How to thrive on a non EHU site .
There are many of us now that have, through genuine interest, discovered that with the new technologies and the refillable gas cylinders that are now available, we no longer have to conform to the status quo. No longer are we held to ransom by the large LPG companies, no longer do we have to pay for the sacred bollard and carry an orange umbilical cord around with us. The new technologies like the mighty Solar Panel, better batteries, LED lighting and the refillable cylinders like gaslow and the game changer cylinder for Caravans- the Safefill cylinder provide all the power we need at a fraction of the cost. £5 a night sites are now a reality and not only that, they are a comfortable reality! With low ampage heat pumps, low ampage televisions, USB chargeable toothbrushes, phones and tablets Bluetooth music consuming milliamps and other new innovations coming on stream from time to time, there has never been a better time to go non EHU. This thread is dedicated to those of us who have rejected the ever increasing cost of modern day caravanning and have sought a more simple, traditional but equally comfortable life whilst out in the great outdoors! Please, I ask everybody who has experience in this field to contribute to this thread so that others may see that it's not just a fad- it really is here and it's time to change.please add your experiences and expertise to this thread. It's no longer about 'Surviving' non EHU - it's about 'Thriving ' on non EHU!!
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I haven't carried an orange cable now for 4 years! The 135w panel on the roof supplies and has supplied all the power I have needed and with the help of my 2000PSW inverter,, I have even been able to use my microwave, my 240v vacuum, my blender and the thing I really didn't want to do without- my electric toaster. The water is heated by Safefill gas at about 25% of what I was paying for rental cylinders, the fridge is driven by gas and everything else is on Solar power. If I were caravanner in the deep mid winter I would certainly be warm enough but the solar panel might not be up to the task fully so I would never say the bollard is never needed but certainly in the summer, from April to the end of Sept I have never needed it. I have already recouped far more in saved fees that I spent converting the 'van to non EHU- about twice as much if I were to take a calculated guess- and the savings go on.
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Merve, I'm afraid that it's always the Toaster that amuses me! We have one at home, but only because it was a kind gift.....it is never used! ...the gas grill makes far better toast.
The greatest 12v demand these days for most people is the TV and/or Laptops, especially during the long winter hours. No problem if it's sunny, but a succession of overcast days can leave you struggling.
My own solution is to carry a spare battery in the car. This can be connected in parallel with the 'van battery to store surplus PV power when available; or if necessary recharged in the car when out and about.
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Yep, there's always a solution Vic. My Toyota Surf towcar carries yet two more large Varta batteries so plenty of power if needed. Brings back memories of a lead from the back of the car from the 7 pin plug as it was then!! - I like my toaster! Does very nice toast and it's convenient and if the batteries can handle it why not- saves on the gas😂😂😂😂. Yes, a battery can always be charged by the car. I am thinking of upgrading my alternator to be more efficient.
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Uh Oh it looks like a new thread!
Vic I am with you about the gas grill - what people don't seem to understand is that the gas works much better especially if it has been preheated! That way you don't wait for ages for one side of the toast to toast - you let it get hot and then stay there and turn it!
Merve I barely use a toaster - either! How much toast do you eat? Or perhaps the grandchildren eat a lot?
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Don't talk to me about doing toast under a caravan grill! I did that up until about 4 years ago still. I don't like carrying unnecessary equipment. For a number of reasons electric for me now.
When doing toast under the grill I wanted 4 rounds for the two of us. The only practical way for me was to put two slices on the grill pan and two more on top and shuffle them. Also meant both me and OH having two pieces of thick white.
The electric, for me has advantages. I can pop in two slices of thick white for OH who prefers white toast soft in the center. When hers is done I can pop mine in. I prefer three slices of medium wholemeal as I like my toast crisp right through. I like mine left in the toaster for a while after toasting so that it is really crisp.
It is often said that we are all different
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Rather than getting this thread bogged down on the merits of toast...
If fitting a flexible type solar panel, think carefully if your roof is not the bonded type. The continuous flexing can cause them to fail prematurely.
