Charging electric cars on Club sites.
Comments
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From comments in the past, Malcolm has admitted to being a prolific consumer of electricity ( air-con, awning heating etc). Acquisition of an EV is enabling him to ramp up his consumption even further. As others have observed, metering is going to be the only equitable way to deal with a proliferation of such energy requirements.
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As others have observed, metering is going to be the only equitable way to deal with a proliferation of such energy requirements.
Who says that it has to be scrupulously equitable? I isn't at present. I contribute towards the provision and maintenance of dog walks, repair to awning damage on grass pitches, kiddies play areas. Not equitable as I generally do not use grass pitches if there is hard standing, do not use an awning, have children or dogs. So what.
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Please don’t bring ‘fairness & logic’ into this thread ET, I’m not sure the ardent & committed witch hunters would understand😂
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I read somewhere that a small site which had recently installed electricity metering found that the overall site's electricity bill just about halved as a result. I expect it helps to focus the minds of those who choose to squeeze as much as possible out of their individual 16 amp supply.
I am in favour of metering per pitch on campsites.
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The simplest answer in the short term is.......
EV's parked in the visitor car park = free
EV's parked on pitch = £3 per night.
No additional cost to the Club, no legitimate complaint from EV owners.....!
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I don't see the issue with asking for an extra fee if folk intend to charge an EV. No need at all to go down the expensive route of installing meters. Folk will be honest enough to pay it, as they do with other charges.
Do wardens count the number of children, who may have remained in the vehicle? Or on sites that charge, count the number of dogs? I suspect they just rely on folk being honest. So why any problems in doing the same for EV's.
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At present, if we partially charged our EV on a site we'd probably still be using less electricity than others with lots of appliances and heating systems. I can see why the club feels all is ok just now. We could also blame van manufacturers for increasing electrical usage on site etc etc. I am quite happy for hybrid owners to charge up their relatively small batteries and at the moment they are the more likely car owners who will be seen doing so. If the club notices any upsurges in electricity usage I'm sure they will act accordingly but just now it won't be happening.
If you're on a site this year, check out how many hybrids and Evs are around, I think the count will be quite low but maybe we'll start to see changes over the next two years?
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you have used electricity overnight to charge the EV in addition to your usual consumption.
There you go again, your usual consumption - there is no such thing. There is no pre set limit (apart from the 16A) that you are suggesting that everyone should dictate or use and anything above that is as you put it previously taking advantage.
Think of this, I buy a new TV for the caravan which I didn't have before, so now my usual consumption has now gone up? Of course it has and that has now become my usual consumption. I then buy a cordless drill and so that now becomes my usual consumption. I decide to charge my new camera, use my new microwave? slow cooker, I change from a 750W kettle to 2.5Kw or what ever new electric device I buy. Because I am on holiday not some boot (green) camp I will use what ever electricity (up to 16A or Kw) I need to enjoy my time away. Whatever I use is my now my usual consumption.
This is the point everyone is making, you will be using additional electricity that has to be paid for.
First of all everyone is making ? Where did you base that on?. everyone. There are posters on both sides I think you'll see if you actually go back and read them?
As for paying, that is the case for my new slow cooker, new 2Kw kettle, new TV and now my new EV. Have you never bought a new device that need electricity for your caravan? Well why should I pay for that increase in your usual consumption? Are you saying your devices are all OK and anyone else's are not based on your views? When you stop using all your electricity devices then maybe you may have a point. Yes all our electricity has to be paid for but it is paid by the club, not you or me. The club decides a pitch fee which has an all inclusive electricity built in. Just like any other leisure company that sells all inclusive holidays, food, wine... we accept the price and the club pays the bill.
EV owners cannot realistically expect all members to pay an increased pitch fee to cover these costs
Actually I can, for one thing I don't state which electrical devices you or anyone uses within their limit, why should you? and secondly it's the future I am sure that when EHU were rolled out a similar argument was made. Thirdly if the club does put up it's prices then members can then make their choice by not coming to club sites. But as one who says they don't use club sites that much why are you bothered?
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Glad to see you're not part of the K's 'everyone'
exactly, what is one personal usual consumption without an EV maybe much higher than another's consumption with an EV
I do really think that it is the idea of getting 'free' car energy or fuel that people are basing their view on. People who quite happily use their full allowance on whatever balk at using the same on EVs
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There seems to be a false argument here. Which is charging up my EV uses less electricity than someone who runs loads of appliances. Why can’t someone do both? They are not mutually exclusive, just because you have an EV it doesn’t automatically mean you are a low user of electricity in other aspects. I am not against electric vehicles far from it but why should they be subsidised? Metered pitches are the obvious solution, if you want to charge your Tesla or heat your awning then fine you pay for it. I can’t see how anyone object to this, as with the possible exception of Malcolm Mehta, no one on here is profligate in their use of electricity, we’ll no one is owning up.
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+1, good point M
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Reported.
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I have just spent ages catching up with this thread.
As I see it, electric used at the moment on site is for DOMESTIC use. Same as the use of LPG in bottles we buy.
For electric cars to be charged on site away from dedicated bollards is abusing the system completely.
to use examples:
Diesel bought at a service station is legal. Diesel (Red) obtained from a farm or similar, including boat yards is not legal.
