Chatsworth Chains
Comments
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So, which side of the fence are you on with this one, Hooker? You've been a little ambiguous there.
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On reflection some people arrive early for no fault of there making ect, but there are some who deliberately arrive before the allotted time for whatever reason, how you work out which is which is impossible so I do feel that the club should do something about the the regular perpetrators and boot them out, feed back from wardens would help and when renewal of membership was due it was denied for not conforming to club rules,but until they can sort out the regulars horse whipping seems the best option😜
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Really hooker 128.
Who out there hasn't done 31mph through a 30mph zone, you included. Are you and they thick and inconsiderate. Thick because they do not read and understand the rule and inconsiderate to other motorists who go by the rule.
If I turn up at a hotel 30 mins early in the hope of a cheeky early check in does it really matter. If they let me in great, if my room isn't ready I understand and happily wait. If they tell me to leave and wait on the nearest public road I for one am cancelling my booking and going else where, and never coming back again. But then again they wouldn't treat me like that, because I'm a CUSTOMER !!
I mean really it's half hour early, does it really matter.
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Do not defend the indefensible, you sign up to the club, if cannot hack the rules clear off ,all you end up doing is anoying other rule abiding members.
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I agree with BB. Queues outside CC sites are generally the making of the club itself by enforcing the 12 o'clock arriving/departing time ..... never been to Chatsworth, but have seen outfits waiting at 5 to & 10 to twelve at half empty/full sites.
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And has a customer please abide by the rules, and who mentioned hotels and speeding please stay on topic.
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Didn't answer the question did you !!
I may have voted in an election once, didn't mean I had to agree with everything the party I voted for said, or that I couldn't try to change the bits I personally didn't agree with.
And remember it's a club, as you pointed out, so surely everyone has a right to have their opinion, or are my opinions wrong ?
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If I turn up at a hotel 30 mins early in the hope of a cheeky early check in does it really matter. If they let me in great, if my room isn't ready I understand and happily wait. If they tell me to leave and wait on the nearest public road I for one am cancelling my booking and going else where, and never coming back again. But then again they wouldn't treat me like that, because I'm a CUSTOMER !!
Slight difference, at a hotel you may or may not have a car to park somewhere and perhaps a suitcase in tow. So are not really going to impact on those leaving. At a site like Chatsworth 12 metres of car and caravan x several early arrivals, can totally block the access for those wishing to depart.
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Absolutely Steve, and I respect your opinion.
The point is you are not calling people who disagree with you tossers, and some people are.
I have been to Chatsworth.
The system they have doesn't work currently, and the chain will simply move the queue elsewhere, so it's not a solution.
It would seem some customers would like a varied check in time, and I suspect it could be re-arranged, but until enough people complain nothing will change.
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We have been to Chatsworth and we tour a fair bit abroad where in general they are more relaxed about arrival times. I'm not sure if a varied arrival time would work, I think folk would just arrive as soon as they possibly could, which would cause chaos as folk wont leave until the 12 noon dead line.
We have been on sites abroad that don't allow arrivals before 13.00 ( St Clair @ Neufchatel ) is one. Other sites close for lunch which can be anything from 12 -16.00, these will always have queues waiting to get in, the difference is that these folk haven't booked, so if they don't want to wait they just go to another site, that's what we do. Here with the C&MC we have booked.
I'm not sure that folk would like to be let in as folk leave as they like to have lots of choices, so if they arrive early and wait they hope there was lots of departures. Rather than the one out one in approach, I could see some folk constantly moving around the sites after 'best' pitch.
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Personally we arrive as early as we can, because we want to get sorted and start enjoying our break. The early could be any time of the day, from late morning right upto just before reception closes. The actual time we arrive will depend on how far we are travelling, traffic, did we set off on time, how often we stop etc etc.
When we arrive there is, hopefully, at least one empty pitch, and generally half a dozen or so. We just choose one that suits us, and get on with it. I personally couldn't be bothered to keep moving, and again personally I think one persons perfect pitch, is another persons average pitch.
Ultimately you choose from what's available at the time you arrive, whenever you arrive.
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I guess one answer would be to increase staffing levels, then overhaul rotas and procedures accordingly. Then, as a result, increase costs to membership & member nights to cover this.
Now for the sake of upsetting the very few who will insist on flaunting the now arrangements, which in my opinion actually work for the vast majority of folk and sites, is that realy the answer?
Keep costs down and address the problem I say. For those few folk who have no intention of complying with 'our agreed' current rules and arrangements they need some assistance.
Clearly, due to site specific circumstances, the rules themselves and how the assistance of the above few may have to differ from one site to another but not letting them on 'till the agreed time should be applied wherever and whenever possible.
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I can't be doing with all this. CL's for me.
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Although I think BB's idea would work for most sites, I have never been to Chatsworth and after reading this debacle, I am never likely to either.......
What is apparent is that the Club is suffering a self inflicted problem, lack of enforcement of the arrival time rule across the network has resulted in this problem.
The Club needs to grow some ba*** and treat an early arrival like a non arrival. Three strikes and you're out.
But it does make me smile people saying let outfits queue on the road cos that's the police's problem. Yeah, right.........given the way partnership working happens within the Safer Neighbourhoods Teams nowadays after about the first two call outs to a roadblock they are going to hand the problem straight back to the Club and failing that the landlord or the Licensing/Planning Authority. Get real folks, the police are not there to deal with naughty caravanners and a club that is too paralysed with fear to reprimand naughty members.........
The Club needs to man up or it will have long term repercussions...
