Extending Season on more Scottish Sites
Simply put, why do so many Scottish sites close in September and not open till April.
Its not the weather or road access??
Commercial sites stay open with much wider windows so why not CMC sites.
Speaking to wardens I've been told of numerous people looking to stay whilst the have been preparing sites for opening only to be told they cant allow them onsite
With little research I must admit, I think there are only three all year sites - Melrose runs at something like an average 85% occupancy across the year so the demand is there!
I can only surmise that those who make the decisions do not understand or bother to find out about the demand and conditions
Just read at least 4/5 sites shutting at end of Sept - ridiculous
Moderator Comment - I have edited title to more fully reflect what the subject of this thread is about.
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Do you know for sure that it's the club's decision to close the sites, Solo?
Very often it's the terms of their operating licence that dictate closure.
Gibson Park was originally a council owned and run site and may well be operating under the old terms the council granted to itself.
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Quite happy to accept that if that's the case but presumably this is something that can be adjusted or negotiated each year in line with demand. Can't see councils reasonably turning down anything that would bring extra business to an area
As such its just an observation as I'm looking at getting away again Sept/Oct and options are starting to get limited
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I understand, Solo.
We hear the same cries about Cornwall and I think I'm right in saying that the only site open all year is an AS. I assume the club either aren't allowed to keep their own sites open or they've established it wouldn't be economically viable.
We can't know unless HQ explain their logic.
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Although we do a limited amount of caravanning in the months mentioned. I would not consider towing the distances involved in getting to either Cornwall or Scotland at those times of the year, and for the limited time we are away. I am sure this must apply to a lot of folk in the large population centres of central England. Perhaps there is just not enough demand to keep more sites open.
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As I say commercial sites are open and will no doubt run on tighter profit goals than the CMC.
I'd also suggest that the Scottish members who do not relish a long tow down south might consider staying north of the border if they were open.
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We're not all in the Midlands, Steve.
Scotland is within reasonable reach of the large population centres in northern England and Cornwall is only 200-ish miles from Brum and similar from London.
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One commercial (Affiliated) that is open all year is Grantown on Spey. This also has a lot of lodges on site, so I would speculate they have to stay open anyway, so costs are shared. This scenario could well apply to other commercials.
It would only be worth the CC opening if they could at least break even. Perhaps they feel this is unlikey, as they have no other income stream, from lodges, or other enterprises on site. Unless we get some sort of response from the CC, it is of couse all speculation.
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Even Newcastle is 200 miles from Pitlochry in the Grampian mountains. The really large population centres of Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, Leeds, Wolverhampton, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc. are 280 to 340 miles.
As far as Cornwall is concerned, yes Birmingham and London are circa 200 ish from the border. However, for us it is 300. The point I was trying to make is a lot of folk don't want to tow far in the winter months. Our limit would be Cirencester or Bristol to the south and a similar distance in other directions. So if I am right and folk are not prepared to travel the distance, that's an awful lot of potential customers. Hence perhaps why sites close when they do.
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Unlikely the tea drinkers at HO would put their thoughts to such a mundane thing as looking at opening/closing dates. We do as we have always done and look at all the non essential things for the club. They cant even consider say MWD at Lady Margaret on a trial basis to increase usage on an all year site despite being close to large conurbations.
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Excellently put - only three sites in Scotland open Nov- March/April! thats five months where the only real option is to head down south.
Two of these do not suit us and both are only 20 miles from my front door.
This leaves Melrose - excellent site and unfortunately everyone knows that so its normally full - as I said earlier it runs at 84% full all year.
ps despite the change in the title this is not intended as a north south argument and it would appear this occurs elsewhere in th country
The question is how in touch with the memberships requirements are HO.
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Ps Moderator - not wanting to be argumentative but the title did actually reflect the topic as I am questioning how in touch the HO is with the members needs and wants.
Moderator Comment - The way I looked at it was the title seemed at odds with what you had written in the actual post. You ask a perfectly reasonable question but I don't know how that is served by having dig at HQ and making the assumption they don't care much about what happens north of the border. There may be perfectly sensible reasons why the majority of sites in Scotland are don't stay open longer.
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Solo, it's Mid Week Discount.
You're right that it's other areas as well as Scotland and I was trying to make the point that the various areas are all not that far from some major centres of population so could be used by many. I guess it depends how far people consider it's worth travelling in winter. For some 200 miles is reasonable but for others it's not.
As for HQ being in touch with what members want, I think we know the answer.
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Solo, do the commercials that are open fulfill your requirements better than CC?
two questions....perhaps make more use of these, perhaps consider why you pay the club a membership fee when, in your area, they dont provide the service you would like.
ps....i cant type 'go elsewhere' as others sometimes do
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It's nothing about a north south argument, purely in my opinion distance, at a time of the year when days are much shorter and weather unpredictable. We are lucky with where we live, as it gives us relatively easy acces to the whole country, but the closest of those four sites that close at the end of September is Kinlochewe at 467 miles. However, unless we get a response from head office the reason remains a mystery.
Also of course, the prospect of overwintering at Altnahara may not make wardens easy to source.
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Just looking and two of my favourite sites, Bunree & Morvich seem to close 6 Nov through to Mid March.....and they are hard standings.....
