Chatsworth Chains
Comments
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I think we all understand how it can work elsewhere BB, many of us do tour outside UK, but as micky said on page 5 there would need to be other changes too if an arrive anytime system was to be adopted, so simple it is not.
The last thing we would want is for site fees to be increased as more staff were needed, they are already high enough, so at present we need to work with what we have.
There are probably more sites with access problems than you might think, it is not just the actual site entrance but the approach roads too, and in pretty much every case there is very little the Club can do about that. So in quite a few cases an arrive any time system would only make things worse.
By setting latest departure and earliest arrival times the Club is trying to minimise access problems, but if members do not stick to these times I don't know what more can be done. I would actually be in favour of a longer interval between "latest departure" and "earliest arrival" on all sites, as them both being 12 noon is just asking for trouble
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Me too, BB. Been browsing this thread with a smug grin. I can't se what all the 'best pitch' fuss is about since it's just somewhere to park up early (or late) evening with basic facilities before heading out all the next day around the area, returning for a night's kip............before heading out all the next.......(repeat as necessary).
Different for a caravanner I suppose.
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Perhaps the Club need to be a bit more upfront with explaining the situation on sites such as Chatsworth, and a very small minority of other Club sites that have a 1.00pm arrival time because of difficult access. Rather than say no arrivals before 1.00pm they should say you will be turned away if you arrive prior to this time. That is a bit more unequivocal and perhaps would discourage the chancers? We are rarely in a position where we are likely to arrive at a site early! If that danger exists we just stop for a coffee en route and relax a bit before moving on.
David
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But the problem is the laissez faire attitude to arrival times across the whole network, not just say Chatsworth.
This has bred a culture that arrival times are for guidance only and don't apply to "me" becase I need to get the "best" pitch.....
This culture then manifests itself as a problem at the vulnerable sites like Chatsworth.
The club needs to either
1) clamp down like a ton of bricks on early arrivers (at any site) with some draconian rule enforcement such that members know an early arrival will see them sent packing or sanctioned (like non arrivals). After a while the message will get through.
Sure, some will leave, never to return (several have promised, sorry, threatened on here to do so), but the loss of a handful of members who cannot follow the rules is no loss to the club.....
2) Allow anytime arrivals & departures as proposed by BB which he has evidenced work elsewhere.
3) Allocate pitches at some or all sites, at the time of booking so that there is no perceived advantage in arriving early.
Of the three options, I prefer option 2, but I really don't mind which, any of them suits me...
But if you read the link I posted in the Seasonal Pitch thread to the minutes of a local council meeting (different site) it is clear that when the Club pi$$es off the local community it won't be long before that has repercussions.
The club needs to get a spine and take some positive action.
All in my opinion of course...
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I think the problem with a flexible arrivals system, is that it just would not work on certain days, on a lot of sites. I am thinking of those close to major conurbations, that are generally booked up for weekends. This makes Sunday a very busy day for arrivals, as the older retired folk, like us, arrive for a midweek break. Often they are not traveling far at all, and if it were possible would get there much earlier than 12:00 or 1pm. So if arrivals were made flexible, say from 10am, it is very likely on these types of site, you would end up with far more arrivals than the site could accommodate.
It is far too easy to start quoting it works over there. The nature of arrivals and departures is totally different from what I have described above. It may well work on some sites over here, but not on a considerable number. If it was such a good idea, would not most of the commercials have adopted it. Certainly the ones we have used, have often had a 1pm earliest arrival.
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I think people who haven't been to Chatsworth are missing the main issue , the lane is approx. 1/4 mile long narrow with a small number of passing places there are no areas for units to park up without pretty much blocking the lane .
Its on Chatsworth estate , they are responsible for it not the club the chain is at the entrance off the main road , to stop all the idiots filling the lane well before the 1 pm arrival time , from12.30am.
This in turn denies access to other users of the estate road ie farm/stables near theCMC site Baslow sports club & field near the entrance & anyone on the site who wants to go out or return before 1pm is near impossible .
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But if the 4 outfits had been let on site, the late leaver (10 mins .... how naughty 🙄) would have been able to leave. When we were at Chirk earlier this year, there were 2 outfits waiting to be let on ..... they were about 5 mins early ..... there was hardly any one on the site. Some people like the position of power.
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Good post, TT.....carrying on in the same way will mean more of the same issues.....and threads on CT.
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I don't know that anyone arrived early, we were second in the queue and arrived at12.05.
The late leaver just had to wait till the first three vans had been dealt with, there is enough width in the road before the entrance for two outfits to pass.
The fact that the first in the queue had both gone off to inspect the site and then took ages to check as they had to discuss with the warden which pitch would suit them best did not help. They were not even in the office when we arrived.
Quite possibly there had been at least one outfit ahead of them as they had not pulled forward to the "line".
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I have never been to Chatsworth, but from the description it is very similar to Bunree which has a set of traffic lights to cover the approach road. (For those who have not been it is cliff face on one side and drop into gorge on the other). These run all the time, not just for arrival, and perhaps some of the great accumulated wealth of The Caravan Club and the Chatsworth Estate could be applied here to instally something similar.