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Agree in many ways with Tintent.
Having stayed at Chatsworth, probably 10 years ago, the current system makes sense. The early arrivals don't!
On majority of sites if a member wishes to arrive early then ask! I have done so on probably a handful of occasions over the last 10 years and probably about 200 site visits. Some commercial sites and some club sites. It has usually been because we are unusually close to the next site.
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Running the same system as Rowntree, York, might improve things, a fast input with number plate information and instructions given by the side of the van as you enter. I thought this was done at Chatsworth already or did it just happen on our visit, a warden with a clip board and the booking details to hand? Return to the office to pay when sorted. Works well, the entrance road at Chatsworth is the ongoing problem and as others have said not enforcing the 1pm arrival as the C&CC does hasn't helped. Wardens at the C&CC just aren't around until the appropriate time, the offices are closed till 1pm, people have got the message although queues still form no-one can enter.
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If congestion occurs on the A619 as a result of the chain barrier being in place at Chatsworth and the Police become involved on the back of complaints or as a matter of safety, they can’t ‘hand it back’ to the Club to deal with. It is not an issue for the Club to resolve.
The Police can liaise with the Club, but ultimately the Club can stand their ground as they are perfectly within their legal rights to have the chain barrier in place. It is not for the Police to decide if the Club can continue to apply this practice or not.
What the Police will be obliged to do is maintain safe traffic flow along the road, if this means attending and moving traffic on then this is what they will have to do. Until such time as a stretch of ‘No Waiting’ enforcement is put in place along this stretch of road then the Police will have to attend on the grounds of safety, particularly as there is a narrow chevroned centre line approaching a pelican crossing between the site entrance road and the island
Together with the landowner (Chatsworth Estates), the Club are perfectly within their legal rights to erect that chain barrier and there is nothing the Police can do about it because it’s a private road. Traffic congestion or not, the Police can not force the Club to remove the chain.
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Blocking a public highway is an offence. Of course the police should book offenders.
The easy answer for those who can't read or understand the rules to which they have signed, is for them, if they were to arrive early , to find a layby or carpark and wait until the appropriate time before presenting themselves at the site. It's easy, just needs a bit of intelligence.
The wardens are perfectly correct. If the earliest arrival time for their site is XX hours. Nobody get admission till that time.
K
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A similar "problem"can now happen at Ferry Meadows during the low season and less staff are employed, because of the add security barrier hat has been installed after the increased problems being caused by a"travellers"in the area, which now means early arrivals can obstruct Ham Lane
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Nigel,
I am not saying that the police can "force" the club to remove the chain.
What I expect will happen is that the first few times the police are called, if there is an officer available (and out in the "shires" you may be surprised how few bobbies there are, and dealing with domestic violence issues, vulnerable people and the plethora of other high risk jobs they have to deal with will always come first), the officer will probably simply "move on" offending drivers.
If calls persist over a matter of time it will get flagged to the safer neighbourhood teams as a persistent problem. It will be likely an officer will speak to the warden in the first instance to see what cooperation and assistance can be achieved voluntarily from the site/club. I (as stated already) have no personal knowledge of Chatsworth and there are obviously some unique circumstances there, but in general the warden may well simply let people on site early (as it appears was happening at M in M you told us about recently). As there appears to be no sanction within the club for arriving early, members see this as guidance or a rule that does not apply to them and can be ignored in the quest for the "best" pitch.
If the site/club cannot assist the police then I would expect the problem to be raised in a couple of partnership meetings.
There is a Statutory responsibility upon local authorities to work with the police through the Crime & Disorder Act which has resulted in the Community Safety Partnerships to solve local problems. The police will almost certainly raise it there if they keep getting called to a road safety issue, as you state. How the local authority then solve the problem is up to them, whether that be double yellow lines or planning/licensing constraints I dont know. ( I am not familiar with the road outside Chatsworth). Also the police meet with local councillors fairly regularly ( they do where I live).
The police will not retain ownership of a traffic problem outside a Club site for very long, they have a very very long list of far more pressing things to deal with.
You may have a different opinion but I believe I've given a fair appraisal of reality......
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Nigel, thank you for the warning about the chain. I have jotted down Bolt Cutters on my caravan kit list.
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As this discussion is about Chatsworth perhaps we should stick to discussing the unique issues that apply to this site? It has a very long single track access road where it would be almost impossible for two units to pass, it could even be difficult for a car and caravan/motorhome unit to pass in all but a few places. It is therefore sensible for the Club to have a strategy in place to tackle the unique issues faced by this site. You would hope that members would be grown up enough to understand why the no arrivals before 1.00pm rule is in place for this site. I imagine the reason the chain has been put in place is because some members ignore the sign at the start of the site access lane and proceed to the campsite. Easier to send them away from there than the actual site. I also wonder if the Club are restricted in what they can do by the Chatsworth Estate? A traffic light system with associated CCTV would probably be a better solution but it would be costly with no obvious payback.
David
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I am astonished the adults here would propose others (never themselves of course) to be sent packing like naughty children
Were I to arrive at this site in advance of the arrival time I would be perfectly content with being turned away David.
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Could be
Without inside knowledge it’s impossible to know. However, there has to be some kind of agreement in place between the Estate, the tenants along the road and the Club that accept there will be an influx of units after 1pm on most days, but especially on Fridays. It may well be that the tenants have complained they are meeting incoming units before 1pm breaking any agreement that is in place, which in turn puts pressure on the site to address. So the chain may well have been added not only by the Club, but as a consequence of all those affected
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