Motorhome over 3500 kgs
Does anybody know if you can drive a motorhome over 3500kgs on a car licence or do you need to take a lorry test ?
Comments
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It depends on the categories your current licence allows.
As, JV says, when you passed your test has a bearing as does whether you are over 70.
See -
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/advice-for-beginners/driving-licences/
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I can. Easy, just check your licence. There are plenty of places around that will train and help you get the qualifications if not. I guess even this site would be able help.
Bit of a nonsense really, given that I have only ever driven cars and never anything over 3.5 but that's the ass law.
BTW, I am safe, no incidents so far but then again, I did take a familiarisation course.
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The law is a bit odd here - presumably because it wasn't drafted with us in mind. Are they ever?
I've just traded a van rated at 3500kg which, had I wished to retain my C1+E licence at the age of 70, I could have had uprated to 3880kg. I have bought one originally rated for up to 4250kg and had it downplated to 3500kg. In both cases no alteration to the vehicle was needed - it's purely a paper exercise. So in practice I shall be driving a vehicle designed to be over 3500kg, but because of the licence categories, it has to rated below that.
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No need to give up entitlements at age 70. Just pass the medical test.
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provided that the van has a reasonable payload, the great advantage with this approach is that the 'heavy' chassis has a rear axle weight of 2400kg over the 'light' 3.5t one of 2000kg, so far more usable way of distributing the load, whereas the light chassis can be easily compromised.
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I suggest you check out >these pages< about driving licences and medical conditions and down load and read what the medical examination requires after 70 to keep you C1 category which you will find >here<.
Hope it helps you make your mind up.
peedee
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If you can live with a lower payload, it is also possible to get the vehicle downplated to 3500kg. Can make the loading somewhat critical, so it's worth doing your sums first.
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wye, i post this to raise your awareness potential weight issues with MH of this type....this is not a swipe at Bailey, as Swift are also marketing similarly sized/shaped vans....
this van is approx 8m long, and, despite being upplated to 3850kg, it runs on the 'light' Fiat/Peugeot chassis which has axle limits of 1850 front and 2000kg rear....
a similar '79' series van was reviewed in MMM last month and the testers highlighted the following.....obvious really.....'beware the potential to overload the rear axle'...
from memory....the MIRO weight was approx 3300kg+ which 'appears' to give a 'payload' of 550kg....about the minimum many recommend for a couple on tour.....
However, with the shape/layout of this van (huge rear overhang) its probably about right to say the weight distribution (unladen) would be about 45/55% front/rear....possibly even more on the rear....
55% of 3300kg is 1815kg, which means this is the weight on the rear axle in MIRO, which includes no water on board and no passenger...
add in your OH (nominal 75kg) and a tank of water (100kg) and the weight goes upto 3475kg...apparently with still a 375kg 'payload'.
however, 55% of this is...1911kg....which means the rear axle is within 89kg of its limit BEFORE you put ANYTHING in the van......
however, due to the fulcrum effect of that huge overhang, any weight placed at the rear would exert more force on the rear axle than the apparent weigh, so just a paltry 50kg placed at the rear would bring the van to its limit.
and if my 45/55 guess were nearer to 43/57 then the axle weight would be just about reached...with NO EFFECTIVE PAYLOAD.
i post this to raise awareness of how easy it is to forget that this is a long, wide, heavy van, marketed on a 'license friendly' 3.5t chassis (albeit paper upplated) which will turn out to be very license unfriendly if plod takes you to a weighbridge...
so, if you are serious about a van like this, here is a suggestion....
get the dealer to fill it with water and use weighing pads to weigh both axles with you and your OH in it to check the rear axle loading as this is critical...
remember, you are a caravanner and everything you currently place in your towcar and caravan has to be carried in the MH......
this will be several hundred kg.....tables, chairs, food, clothes, bedding, maps, books, electrical items, windbreaks, hoses, fluids, tools, water carriers, wine, wine, wine....etc, etc....
please, go and weigh this van ......either to put your mind at ease....or to see its shortcomings...
in all honesty, this van should only be available on the 'heavy' chassis which gives a rear axle loading of 2400kg......however, it isnt , even as an option.....
on the 'light' chassis, my view is that it isnt fit for purpose.....that is carrying two people, a tank of water and all their stuff, legally and safely.
good luck.