Before the revamp that lost threads, I suggested that a possible approach to the overall problem would be staggered arrival and leaving times. When booking, a departure time as well as day would be required - perhaps divided up into seperate clock hours. Then when a booking was made to arrive on a particular day, it could be worked out at what time it could be accomodated and an arrival slot booked.
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Exactly,what is it that some members do not understand ,do not arrive early, and the chain would never have been used.
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nail on head
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Are you suggesting that early arrivals be turned away in all circumstance irrespective of the the access or the amount of vacant pitches?
I'm going to take a guess that the answer is "Yes"...?...
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I agree with you all on points. Club sites and perhaps non club sites all have a set time, and club sites are certainly popular.
I suppose the could easily find out when people arrive (taken from receipts or even a simple list) but as 'checking out' on club sites merely consists of putting your key fob on the reception desk with a cheery goodbye and thanks to the wardens, or even on some sites posting them through the letter box, (actually I sometimes hand my keys in some time before leaving so I don't forget) the club will have no idea really of who leaves when. How many leavers before 9, how many between 10 and... so how can it know if such arrive/leave when you want would actually work or if such a system would have arrivals but no pitches?
I suspect (just based on my experience on club sites) that the pattern of leaving varies enormously across sites, days, and even seasons. there are always a few who leave about 9 but not many Most leave evenly between mid morning and 12. On a Sunday those staying weekends all try and have as much time as possible on site and leave at 12, and as Steve says the retired folk begin to arrive to replace them (I love Sunday night on site as it's still a lovely feeling). Like I said this is my view but I do use club sites a lot.
Maybe, just maybe, the club has got it right? Maybe that's exactly what it's customers want? Full choice of pitches after 12?
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err Yes for me too, sorry but on this site particularly due to the access road and others sites what part of do not arrive before 1pm (or 12 on others) is hard to understand for people? Not aimed at you btw.
Also those are the club rules, if anyone finds them too onerous to follow then club sites aren't really for them.
I would fully expect to be turned away
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But it might not be the number on site which is the main factor when making that call, maybe it's staffing available! At this time of year, it might be that no one is available to accept those early arrivals, all out doing maintainance of site, pitch repairs and facility repairs whilst very quite. I guess warden's discretion may be influenced by factors other than numbers departing and arriving. Just a thought!
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Just had a thought:-
Why do we have to book in at all?
Money by card (deposit or full payment) could be taken when booking, or at the 72 hours before watershed, and name, address, collar size, etc supplied. We find our own pitches anyway. We don't need a warden to do anything apart from open the barrier, which could be done by showing the barcode in the email sent when payment was taken. Cost of scanner on the barrier entry point would be recouped many times over in saving in warden time.
And, of course, the software will not allow the barrier to open for new arrivals until the hallowed hour!
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Just as some hotel chains do. Last week when I checked in to the central Manchester Premier Inn (working at that <cough cough> Conference
) received an email the day before, offering the opportunity to check in via the internet using a card payment. On arrival at the hotel (AFTER 2pm, the earliest time which I can check in) punch in the number detailed on the invoice which was emailed after payment made, into a machine and out pops my room keycard. No need to queue to speak to a receptionist, easy peasy.0 -
was that by any chance 'over there'? And not a club site? If so that site and it's owners can do what it likes.
I thought you were talking about arrivals on a club site (and also in the UK) where sites even before the winter closure are usually quite popular, I've been on one or two at that time as it's usually the Monday straight after half term so busy with the 'half-termers' and usually staying till the very last possible moment.
And my answer on a club site would still be yes. Why not? Didn't I sign to agree by the rules when I joined?
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Indeed. IMO the best idea is for the driver to remain with the outfit all the time unless they are alone. That way outfits can move forward and clear the entrance as quickly as possible.
Last time we visited Chatsworth there were two wardens in the lane directing the traffic, one outside the office asking the driver to remain with the outfit and ensuring arrivals checked in in the correct order, and one inside doing the actual check in......worked well
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To be honest, I've experienced non-flexibility on sites abroad and on commercials over here, some of which some folk would consider far more strict than that we are discussing in this thread.
It appears to me that whatever practices fit ones particular wishes these are those a few will advocate, rather vehemently on occasions.
Truth is the C&MC is not one site, it is a network of many, some similar some very different and what we may need to understand is that there could be individual site specific reasons which will dictate slightly amended rules where required.
As in my working experience the customer was always right in their individual view but often not understanding of the dictating issues, facts and constraints which apply to the many. This was particularly true when those constraints did not fit their opinion.
Its good to talk mind
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No sorry you have not understood me correctly at all. I said that any non club sites can do what it likes as it is owned by someone else who can do what ever they like with their site. I have not joined their site or their club, I haven't signed to agree by their set of rules. Also you didn't really mention anything about flexibility.
If the club decided to change it's arrival times then I can either take the mature adult way of either accepting that decision and abiding by it or find somewhere else. I certainly wouldn't think it doesn't apply to me.
As stated a lot, you can't compare touring patterns over there with over here.
Sadly (to me anyway) why is it that any discussion on what happens in a club site, or a UK sites, that magical over there land always gets drawn in?
Yes I'm sure it's all wonderful over there (really) but we are discussing what happens over here.
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You are correct Sir👍
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