LPG vehicles buying from a garage or similar is legal, although using domestic purchased LPG is avoiding taxes, same as LPG bought from boat yards.
so as you can see, there is right and wrong on purchase and use of fuels in this country.
The only way a fair way for EV cars to be charged on sites is to install rapid charge points similar to the ones available for cars NOT in a home environment.
I have to purchase and buy my fuel for my cars away from my pitch, in fact even site, so why should people with EV’s abuse the system and steal electric for the EV’s cars on a pitch???
Before anyone says about Disability carts being charged on site, they are for one person to enable them to continue a domestic lifestyle, NOT for them to hitch a caravan etc and go on holiday on stolen electric!
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I do really think that it is the idea of getting 'free' car energy or fuel that people are basing their view on. People who quite happily use their full allowance on whatever balk at using the same on EVs
Not at all, certainly in my case. I have long been an advocate of metered electricity and I see the charging of Hybrids and pure EVs on site as being just another reason for the introduction of metering. Its a competitive market and what the Club does will much depend on what others do about it. At the end of the day, as you say Corners, we all have a choice of where to go.
peedee
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"I change from a 750W kettle to 2.5Kw "
This demonstrates the lack of understanding between "power" and "energy" use.
Whilst boiling a litre of water in a 750 W kettle takes a lot less power, it actually takes more energy the very thing the club pays for, than using the 2.5 kW kettle. More because taking longer to boil it radiates more wild heat whilst doing so.
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I think brue has hit the nail on the head. No one now purchasing a new caravan balks at all the electrically dependent equipment now inbuilt, and most are more than happy paying whatever fees the Club sees fit to levy. The few EVs seen on sites are merely an extension of this move towards a different form of energy consumption, this time one either used for towing, or for getting around if MH is parked up. It matters not how the energy is consumed, the bottom line will be how much it costs the Club for an average pitch Night stay, and prices in the future will reflect this.
There are two main touring ethos, one is about getting away, enjoying all that is provided in the comfort, warmth and ease of a modern touring unit, without risk of any issues. Another is touring on a budget, either doing without some of the modern luxuries now available on sites, or adapting and modifying a unit so that it can be used on more basic pitches. (There are lots of folks who tour in between these two extremes) Nothing is wrong with either school of thought, it is what the individual prefers. But at some point, consumers will have to pay, and the Club is right at the moment not committing to one particular cost heavy change to electrical provision, until it sees what is going to be the take up.
The dilemma for the majority of CLs will be rather different. Much as it is now. They are going to be asked to provide more facilities, in this instance possibly charging points or metered hook ups, but will they be able to recoup the outlay? Much the same dilemma as providing hard standings, toilet blocks and other perceived necessities. New CL providers can look at trends and decide where they want to pitch their market. Not quite so easy for those CLs established for decades, who are now looking to retrospectively add in more amenities without pricing out established returning customers.
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The CMC has decreed that at the moment, customers with E/Vehicles can charge their cars at the CMC's expense while on the campsite.
I don't blame anybody for taking advantage of this facility.
Obviously at some time in the future the CMC may have to change their policy and at that time I'm sure that they will make their decision at management level. Opinions mentioned on this forum will make absolutely no difference to that management decision.
K
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As I see it, electric used at the moment on site is for DOMESTIC use. Same as the use of LPG in bottles we buy.
For electric cars to be charged on site away from dedicated bollards is abusing the system completely.
No abuse Vivien as the Club permit such usage
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Actually, I have to agree K. Club pitch fees were as cheap as chips when we joined three decades ago. Modern outfits/owners require and consume a lot more nowadays, and the prices charged have been hiked to take account of this on most sites, and during most of the opening periods. The Club does still provide for budget touring for those that can/ want to take advantage of it, via no facility Sites, mid week discounts, cheap Winter stays.
I suspect most of us take advantage of electricity when it is included in price, I know we do, using an electric kettle instead of gas, and charging up devices, cooking occasionally with electric rather than gas etc....
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So what you are saying, people who don’t have all singing and all dancing caravans, that tour alone on a budget have to be classed as second class club members, using sites with no facilities, sites that offer mid week discounts and cheap winter stays only?? That is creating a tiered system and as a member who pays the same inflated membership, should not have to discriminated!!
Next you will say I should pay a premium like hotels do, as I am on my own,
I do not use as much electric as a family, yet I still get charged the same. Why can’t I be charged for what I use?? Bring back meters
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This is starting to rival "Sunday Departures"
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I think that you are off topic Vivien. Maybe subject for another thread?
The simple fact is that you, as a single caravanner, are not excluded at all. You are equally as entitled to use a CC site ad pay the same fees.
TDA was simply saying that CC sites, as many others, are not 'cheap as chips' but that there were options for those wishing to use CC sites and pay less at the same time. Actually the cost for a single person is reasonable I feel without 'room supplement' so to speak.
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I do not use as much electric as a family, yet I still get charged the same. Why can’t I be charged for what I use?? Bring back meters
Why do you assume that families use significantly more power. You are charged based on the average usage the same as all. And there never were meters on CC sites that I recall over the past 35 years.
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