Deposits yes / no
Comments
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While I accept David's (DSB) explanation other than the cost of introducing stage payments, I am not so positive about the system as it stands as some of you. For me the penalty of misbehaving is too weak and the 72 hour window needs to be widened plus it would be nice to see believable statistics of exactly how it is working.
Complaints keep on cropping up time and time again, not all from the same members so all it the garden is not that rosey. I have a suspicion while the initial introduction of the current system had an impact, could it be wearing off and is it right for the future?
peedee
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Peedee
Whilst I agree with you that it would be nice to have some more detailed information from the Club I am concerned that some may be supporting the sledgehammer to crack a nut theory. I think what DSB posted was very sensible. I could be wrong but I don't see much evidence that the Club is about to make wholesale changes? I would also question whether that would be wise. Beyond deposits where are the changes that are simple to implement? Perhaps the 72 hour rule is the easiest but what do you change it to in order to make if more effective as some people see it. Should it be 84 hours or a week. Anything beyond that is starting to be draconia given that we are a members Club for which we pay a fair sized membership fee each year which is meant to give us some benefits. Trying to restrict in some ways how many weekends you can book or setting aside pitches for weekend or whole weeks would be a nightmare to administer. The real danger is that whatever changes are made to the system whilst maybe helping some may well alienate an equal number that are currently quite happy with the system.
David
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Because there are no deposits the mad booking day will continue. Deposits put a break on speculative bookings. At present it's a free for all which doesn't matter to those who can chop and change easily but for others with fixed holidays a block of speculative weekend bookings can spoil their plans. If the club wants to encourage new members who are still working the process needs to be revamped, at present it favours retirees with time on their hands.
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Equally it favours those who are working and prepared/able to plan ahead. If ones employment does not provide the ability to book holidays ahead (many do) then that is a problem of their employment.
Life is not simple for all Brue. There are the same problems booking log cabins or other holidays if not preplanned. Then you have to restrict your choice to what is available when you eventually book. Harsh but a fact of life.
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Complaints keep on cropping up time and time again, not all from the same members so all it the garden is not that rosey. I have a suspicion while the initial introduction of the current system had an impact, could it be wearing off and is it right for the future?
Those that complain do have something in common. They are unable to make a booking of their choice.
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One thing wrong with your statement . Most employers require staff to put Holiday dates in, in the new year , any time off already booked for in the new year is from the previous years allowance and normally confined to to the first couple of months.
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I wonder if it was a rolling year whether folks would feel the need to block book speculatively? Cos instead of one 'sit down' session it would need to be weekly/monthly.
That is of course if speculative booking exist. Maybe they'e not all made on frenzy day?
I agree that the system needs reviewing if the club want to attract younger folk and families as frenzy day won't suit most people who work or have to get kids to school even if they get the day 'free'. My holiday year has always started 1 April and until our son started a new job a couple of years ago I didn' know anyone whose leave didn't start 1 April. His starts 1 January. In NZ our daughter acquires leave by the day as her year progresses , so early holidays in your year may incur a deficit 😲 .
We were able to put our requests in the diary before 1 April but it wasn't guaranteed until approved after 1 April. Being a small department it was generally first come first granted. But we were of a certain age and school holidays didn't affect our team bar one person. Could have been very different if the ratio was the other way round!
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I think you mis understand. the day the bookings are released is way before people have had the chance to submit their leave request and have them approved.
Unless you work in teaching or a company that has an annual shutdown period then your stuffed.
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I agree that the system needs reviewing if the club want to attract younger folk and families as frenzy day won't suit most people who work or have to get kids to school even if they get the day 'free'.
There is no real need to book on day one. I book all the year simply because, as KjNell found this year if I leave booking until I return from one trip before booking the next I will struggle to get the sites that I want, when I want in many areas. When I return form a holiday around 20th December that gives me a little over 7 weeks before my next September trip. From my experience that is not enough. So I would book 3 months ahead at start of June - problem is that I am not at home and prefer not to faff with bookings whilst on holiday.
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the only way that deposits would end or break speculative booking ( again what is the evidence that it actually exists - the club says no) is to have non refundable deposits. Otherwise I could book six months in advance and cancel within the allowed period and get my money back, ie the same state as now. So you would have to extend the cancellation period, to what? a week? more than that is a bit OTT? But whenever it is unless you are suggesting a non refundable deposit there will be no difference?
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Family holidays can take a considerable amount of leg work to organise, it's easy to forget how much pressure there is on two week holidays at peak times. Personally I'm not sure I'd attempt it with a club site using the present system and would be looking elsewhere or at CLs. I would like to hear from families what they think about booking day and deposits.
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It is a few weeks ahead of January. If you are telling me that folk are unable to get April leave approved until 1st of April I will not disagree.
The only way to address what seems to me to be a failing of the works holiday booking system, Is to have resume of the period of bookings in June perhaps rather than April. How do the other 99% of the working community who are not caravanners manage to book Easter holidays I wonder?
I do not see that a rolling system would benefit them either.
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well except that all the people on sites throughout the summer can't all be teachers or have annual shutdowns, so the system seems to work?
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so the system seems to work?
Or not, as it is. Hence this discussion
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If folk do not have leave granted in advance of Easter how do they manage to book any holiday for the Easter period? This would not be a problem specific to the caravanning community. I am sure that they do not try and book a weeks holiday on 1st April do they?
