Deposits yes / no
Comments
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I think you are doing a disservice to club members, I've seen sites full in the Lakes and it's been pouring down for a few days sometimes over a weekend but sites still fun so I don't think most, a large most,do not cancel because of 'normal' weather. Maybe snow or high winds.
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Damn right!!!
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good point, and at least under the current system you would probably tell the site and allow for the possibility of the pitch being resold. If you have paid a deposit and no further sanctions you might think (btw as people did as no shows went down after deosits removed) well I've paid I'll lose the money why should I bother telling the site?
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True, depends though, how much is charged as a deposit. Make the deposit requirement substantial enough and it might just deter this practice
As you probably know, many commercial sites require the remaining full balance to be paid, well before any long range weather forecast is available. Canny or what?
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This needs putting to the test.
I'll pick a site that is currently showing full for an upcoming weekend. Make a note of it and if there's any wet weather forecast, I'll check late availability as that weekend approaches. We'll see how resilient the membership really is
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Well, I'm a bit confused now, Nigel (not that that's difficult mind!
) because I thought you liked the C&CC rolling system precisely because you can book up to a year in advance for events you're taking part in.Now, it looks like you're wanting folk to hang back on bookings just in case you need a site in a few weeks time?
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Your quite correct CS the sites are popular and if you want a pitch on the very popular ones you must book early. Earlier than you know for definite that you can fullfil the booking. But hey, why worry, you can cancel if it turns out you cannot make it or don't feel like going when the time comes.
Popular commercial sites take deposits and demand up front payment a couple or more months before arrival. They know which side of their bread is buttered.
peedee
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"Popular commercial sites take deposits and demand up front payment a couple or more months before arrival".
I wonder why
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You're dead right, don't be confused. I do like the C&CC rolling system because of the reason you point out. In particular for sport events I enter up to a year in advance sometimes.
But there are also times I plan to go away a couple of months in advance. As I stated above, if a site is full, it's full and thats fine, I don't have a problem with that. I'll book an alternative.
It's when that full site is suddenly only three quarters full as a certain date approaches, weather dependancy etc... too, late, I've booked the alternative. I'm still going to enjoy my break, it may not be ideal as Id have preferred to be on that Club site... and lets not forget the Club has lost out too.
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I'm in favour of deposits for the handful of sites that always seem full (Rowntree Park, Bristol Baltic Wharf etc) . I've tried to book a few nights at one of these sites but they are constantly full. I've rang the site and the warden says they do get cancelations regularly and I should keep on trying. I find it annoying that people block out weekends early in the season then cancel closer to the time. I do not think that every club site should take deposits just the 3 or 4 that are most busy.
99% of commercial sites take non refundable deposits & so should the 3 or 4 honeypot sites.
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Right then, I've made a few notes re three different sites that are showing full for weekends between now and Christmas, I've picked on 'H/S with awning' as these are the largest proportion pitches on most sites.
If we're due any wet weekends that are forecast prior to Tuesday evening of that week, I'll take a look at those sites on the late availability list as the weekend approaches. I'll also monitor any vacancies that appear after the 72 hour 'deadline. For arguments sake, I'll call this as 8pm Tuesday of the relevant week
Ive selected one well known 'honeypot' and two not so 'honeypot' but are still showing full.
We'll see...
If I've missed anything obvious, let me know
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With CC you cannot book 'H/S with awning' or are these hard standing only sites .... possibly at this time of year.
We would not accuse you of cheating Nigel (well I wouldn't - trusting fella you see) but how will we know what the chosen sites are showing at present or do we go on trust?
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Yes, the sites I've noted, I've looked at the 'Hardstanding with Awning' calendars.
They're all showing full as of about 1/2 an hour ago. Feel free to pick some sites and do something similar yourself.
I'm just keen to know if weather has as big effect as suspected. If the sites in question only have a small handful of vacancies appear as those weekends' approach, you might say this is to be expected, I'm looking for substantial changes in availability should a wet weekend be forecast.
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I went through a similar exercise a couple of years ago but I didn't do it for a forecasted wet or poor weather weekend, shame the comments were lost in the website upgrade. One of the snap shots was of an Easter weekend.
What the Easter one showed was a surge of cancellations approaching the 72hour deadline but these were quickly taken up by late bookers. In all cases my interpretation was the Club was not losing money over the weekends I looked at but I concluded it could be frustrating for those members who may have wanted those pitches but they were not available when the wanted to book. I may still have the spread sheets I created for the analysis. If I have I am happy to repost them.
peedee
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Typically every weekend between now and Christmas will no doubt be glorious
However if there happens to be snow or a Storm Desmond equivalent, then I'd expect there to be lots of cancellations and to be fair, rightly so. I'm more interested in the effect of 'prolonged rain' to quote meteoricallyI'll watch the Countryfile 7 day forecast with interest
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Tricky one Easter weekend. If you don't book very early for some sites they are gone. If part of a couple then one of you might not be able to agree your leave soon enough. Where a friend worked nearly everyone wanted time off and it was finalised by drawing lots in February
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I think it may have been the year before, 2014, when it snowed over much of the country just before Easter. I was pitched at an almost deserted Troutbeck Head.
