Motorhome berths vs seat belts
I have been looking at quite a few Motorhomes, I have found that lots of them are 4 berth with two seat belts. Also 6 berth with 2 seat belts and some with 4 seat belts. I don't fully understand how this isn't a matching figure mostly.
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Rich, this is a very common state of affairs and makes life difficult for families.
Most MHs only seem to have the two belted cab seats, although bigger vans sometimes sport more in the rear, and I think this is in part due to the difficulty in fitting passenger seats to comply with legal requirements.
Also, there is a problem with available payload. For instance, if an adult weighs 100kg and each seat that complies with legal requirements weighs 15kg, that would use 230kg for two belted seats and passengers which is a huge chunk of the available payload in many MHs. My figures are obviously a generalisation but you can see what I'm getting at.
The law regarding the carrying of passengers in unbelted seats in the rear of a MH is a minefield and I don't pretend to understand it. That's quite apart from the wisdom of carrying passengers in unbelted seats even if it is legal.
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agree with TW that the provision of belted seats will add weight and reduce (precious in a 3500kg van) payload..
however, i would say that most continental vans (with their half dinette lounge arrangements) do provide four belted seats.
for a twin sofa lounge (front or rear) as in many UK vans, this provision is 'tricky/impossible/illegal' (delete as applicable).....
some uk manufacturers (certainly Swift and Auto Trail) have optional dinette seating (in place of one of the sofas) to provide two extra belts.
AT even have a full dinette option in some larger vans to add four extra belts.
the issue then is how to make seats with high backs and fixed belts into comfortable beds, not easy, hence the move to an over lounge drop down one piece bed matching the berths to the belt count.
the inevitible downside of all this extra 'gubbins' is weight and these 'upgrades' are usually only available with a mandatory chassis upgrade to at least 3650kg or 3850kg but neither of these upgrades actually increase the individual axle weights so be very careful of trying to run a van with four occupants at one of these weights......six persons will be almost impossible to manage legally.
if you can get a proper chassis upgrade to the 'heavy' 4250kg one, the axle allowances are much higher but you will need the appropriate license groups to drive it.
this is a real issuefor younger families.....they need the payload but may not have the license groups, where as some older couples have the license but dont need the extra capacity.
good hunting BUT be very careful and be sure to weigh (including axle weights) any prospective purchase with all your famiy aboard, make an allowance for water, and a proper estimate of all the 'stuff' you wish to carry.
DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING the salesman or the brochure says regarding payload......weigh the actual van.
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Rich
TW explains the technicalities very well.
However coming from a different direction there are lots of people who will buy a motorhome capable of sleeping, say, four people but only ever intend to use it as a two berth because they enjoy the extra space and manufacturers, well at least UK ones, seem to understand this and design their ranges accordingly. The reverse of that is that there are some PVC's (panel van conversions) that have four seat belts but can only sleep two! My motorhome can sleep four but only has two seat belts and I am perfectly happy with that. I did have the choice of the identical body length with a front dinette which would have provided two extra seat belts but we knew from the out set we were very unlikely to have passengers.
If you are thinking of changing from a caravan to a motorhome you need to work out exactly what you want in terms of berths and sleeping arrangements and once you have decided that it will become easier to work out which are the best motorhomes for your use. I would also suggest that you try and get to the NEC in February where you can see all the different ranges from both UK and Continental makers and they might help narrow down the choice available to you.
Good Luck
David
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Bottom line is that no one should travel in a vehicle without a seatbelt.
However occupied forward facing seats whilst travelling require seat belts. Parallel side facing seats do not require seat belts whilst travelling. Quirky old law still in existence.
Likewise you do not need third party insurance if you're going to save someone at sea... yes that's true....another quirkey old law that hasn't been updated.
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perhaps Rich (OP) could let us know if he was just curious about the (common?) situation he describes or if he was looking for more depth based on 'purchasing' questions surrounding multi berth motorhomes.
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My Majestic has four travel seats but only three berths and the third one is only suitable for a masochistic child.
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Heresy in the Motorhome section but, let’s face it, a Caravan is far more suitable for a family. I do see many continental motorhomes with young children because the continental dinette design is more able to accommodate front facing seats but payload is a big problem which I suspect is ignored frequently overseas. Perhaps that’s the solution - go foreign.
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i agree with Hitch in that running a family MH, with upto 4 occupants, at 3500t will be 'tricky' to say the least.....the sixberth ones must be close to illegal all the time there are a full complement of passengers...
