To Toll or not to Toll!
Having just put the finishing touches to our 2 month European trip through France, Spain and Netherlands of around 3,000 miles, we’ve noticed that the estimated tolls from ViaMichelin route planner are now nearing £400. Up to now, all of our European trips always included toll routes as we prefer the almost empty roads and quality Aires, plus of course the usual quality road surfaces. Whilst we’re in no hurry, we don’t want to increase our towing time disproportionately. As our trips become longer and prices rises year on year, we’re beginning to wonder if non-toll motorways offer a real alternative.
Every time we venture ‘abroad’ we set out with the mission to use non-toll roads, but quickly become disheartened with the route ending up going through a town, or a road that has those chicanes and roundabouts every mile or so. Or, those nuisance road humps every few hundred meters. Fine perhaps if you have a relatively small MH, but not a great experience with a combined outfit length of 12.5m. (Valencia and Touareg)
Often there are comments in other posts where some don’t use toll motorways at all or just partially during their tours. But what are your real experiences of using non-toll roads verses paying the tolls? What pros and cons have you found?
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There are as you say, many differing ideas on what makes up the holiday, based on linear destination, circular touring, no particular destination, time constraints etc.
We usually go for 10-12 weeks and find the vignettes in Austria, Slovenia etc such good value it pays to get one anyway whatever road is taken, but France is another matter. France can be expensive and we 'tootle' along on 'D' roads quite happily because we have no set destination, look upon it as a circular within our time limit.
The towns, villages and scenery is part of it for us rather than mile after mile on a motorway, but we understand others have different ideas. Basically we are in no hurry as we have no set destination and find the 'D' roads quite relaxing, those with a destination obviously want to get there as quickly as possible and therefore motorways and tolls make sense.
But I'm not fazed by the slowing down in villages, and all the things that come with the more minor roads.
12M outfit (roughly).
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To be honest I totally agree with you, although I usually plan to use toll roads then switch to none toll. The ease and speed of toll roads win hands down if racking up the km, but avoiding busy times it's nice to use more scenic roads and pass though lovely villages & towns.
Catch 22
So, for me, pros of none toll - often prettier, can get cheap fuel in town supermarkets and shop at the same time (car park permitting), free.
Cons - can be much slower hence negating the savings against more fuel, lots of changes in speed (fuel again), I've had more than one nightmare with diversions and missed signs, (I also have a 12.5m outfit, MH + car trailer).
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Hi, we’re towing also and often similar distances to yours, 3400 last trip Jan / Feb and just returned. Feel that the caravan towing is a major factor in decision.
Unless your obsessive you will not do that journey sensibly without some tolls regardless.
We’re not against paying the tolls generally, sometimes the divert is just not cost effective we feel in extra fuel & time & wear & tear & hassle & stress. To some saving every euro is a main hobby in their c.£50k outfit.
We been directed to use some pretty shocking routes to save a few euro’s - think goat herders, dirt roads and village traffic jams negotiating hairpin bends with over hanging houses. Our friend is a great great toll hate avoider and wrecked his tow hitch on latest trip but saved on tolls.
We will use some obvious toll saver free motorway routes to help though. There’s a long stretch in med Spain we’re the AP7 toll zig zags the A7 non toll - eu borrowed money for duplicate motorway madness. France has lots of alternative decent motorway dual carriageways as well. Maybe re-post your route choice for simple suggestions ?
There are some websites to assist. France avoid tolls search will find one.
Enjoy the trip !
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Got timed out, but if I had Spain as a destination then I would choose toll roads through France because I take our dog, but if no dog then a ferry would be my choice to as near to Spain as possible.
Last year we took nearly three weeks to reach Vienna, finding some really nice places on the way, rather than hot foot it there.
I suppose if there was a con against the more minor roads, it would be the more continual checking of the route(s) and the 'getting lost' diversions.
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For me, you need to have a different mind-set if using non-toll roads. You can't start thinking 'How quickly can I get somewhere............' but more 'What lovely places can I see on the way from X to Y', and make more stopovers - picnic by a river, stop at a town or village market, stay a couple of days to make sure you take in the Fete which you've seen advertised.
