit sarky towards a Govt that wants to build HS2 and hasn't even been able to complete the electrification of the existing SW lines yet!
And as for being told about AdBlu - my own car has it fitted from new!
My point is what price a Gov't that demonises Diesel and then has to fit them to their brand new Electric trains? As I said I already run a Diesel, have done since 1980. Have been using AdBlu since 2015. So with respect I really don't need it being explained!!
But hey, I do accept that you weren't to know and I was being a bit sarky. So honours even!
Picture is me in the cab of one of the new trains!
TF
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No worries. Some emojis would assist your natural cynicism / realism in your text
FYI I'm on my second AdBlu Merc. 1st an S350l, now a GLE 350AMG Line. An E220 & E270 prior to those, both diseasels, and countless others when I had company cars from the early Orions onwards.
Lots of people don't understand the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction [AdBlu]) technology employed, so it is often helpful to explain it. Which in turn will help understanding of the Euro6 compliance for prospective buyers of perfectly clean diesel cars. That pre Euro4 engines are the biggest polluters is something HMG fail to talk about. What are predominantly pre E4? Taxis, busses, trains, postal vehicles, dustcarts etc that are effectively public entity owned and operated despite being revalued / re liveried and leased again to 'privatised' entities ie ROSCO as you are aware of
I'm more concerned about HMG and the strike price for electrickery that is risking energy security than HS2 tbh. HS2 is a disgrace for UK PLC. How many high speed lines in China since HS2 has been a dream in the mind of railwaymen that are stuck in a bygone age? When will it be operational? Professor M has a lot to answer for. I thought he was sensible when I dealt with him post Hatfield
HS2 is Failtrack2 as far as I can see Don't tell HMG of tidal energy or we'll have the lights go out before we know it
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As the boss of Stagecoach buses east said when Cambridge council announced they were going to make the city centre internal combustion engine free ,who is going to pay for the over 25% increase in the bus fleet to cope with the recharging needed for the buses needed to run the timetable,
And the fleet of Hibrid buses in London are being converted to diesel only until batteries are better as they do not now last, with the continuose stop start needed in cities
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JVB, I also worry about this stop/start business on modern cars. So much so that if I am in slow moving traffic I often switch it off! Now before someone points out that I am defeating the whole object of having it, - I know! But who is going to pay for the increased wear & tear on my battery and engine?
TF
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TF, the thinking behind all these planet saving ideas are ok if the long term engineering can cope,, but at present it has not been tested over a long enough period,
As for the the new hibrid trains that are being introduced in your area,because HMG decided to curtail the electrification,they will have a job maintaining the the timetable when not under the wires as they are now much heavier with the strait electric version and maintainence costs will also be much higher,and all the fleets will get heavier as there is a very large amount of discontent from "customers?"about the poor seating,which looks like it will be "upgraded"
We have the same here with our new Thameslink trains "customers"me included, say they are like sitting on a plank or park bench and they now run services from Cambridge to Brighton
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Interesting view from the head of PSA group (Peugeot/Citroen/Opel/Vauxhall)
This is exactly my take on it. Not long ago PSA showed a prototype hybrid using compressed air which had most of the benefits of battery hybrids without the cost and recharging problems of batteries. It works extremely well but given the politicians are now pushing EV's no other manufacturers are willing to share development costs. I think we can guess how that will end up....How long until we have 'batterygate'?
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It will be something to worry about in the next life to fight off boredom.
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Adblue and it's inclusion on modern euro6 diesels imho will not contiue for too long in the future as it way too easy to defeat it by widely available emulators for less than a tenner . I'm certain the smallest adblue tank costs more than that to fill.
I know Vosa etc are undertaking roadside checks on commercial vehicles but it won' take long for them to start checking private vehicles when their vehicle checking software identifies relevant models who are supposed to be adblue equippd . The fines are substantial if they find an emulator defeat device fitted.
Tj
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That may be the case with some commercial operators, but I'm a private owner, and I specifically sought out a vehicle running on AdBlu in order to reduce my emissions whilst retaining the power and torque of a big diesel. So with that in mind, I'm hardly going to mess about with it in order to cheat the result that I wanted!
Remember too that for every cheating bar**** out there, there are a lot of totally reputable hauliers too, that will not want to spoil their reputation.
I suspect that it will be a very long time before any of the new power units will deliver the Power and Torque that a really big commercial HGV will produce and the longevity of the engine!
The Diesel will not be dead for quite a while yet!
TF
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What technology do you then feel will replace the use of Adblue to get modern diesels down to even the current Euro 6 standard, let alone meet more restrictive legislation?
I suspect it will not be long before it also starts to be needed in petrol engines as the push for increased efficiency and increased Nox control will make use of some controlling technology there essential.
I am well aware that EGR technology both LP & HP plus combined is another technology to limit Nox though from my experiences with that technology the least it is used in my vehicles the better.