I too am surprised, I would have thought the west coast of Scotland out of season was perfect, although it speaks volumes that I haven't actually been.....
Perhaps the water pipes all freeze up....?? (not by the sea surely)?
We will be back to BB's suggestion of just opening the 10 pitches nearest the gate soon.....
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An interesting topic and one which is unlikely to be satisfactorily answered other than by HO.
I suspect it's the sustainability argument that leads to winter closure except for those sites that are popular all year round. BUT, how does CMC know which ones would be more popular? I don't know. They've either done some kind of research or stuck a finger in the air.
I've also noticed, in other activities that I take part in, that those from the less populated areas (I hesitate to say 'remote' because remoteness is a frame of mind) are prepared to travel further. To them, 200 miles is simply a starting point and something that is normal. Those from the more populated areas, however, tend to view long journeys differently as they have more choice within a smaller radius and become used to not having to travel so far. That doesn't apply to everyone, of course (just before I get dumped on
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I think that is part of the issue for those who live away from centre of country, and who can and do continue touring through the Winter months. It's easy around us Steve, lots of sites, including Club Sites stay open, and get well used. Places like Castleton, Ferry Meadows, Chatsworth, York, Bolton Abbey. Usually busy. We tour all year, have done for decades in both caravan and motorhome, but it's more difficult finding Club Sites open in Winter. We tour in the snow as well, unless it is really deep, but a lot simply don't have the tow car suitable, or consider it too difficult. We used to go down to Cornwall or up to Scotland every Autumn, sometimes being the last off sites such as Marazion or Garlieston, but then having to use alternatives because they closed. Folks like us up North and in SW would love to do what we do and have a few more Club Site opportunities if possible.
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Factor in a bad winter, north or south and the sites just wont be viable. There are some other non CMC club sites open in Scotland, like Loch Morlich in the Cairngorms which is open all year and others. So there are a few choices plus CLs.
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arent all the wardens enjoying the sun 'elsewhere'
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North Ledaig (an AS) is a cracking site and appears to be open till into the New Year......
As has been said already, some winter touring may have to be outside of the Club.....
Which could be a bit of a blessing, there are some great sites in Scotland not part of the club network....
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With little research I must admit, I think there are only three all year sites - Melrose runs at something like an average 85% occupancy across the year so the demand is there!
Yes Melrose (in the Borders our fav site btw) is very popular but maybe the demand is there because it's easy to get to from the North East of England and from the area of Scotland north of it. We take two hours from south of Newcastle on good roads, where would two hours get you further north into Scotland? I don't know but certainly Edinburgh and beyond with places with a high population density. The weather is usually acceptable for towing anytime in winter, where as places further north might be difficult.
I can only surmise that those who make the decisions do not understand or bother to find out about the demand and conditions
You might be doing the club a disservice, I am sure they look at data from bookings, for example are these sites further north used a lot in just before they close or open in September and March? I am sure the club has done it’s homework.
There could also be restriction on how long sites can be open for by local authorities?
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There is a clearly different mind set between those who live in the populous centre of Britain and those of us who live elsewhere.
Persons from the populous areas travelling in the extremities might say, "I'll take a spare can of fuel as I might run out in such a remote area." Those of us who live there don't bother as we know, "I'd just run out again 30 miles further on."
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I've also noticed, in other activities that I take part in, that those from the less populated areas (I hesitate to say 'remote' because remoteness is a frame of mind) are prepared to travel further. To them, 200 miles is simply a starting point and something that is normal. Those from the more populated areas, however, tend to view long journeys differently as they have more choice within a smaller radius and become used to not having to travel so far. That doesn't apply to everyone, of course (just before I get dumped onsurprised)
I think you make a good point there. We do have a reasonable number of sites to go at in the winter months, many at less than 100 miles. For us, I think if we had to travel 200 miles to source sites, we would not be doing any winter caravanning.
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In short no they don't - commercial sites are usually more cramped and have poorer facilities
I love the majority of the club sites and the wardens, just want to see a longer season that reflects the needs of the members across all the areas.
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Those four shut end Sept rest usual during October
Balbirnie is only 30/40 miles from Edinburgh (and my local go to site) yet shut end September and this year only opened in April - easy access from main routes and would only require grass pitches to be closed(less than 40%)
Forfar just north of Dundee - shuts end October yet just 3 miles off main route - majority hard standing
Plenty sites in central Scotland to choose from
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I had not checked before last night on all the closing dates, so was really surprised that there were sites that closed as early as 25th September. I had thought that everything would be open until late October.
Seems odd to close so early, even up north, as there are still school holidays in October, and the weather is not that bad at that time of year.
We do not usually use the van beyond mid November, but even so, the popular closing date of around 6th November is seriously limiting if you want to take a week or two away. End of November would be much better. It is not just sites in Scotland either.
A couple of years back we went to Knaresborough site to attend a show in Harrogate, and wanted to stop off both on the way there and the way back to extend our trip, but there were no club sites open on our route, so we ended up just staying a little longer at Knaresborough and making the journey there/back in one go.
Could have stopped at Melrose, or Edinburgh, though a bit of a detour, but we have been there many times already, and we wanted something different for a change.
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