If your main aim is to get from A to B without hassle then use toll roads. If 'meandering' then stop worrying about how long it is taking.
There are places where it makes perfect sense to spend a few euros to avoid hassle - such as going through Orleans where you just wouldn't want to do it off-toll, but there are equally places which have really good by-passes. One tip is to have a decent map, where you can see how the roads are laid out - your SatNav may take you right through the middle of a town - but there may be a perfectly good by-pass.
We never use the sort of roads mentioned in one of the above posts - goat tracks, etc., because we use a decent map, but we have done 'white roads' across France which have been no problem.
If you have specific routes in mind then ask questions about those routes because there may be people who have worked out a viable alternative to a toll road which isn't the one suggested by google, or a SatNav.
You've obviously carefully worked out your routes - our first trip in 1976 (five weeks) we only decided on our ferry port (Calais) and our eventual destination (Prague) and just took along a lot of campsite guides, maps, and stopped frequently along the way, spending one day or four days depending on how much we liked a place. We got to Prague by the date intended, but came back a completely different way to that we'd planned - going south into Austria instead of back the way we came!
That's much the same way we holiday these days - but we have first to get down to our caravan - but we still make different choices about routes depending on how we feel on the day - and only pay tolls very occasionally.
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Thanks for the replies which are similar to our own thoughts - just needed the reassurance we weren't paying unnecessarily.
The link supplied by Montesa is a great read. https://about-france.com/tourism/med-avoiding-tolls.htm Never too old to learn something new......Thanks
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Agree its horses for courses. Passing through a country can be expensive if your destination is elsewhere, but for touring within the country and visiting various places, Slovenia's vignette is cheap in comparison with French tolls if you want the freedom to use any road.
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Ask not for whom the bill tolls, It tolls for Visa.
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We tend to use both toll and non toll routes depending on where we are going. As Val says a map is a useful tool as you can get a reasonable idea on those bits on non toll roads to avoid. If you plan a high mileage in one day the motorways will be much easier. However if you restrict your journey each day to 100/150 miles you have more time to indulge in cross country toll free routes. There is no one correct answer to this question as it depends on individual circumstances and preferences.
David
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Some good points made especially by Val. I guess the OP was prompted by my comments about how little I spent on tolls to travel there and back to the Costa Blanca. It maybe different for a motorhome owner with time on their hands compared to a caravan owner, especially if the motorhome is going to incur class 3 tolls in France. I try and limit my distances to between 200- 250 miles a day so whether it takes 5 or even 7 hours to cover this distance it does not matter to me. I have made the trip to Spain so many times now by so many different routes over the years that I pretty much know the best and cheapest routes for my trips. I averaged 40mph there and back this year over the 2300 miles or so. I think that is a pretty good average for a non toll autoroute. My fuel consumption wasn't that bad either in fact it was a bit better that using the motorways in the UK. I wonder how much different it would be using the toll roads?
I find motorway routes boring, only to be used when absolutely necessary. It is not all about cost saving although this does figure quite large in my decision on which route to take because with a Class 3 vehicle I can save a considerable amount of money by avoiding tolls.
peedee
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It all depends where you are starting from and where you are going to. I live in Cornwall, cross from Plymouth to Roscoff, and so the first 250 miles towards the sun is toll free, motorway standard dual carriageway. After that I mix and match.
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We travelled to Malaga early January from Calais and spent just over £130€
on the way back up a couple of weeks ago we chose to mix and match tolls and non tolls just to see how different it was. Over a 4 day of around 6 hours travelling we only took about 3 hours more and spent around 40€ So around a 90€ saving for 3 hours more travel.
you have to do your homework if you don’t want to go through villages after villages some roads there is a free duel carriageway running fairly parallel with the toll road. The A10 and N10 is a good example from Bordeaux to Poitiers with the N10 being about 3/4 duel carriageway and free.