Climbed Skiddaw from Keswick... had to wear crampons... in April!!!
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I remember peedee's work on this
IIRC pitches were snapped up pretty quickly (I think I snapped one up myself) and the club were plus or minus nothing.
Annoying if you'd wanted to book months before but great for people like me who decide to go away when we find a free weekend. (We don't get much notice due to the particular complications of the employment we have)
So what are we trying to do? Make things work better for those who like booking 3-6 weeks in advance when there's clearly a group who are more than willing to pick up spaces on late availability?
The trouble with attempting to draw conclusions from the availability calendar is that there are people who may have booked one site but ring to swap to another if it comes free. You also find a number of pitches get released back into the system a couple of days before. Some are taken out and put back for operational reasons. We just don't have enough information to draw any meaningful conclusions
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You’ve missed the fact that you need to do the analysis every weekend, irrespective of weather, to make it more meaningful. Otherwise you’ll have no way of knowing if bad weather was a factor.
That's you occupied for the foreseeable future, Nige.
By the way, 72 hours runs back from 1200hrs on the day of arrival, not 8pm. Let’s get this as accurate as possible, eh?
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Here is the OP I posted back in early 2015
"The question I have been asking myself is, “Are cancellations a significant problem?”
Because the Club has so far not produced any absolute figures to pass judgement, I set about trying to answer this question by checking and recording in a spread sheet the number of pitches available for the Easter weekend of 10th to 12th April 2015. I did this on a number of days on the run up to the weekend for all sites and for a number of popular sites.
The late availability checks were carried out in the early mornings of the 26th and 31st March and the 5th,6th,7th and 8th April, Tuesday the 7th April being the last day Friday cancellations could be made without penalty. Here are graphs of the results with my comments:
Click on the above to enlarge
Changes in the day to day figures showed there were some cancellations, but not enough to cause concern. There is certainly not enough evidence to indicate a large number of last minute cancellations and there was plenty of availability in the network largely in Scotland and the south and southwest of the UK. Over the 15 days of monitoring, availability for the Friday and Saturday nights decreased by about 15 percent which indicated a steady trend of late bookings, possibly driven by a fine weather forecast.
Popular sites
The individual sites I checked were:
Broadway Caravan Club Site
Moreton-In-Marsh Caravan Club Site
Burrs Country Park Caravan Club Site
Southport Caravan Club Site
Wirral Country Park Caravan Club Site
Chatsworth Park Caravan Club Site
Abbey Wood Caravan Club Site
Brighton Caravan Club Site
Lady Margaret's Park Caravan Club Site
Bridlington Caravan Club Site
Knaresborough Caravan Club Site
York Beechwood Grange Caravan Club Site
York Rowntree Park Caravan Club Site
Click on the above to enlarge
The same trends which were seen over the whole network were largely reflected in the popular sites selected for monitoring with the observation of a peak of cancellations 5 days before the start of the weekend. This represented less than 2 percent of bookings and these were again picked up by late bookings and by the 7th April, the availability had declined to almost zero for the Friday and Saturday nights. Again this may possibly have been driven by a fine weather forecast.
It is evident that if this pattern is repeated over the year then cancellations are not a problem and it appears there is no need for the Club to change its cancellation policy.
It would be interesting to repeat the exercise when there is a forecast for a wet weekend.
The Club certainly does not seem to be losing money because of cancellations however late the few maybe so has no incentive to change."
The only thing I have altered from the original is to clarify the date of the observations.
ET has made the point it was an Easter weekend. At that time you would expect there to be a great demand for pitches and any cancellations to be taken up. This may not be the case for other weekends especially if the weather was forecasted to be poor.
peedee
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Thanks TW
I'll happily look at it over the next few weeks and make some notes. Can't promise a spreadsheet but I'll happily give relevant details.
Thanks for verifying when the 72hr deadline kicks in, I didn't know that.
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peedee, well done for finding that info, interesting. Just heading out for a curry in Warwick (anyone ever staying at the Racecourse, Saffron Gold, it's a wonderful Indian restaurant)
I'll have a read later :-)
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That's one difference between an individual site and sites belonging to tbe Club. The individual site has no other 'clout' than to charge a deposit to stop people letting them down. The Club has a warning system. If folk do not turn up they are given a handful of warnings after which further action is taken. Unfortunately this has resulted in a small number of suspensions. Fortunately, most folk are responsible and heed to the warnings and so don't just fail to turn up, enabling the Club a small window in which to re-let the pitch. This also gives a small number the opportunity to pick up a pitch last minute if they are unable to book further in advance. The Club have found that this system works better than when they used to take deposits. Furthermore, to take payments effectively 'in stages' is more expensive than taking one payment, which would inevitably be passed on.
Personally, I prefer the current system.
David
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Thanks, David, for providing a clear explanation of how things work and the reasons the system is what it is.
For me, that wraps the issue up.
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+1 for me too
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