...an OH, two teenagers, and two smaller kids will weigh at least 300kg on their own, on a large family van that even suggests a 'payload' of 500kg (not in the real world) you will be overloaded (certainly on the rear axle) as soon as a bit of water and 'stuff' is loaded.
has to be a caravan, better space, a car to wheel the brood around, etc.
however, many folk manage by transporting kids (if the chosen site is not too far) in a second vehicle and some bring a tent to accommodate them.....
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Do you know what? The OP is a caravanner who's just ordered a new BMW tow car.
It seems his observations are just that.
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Hi
It is an observation as I may change to a motorhome and that's why I was looking at them. I didn't claim it to be anything other than that. Ordering a new BMW would have no bearing on weather I buy a motorhome or not. I will use the car far more solo than for towing
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I know you claimed nothing, Rich, but people have made assumptions that you’re changing units. You refer to using the BMW as a tow car in your other post so I concluded, correctly, that an imminent change is not on the cards.
Whatever, your knowledge of MHs has now been enhanced.
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Rich, thanks for the heads up, happy to help if you need a bit more advice, good luck with your observations.
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Whilst agreeing with all the previous posts, especially regarding payload, if you need extra full forward seating with belts Elddis have a great solution. They have 'fold away' aircraft type seats under the two front bench seats. My daughter says they are comfortable.
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We own a 6 berth but only 4 seatbelts.
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Current UK law says that forward facing MH rear seats must have seat belts and be used if carrying passengers. However parallel side facing seats do not require to have seat belts and rear passengers do not need to wear them.
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Although side facing seats do not require seat belts it would be very unwise to travel on one. Indeed it would be unwise to travel on one wearing seat belts too, which may be found on older vehicles.
As I understand, the current seat belt regs refer to designated travel seats that must be fitted with seat belts. Side facing seats are not designated for travel and it could be argued that the driver is carrying passengers dangerously. This may lead to a conviction and insurance deemed to be invalid.
For the past 8 years my insurance company has asked how many seat belts are fitted to my MH so there is no escaping how many passengers I can carry.0 -
Which brings us back to my comment on page 1 about the law being a minefield in that respect.
Just to illustrate the safety issue, some years ago there was a case in the Westcountry where a local vet was in the rear of his MH sat at a table doing paper work while someone else drove. The window beside him fell out and the force of the draught sucked him out into the road. He was lucky but it could easily have been fatal.
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Having 28 years in the insurance game and qualified up to the hilt the insurance company cannot overrule the law of the land. The law is not grey but clearly black and white. You can travel unbelted in the back of a motorhome with side facing seats.
Naturally I question the safty aspect but that's up to the individul and driver. I have parallel seats and I would not entertain anyone travelling unbelted.
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I doubt it was very great, ABM
It was quite a long time ago and I think it was one of those vans, popular at the time, with a deep window beside the dinette. Not the size windows you and I have - I’d not fit though one of them.
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Elddis have a policy of berths = belts.
I don’t understand any other way. I think it should be against the law to hav3 more berths than belts, or are the manufacturers expecting people to take a care everywhere, might as well have a caravan!
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Kev, I think the MO is that a MH can accommodate guests who have (say) driven to the site for a few days....
the main design issue is that, for a MH as in my example, to have 4 travel seats would require a different shape of lounge (safety seats etc) to that which the purchasers require....say, twin side sofas
yes, there are folding safety seats these days which emerge from side seats, but they are very heavy, very bulky (robbing under seat storage) and an expensive option, especially when used one or twice...
unless one takes passengers regularly, far better (for the odd occasion) to get guests to meet you....and they bring a handy car, too
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I guess that is fine for a couple who want some more space and an occasional use but what about families? The choice goes down greatly if a 4 berth mh is required with 4 belts.
we have just ordered an Elddis sunseeker 155 with the fold away seats, which I think are a good option as we do carry passengers a bit when visiting kid etc, yes we have parallel seating with swivel front seats and a fixed bed.
We find the parallel seating at the front more open than the forward facing lounge seating option, and the wife likes it feeling open.
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Almost all European models have a half dinette up front with 2 extra belted seats, whereas UK vans tend to only offer this as an option.
so, there's actually a massive choice of four berth, four belted vans, just that most are continental with a fixed bed(s) in the rear and another up front, usually a drop down of some sort...
ours is only 6.4m long but has four belted seats and two large double beds...
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