Homework and a good map could save you a lot of €s
Kev
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As a matter of interest, mainly to satisfy myself, I have just looked at the cost of my journey using viamichelin.co.uk It gives a 97.5 percent autoroute which I assume is mostly via tolls. The cheapest toll cost of the two routes offered for class two (car and caravan) was 169 euros using the A10 down the western side of France. That via the A75 across the Cental Massif was 175 euros. I put in my route via Rouen, Chartres the N10 Tours, Bordeaux, Pau and the Somport Tunnel. It comes out at zero toll cost and 50 miles shorter but takes 7 hours longer!
I don't know how you select a Class 3 vehicle, if you can on viamichelin, but I know the tolls are about 3 times as high and I estimate the cost of a tolled route to be of the order of 400 euros. That saving alone would just about cover the cost of a 31 day stay on a fully serviced pitch on the Costa Blanca!
peedee
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Kev the N10 between Chartres and Tours is pretty straight and fast and most of it has a truck ban on it. It can be a bit slow between Tours and Poitier. That between Poitiers and Bordeaux is nearly full dual carriage way. They are still upgrading the short section that isn't but it is heavily used by HGVs. My fear is once complete they will convert it to toll road much the same as they did with the A63 between Bordeaux and Bayonne.
peedee
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Thanks for that, I’ll stay on the N10 longer next year! The road works section lasts for miles and as you say full of hgv but it ran along nicely at about 30 to 40 mph.
unlike some we are not in a great hurry as we spend 7 to 8 weeks in Spain, I like the no rush approach and as you rightly point out the saving on tolls pays for some of the stay.
We used an apartment this year being our first year of having a couple of months away but next year we will be touring so will probably need some tips from you mor knowledgable people
Kev
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Kev, I used the same route both ways and my comments and description of the trips this winter are here:
The places I recommend toll sections are used is to bypass Tours, a small charge to come off the A10 south of Tours, and between Bordeaux and Langon. The ring road around Poitiers is not too bad but it might be worth using tha A10 toll to bypass Poitiers although I didn't.
Peedee
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We're happy to use toll roads to get where we want to go. I understand Val's comment about being able to stop off at interesting places but the reality is that finding somewhere to park with a 13 metre outfit is almost impossible especially near a market etc. It can be very stressful. Also, as mentioned by others, the roundabouts, traffic calming measures etc are far from restful.
We do tend to find a site we like and stay for a week or so and that gives us ample opportunity to search out local markets, vides grenière, restaurants with good menus du jour etc and get there in the car or local public transport with far fewer parking issues.
Not saying others should do that but that's what we prefer.
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Thanks PD a great read. Noticed the No Caravans sign in one stopover in one of your pictures. Are Aires that provide automated facilities (overnight) just for MH? Never intended to use one as we stay on sites for 3/4 nights on the journey, but would like to know if pushed it’ll be a wasted attempt.
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Thanks for the info on the N10
Going to the Dordogne in June from Ouistreham, non autoroute all the way(hopefully) so using the N10 from Tours to Angouleme via Poitiers. I've found a Les Routiers truck stop just south of Tours ata place called Vivonne to break the journey.
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Does that take you right through Perigueux? That really is a tiresome city to navigate.
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That one in the photo is strictly for motorhomes, I doubt you would physically be able to pitch car and caravan on it. That said I have seen caravans on some of the larger Aires, again not strictly allowed but in the winter months, with few sites open, it seems to be tolerated.
peedee
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Mix & match is my preferred option, the autoroutes can get boring whilst some sections of N roads have too many villages,roundabouts etc, you can usually get a fair idea simply looking at the map. Some autoroutes are a pain with the number of trucks making driving less than a pleasure. One of the newer deciding factors will be the speed limit of 80Kph which to stay within the law probably means your average speed will drop from around 38mph to 30mph for a days run on good N roads.
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We use the toll roads. For me the journey is not part of the holiday it’s a waste of day’s holiday. I want to get to my destination as efficiently as possible. When we retire then I may change my opinion but at the moment I am time poor so I am willing to pay for the convenience.
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Fair enough, but I don't have a destination to go to. I just travel. Perhaps I am using a caravan like a motorhome ?
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