Do they take a punt and pay a deposit to secure an Easter holiday hoping that employer agrees? At least if caravanning with CC they can do so and cancel without penalty. Perhaps they do?
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This is becoming silly now. We are not trying to put the UK holiday industry right, we are, or I thought we were, discussing how the "Club" could possibly improve how pitch availability is controlled.
As already said, many of us are retired so have the freedom to book early or take what is available nearer the time , Some it would seem book with no firm commitment to the dates, that's wrong even if within the rules and deprives others who can't be as flexible with thier dates.
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well going by full (ish) sites are all those people who have manged to make a booking can't all be teachers or have annual fixed holiday?
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Not me being silly Milo. You suggested that December booking was not fair to those working because their leave was not sorted. Well you cannot expect everybody to wait until is sorted.
I do not only book CC sites. Some commercial sites do fill up as well at certain times. As I have a mix of CC sites and commercial I need to get all the ducks in a row to suit my plans. That means booking earlier rather than later. C&CC allow booking 12 months ahead. Stopping members booking well ahead is not the answer.
What is the answer? I don't think that the answer is deposits. Club has been there and tried that.
If the CC want to maximise bookings then maybe up until 30 days ahead only 3 day bookings at weekends, 4 day at bank holidays and in peak season.
Would suit me fine generally but not something that I would wish for.
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In order to suggest a solution which will agree with all members then you will have to look at different models used in the leisure industry or even a new and novel one.
The thing is the system currently in place probably suits most members over and above the alternatives discussed on here. As having managed folks holidays we were able to give provisional dates out to employees a year in advance which were subject to confirmation at a later date. Everyone realised this was subject to colleagues retiring, others leaving having found alternative employment and even on one occasion the loss of a fellow work mate. Must say mind that heaven and earth was moved to honour the wishes of the employee and their colleagues wherever and whenever possible.
Again the current system allows such flexibility and refundable deposits would have no effect at all on the outcome. The big issue and problem for refundable deposits would be how to justify returning deposits to some and not others. No one has defined that criteria and if ache over whatever it became it would still be open to misuse and manipulation. At least the system we have now is transparent.
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In order to to suggest a solution we first need to know the problem. I see two and neither affect me at present.
1 Some members cannot get the desired bookings because sites are booked full at weekend. Suggested Solution is for them to look elsewhere, book earlier or the club to hold pitches back in some way.
2. SItes full in week and could be more use in week if folk could also get a weekend. Suggested Solution minimum length of booking at weekends until nearer that time.
I don't have a suggestion that would suit all. Does anyone?
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that's the thing, no solution (if one is needed) would.
The first come first served appears to be the best? Deposits won't change the demand
the only other way is for club sites not be so popular?
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the only other way is for club sites not be so popular?
Soon Solved. 50% increase on prices. Minimum 4 nights booking. Solved!Seriously what is the problem? That depends on who is answering the question.
Some say that it is because all pitches are taken when they wish to go. Solution for them is to book earlier. K could not get his desired sites for September booking in late July. His solution was to book elsewhere he could equally have booked ear;ier. I doubt that he sees a great problem for himself however and if he does he knows how to address it.
So to all. What is your particular problem with CC booking. I don't have one personally.
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I bet many could guess what change I would like to see - the ability to book either hardstandings or grass pitches at the point of booking. Although I have absolutely no inside information, I think the change of name 'to make motorhomers more inclusive' has got to be a step in this direction. Many motorhomes require hardstandings because of their weight and I think it would be a really divisive issue to allow motorhomers to book HS and not caravanners.
Apologies for introducing that here - just responding to DK's post. Please feel free not to respond - we've done this to death in the past, but I can assure the Club it has not been forgotten! 🎶
David
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Many motorhomes require hardstandings because of their weight and I think it would be a really decisive issue to allow motorhomers to book HS and not caravanners.
I take it that you meant Divisive (not decisive) David. However such a move would, for me be, indeed be decisive if MHs had first choice of hard stand. That would greatly reduce my use of CC sites.
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Everything is ok for you but it would be interesting to know about those with more constrained holiday plans and ask how they feel. I'm thinking of people who have to wait till the New Year to book and are looking for a family break of say, two weeks. The way to check whether their plans are blocked by weekend bookings would be to look just after New Year and see how many clear weeks are available on popular sites at peak times. If this shows up plenty of room for all then this is ok. If it looks as though weekend bookings are blocking family holidays then I would consider whether bookings should be taken with a deposit to reduce the impact.
Just my thoughts, I personally don't like booking day but if others do it's not a problem. Can't think how many times some of us have written this, five years worth of opinions I think!?
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I'm thinking of people who have to wait till the New Year to book and are looking for a family break of say, two weeks.
I suspect that, come New Year, availability is not generally a problem on sites. However If there is a problem it does not apply solely to caravanners but to anybody trying to book such a holiday.
When OH last worked all leave for the full year had to be in first or second week in January to have a chance of first choice. Start of February staff knew if they had got the dates.
Those with families generally got pick of the school hol dates which was usually fine by those without children ..... unless they had a partner in teaching etc
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neither do I, like all things in life you learn by experience and change your behaviour accordingly to suit. ie food sold out by 4pm? get there earlier, all the free parking spaces gone... you get the idea.
book earlier
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I do get the idea Corners.
I can think of a number of occasions when away that we have wanted to visit a small town and have left the caravan about 8.45 and parked in a car park with plenty of space by 9.30. If passing the car park an hour later I have seen cars searching for a space.
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