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further to my above post, although the 'concerns' were raised by MMM reviewers, no 'absolute' data was supplied...ie the vehicle was not weighed by the testers.
to me this is equally (far more?) important that measuring a bed, or ceiling height..
similarly, we all know how extras can affect the price, hence testers usually give a 'price as tested' figure to show just how much this can change things...
so, why not a 'weight as tested' which would include all the extras packs, rather than just the bare bones manufacturers figure...
in my previous post i mentioned lots of things that can add weight but didnt mention any factory fit option packs, dealer added accessories etc, like sat systems, twin leisure batteries, inverters, secong gas bottle and that sneaky one....auto transmission (for fiat or merc.....).
i am in conversation with MMM over this issue and they are considering whether this might form part of future tests...
there is a discussion here on the MMM forum extolling the different viewpoints including those of the actual tester of the Bailey in question...
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Hi Wye, I had the oldies medical last May, and passed!! My birthday was in July but I was advised on this site that it took DVLA months to process the medical info and issue new licence. Nothing like that in reality. I had my eyes tested in January and my optician completed that part of the form for me in May, no charge. Had the medical at 9am on a Saturday morning in my GP surgery in May, no charge, but was told previously that a £89 charge would apply. The medical took 30 minutes and covered all the basics such as BP, weight, urine, full exam on the couch and loads of questions about lifestyle, incl alcohol intake! The doc had to fill the huge form in as we went through the checks, but providing you dont have any serious problems you will pass. As my doc said at the time, it is a great MOT and worthwhile.
I posted the forms by registered post and had my new plastic licence back in 5 days and can still drive anything upto 7.5 tonne. But will have to do it all again in 2 years and a bit, unless I buy a new flashy streamlined all singing all dancing German super lightweight van, at only 3500 kg, and that is not likely!
Dont be put off, go for it.
BillC
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Bill (and Wye) the issue is not whether Wye will have the license groups to drive the 3850kg Bailey (retaining them after 70 with a medical is done by many, as you say)....the issue is with the van, not Wye's license.
the problem is that the rear axle of the van (max capacity 2000kg) will be close to 1900kg with no passenger or water in the van....based on 55% pf the 3395kg MIRO weight.
with the main storage area being under the rear bed (slung well out beyond the rear axle) any weight added will exert more force than the weight itself.
this means the rear axle only has about 60kg spare, BEFORE even Mrs Wye gets in it.....
add in water and the typical long list of 'stuff' carried, this van has the potential to be seriously overloaded.
remember, Wye is a caravanner and all the kit that went in his towcar (and caravan) has to be carried in the MH...
i strongly suggest Wye visits a Bailey dealer with one of these vans and weighs it with him and Mrs Wye aboard...this will be a starting position.
without fancy air suspension and other tricks, its not easy (possible?) to uprate the rear axle capacity, and who wants to be doing this on a brand new van.....isnt it better to find a van with at least some capacity?
the 'light' chassis is a limiting factor and the longer/heavier the van (and apart from the Swift at over 8m, this is one of the biggest) the less capacity there is for people and their necessary possessions.
Bill, your Kontiki is on a 4250kg 'heavy' chassis with a much higher rear axle loading (2400kg) so you dont have the same weight issues. IMHO this is exactly how the Bailey should have been built....they are broadly similar layout vans with similar lengths with the Swift being 250+ kg heavier...
good luck.
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Hi BB,
I totally agree with you about the Bailey above. No point in buying a new van that is not fit for purpose.
when I saw the ferry cancellations at Poole this morning I thought of you. Thought you were leaving about now.
BillC
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OH has the 'flu'....i had it for 3 weeks....since before Christmas...
we are still babysitting for darling GD....trying desperately to escape...help! in need of serious sunshine....
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Just for clarity I would add that when we mention "grandfathered" C1+E entitlement on licenses, they are restricted C1+E unless you have passed your full C1+E test. This is indicated as a restriction in column 12 on the rear of your license under C1+E code 107 which means the maximum combined weights of vehicle and trailer cannot exceed 8250kg. If you have full C1+E by passing your test and other requirements this restriction (107) is removed and you are permitted a combined weight of 12000kg.
I point this out as a friend of mine was towing a car and googled what category C1+E permitted him to drive and tow, but did not read the section which mentions the 107 restriction which meant he had been driving illegally for years
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The best thing you can do is to phone and ask the DVLA.
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