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Well Ocsid simply put adblue isn't the only diesel clean up option. There are many manufacturers who have EUR 6 compliant diesels who rely on dpfs etc. Some with more success than others. I take your point about the inevitable creep that will include petrol engines. Ultimately the end of the ice as an option for personal transport is inevitable imho. As has been mentioned by many I will probably not be around to witness it.
The ' Jetsons' are on their way back 😃😃
Tj
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Regarding the cost of filling Adblue. I filled the tank of my Skoda Superb. It took 12.61 litres and cost £8.81 @ 69.9p/L. I use the truck pump at Chester services. As the filler cap, is next to the fuel cap. It is as straight forward as putting fuel in.
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I don't think this whole idea of getting rid of diesel cars has been thought through properly. Modern Euro 6 car engines are cleaner than their petrol equivalents in the main. Diesels potentially throw out carbon monoxide whereas petrol throws out carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas that all governments have declared war against. According to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders the level of CO2 has increased as diesel car sales fall.
There are many other users of diesel fuel that would be very difficult to reduce. Rail is only about 50% electrified, (with electrification projects being cancelled), the rest relies in diesel. Road haulage, agriculture and construction all need diesel powered plant, much of the latter being used in urban situations. The organizations representing these industries have a greater political clout that us "easy touch" motorists. I read somewhere that Southampton, (I believe), has one of the highest air pollution levels because of all the shipping. Ships aren't going to change to being electrically powered are they - (3 months to charge the batteries of a cruise liner??),
The answer is to keep the fuel spread as it is at present but to put more effort into producing even cleaner diesel engines for whatever end use. Yes, at some stage fossil fuel will become exhausted (no pun intended) and some other fuel will have to be found that is as efficient, convenient and practical but I'm sure that day won't happen in my lifetime or that of my grandchildren or their children.
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They could address some of the pollution by sorting out some of our traffic holdups.
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What car has an article comparing an Audi Q5 Diesel to the Volvo X60 Hybrid, taking into account the prices the Volvo does`nt really shine out to me.One interesting point was the usual suspect claim of 28miles on a charge is nearer 20miles in real life. Once the petrol engine cuts in on a car that heavy your MPG goes out the window solo let alone towing.
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On the contrary, there have been many discussions on this topic, you just have to be interested and search them out. How many people have a petrol filling pump at home?
At present recharging is a lengthy process but battery research indicates that it is quite likely that very rapid chargers (5 - 10 mins) will become available so that you can drop in at your nearest petrol station which in future will become your local recharge station. Of course, this may be further in the future than anticipated in which case the transition away from hydrocarbon fuels will take longer.
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Pure Electric Cars and Public Transport are fine and almost viable in Cities and Large Towns, BUT very many people in rural areas have only in the last 50 years or so been connected to mains electricity, and broadband, superfast will still bypass upto 10% of the total population.
Making sweeping 'one size fits all' rules, like banning diesel vehicles in the remote Scottish Highlands is absolutely potty,
The infrastucture is poor already, and getting worse with all the austerity cuts. I have a feeling that the internal combustion engine will still be the main source of transport in this Country's rural communities way beyond 2040. Or horse driven transport could make a comeback ? It would make more sense than electric cars.
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There are problems with electric cars as I see it.
The first is can it tow. Very few can and the Tesla loses out badly on range when you do. It can tow trailers on short journeys but for trips over 100 miles it will not do it as I understand
When you get to the charging point you are going to have to wait at least an hour for it to charge although if you plan things well then you might eat then.
The real problem after that is that no charging point I have seen in car parks, parking bays or motorway services has room for a car and caravan. This means you would have to unhitch and hitch up again after charging which would be far too much for most of us.
Hybrids look more like the future in the short term at least but as Lutz says they still have their drawbacks. There seem to be some newer ones that look possible but there is very little evidence to say which are worthwhile.
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I always try to point out that it's highly unlikely that anyone with an EV (much the same as a fossil fuelled car running down to zero fuel) will run their battery down to nothing. So much of the time it would be a case of topping up, fast chargers can do this in 15-20mins or less depending on how much charge is needed. See my post above and links to charging.
The better EVs also run on regenerative systems where the battery is boosted by braking, slowing down etc. With the addition of a REX (range extender) the battery is also regenerated whilst moving.
However you are quite right to point out that towing has not been added to full EVs yet except the Tesla. Homologation is still in the offing.
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I read yesterday that Porsche are discontinuing production of diesel powered vehicles.
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A neighbour of mine is in the market for a new company car for which he has a very generous allowance from his American employer. He would dearly love an EV for environmental reasons and has done a lot of research into what is available.
He frequently has to travel to Newcastle which would mean he had to charge the car at least a couple of times on the round trip, possibly more in winter. Although he has identified about 30 possible charging points en-route not all of them are particularly convenient and, as he pointed out, he would be relying on the charging point being vacant when he needed it. With the lengthy charging times currently available and the number of charging points nationally a pure EV is just not a practical solution for him. Reluctantly he has had to go for a BMW hybrid of some description but this will only give him a range of about 30 miles on electric.
It would seem that even where people have a strong will to change to an EV it just isn't a practical possibility in the foreseeable future for many people.
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