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As important as toast is......😂😂😂 thanks Cyber. It's a good point you make re flexible SPs. Bonding them to a board made of marine ply and sealed would be my answer to that of you are not sure. The frame type such as mine have no such problems. Mine has travelled thousands of miles and is still working perfectly but of course they are heavier than the flexible. - and produce more amps per sq in.
MODERATORS: CAN YOU MAKE THIS THREAD A STICKY AND UNSTICKY THE 'How to survive a non EHU' PLEASE.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0j5nqbS6C-bmtJa3VPbGNlODRJWENZcmxIcC1vRmRjWVpj/view?usp=drive_web
I have posted this PDF file as a reference point to the new acceptance of Safefill Cylinders. The previous link seems to be live and brings up the newest edition of Petrol Heads. Please print this out and go and see that garage or forecourt that won't fill your Safefill because it's a cylinder!! Please send all successes to Safefill or post it here and I will do it. Thanks
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Don't give up on the electric toaster just yet, our four slice toaster has independent controls for each pair of slots so it is a genuine his and hers toaster - essential for domestic harmony. We could get by without gas for a couple of days but not the electric toaster.
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I certainly couldn't do without 12v power for a couple of days! - no water, no flush, no light ....or gas for that matter as the fridge runs on it and the water and heating is driven by it. I could however, do without 240v as everything that 240v does on board can be done in another way- but with a decent inverter why would I? - it's just the convenience I would miss I guess.
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Merve I have that printed and in the car. Would it be a waste of energy to try the Shell garage in Lincoln I asked when I first got my Safefill? I need to top up at some point fairly soon. Unfortunately my cylinder is the old blue one which might not help. I know Brayford caravans will be happy to take my money!
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Pippah
I think it would be sensible to have a thread on Refillable Gas Systems. The current and previous thread titles are far too general. I am sure people can survive a limited amount of time without 230v electrics as they can with standard exchange cylinders. I would also suggest that the thread needs to accentuate the positives of refillable systems rather than effectively slag of the likes of Calor. The refillable option won't suit all so they, for various reasons, will want to stay with an exchange cylinder and I am not sure we should make people that prefer to do it that way seem as though their judgement is unsound if you see what I mean. Now I don't know whether Merve wants to start a new thread promoting the advantages of a refillable system pointing out the pluses and minuses or whether he wants on of the existing threads renamed?
David
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And whilst there is much useful information here I think Merve would do well to tone down his simmering undercurrent of contempt for people who do not share his view of "camping"......
I might "wildcamp" the odd night in a scenic part of Scotland but most of my vanning will be on a conventional site with "free" EHU meaning I have absolutely no need for a solar panel or refillable gas cylinder which would never pay for itself......
I suspect my style of camping is the same as many people's on here....
Merve's technical input is valuable, especially perhaps to people going "over there" or doing a lot of wildcamping, but he needs to accept his ways wont gain many people anything at all.....
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No effort at the moment would be a waste Pippah. The colour is unimportant so long as it's a Safefill. I am hearing of people being successful with garages where before the weren't. The difference this time is that you have legal backup for your request.It will be very interesting to find out. I have written to Shell and am still waiting for the official reply- they have sent an acknowledgement for my email. I'm not sure whether to interpret the length of time as a good sign or a bad one?? One thing is now certain- they have no legal basis on which to refuse Safefill Cylinders. We all need to push this- I will be out next week before going to the Lakes selling the idea to the LPG points in Leicestershire and Northamptonshire.
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Tintent, that is a misinterpretation of this thread! I do not think people who go on EHU are poorer for it - perhaps financially yes but that's all. I certainly don't have an under current thing going on😂😂😂 This is for the folk who have embraced the new technologies and gone non EHU. That's all! Don't please see things that are not there. I used to camp like that you know! Yes, the vast majority of caravanners camp with EHU and Calor and frankly I'm very glad they do but, there have been people email me to say that they have gone non EHU and are very grateful for all the info that the non EHUers have put on here and have made the decision to do it. I've not had an Email yet that said that it was awful and they had wasted their money so please TT, good luck to you - no hard feelings I hope.
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Good points made David. Did you see my request for making this one a sticky and release the ' How to survive a non EHU site ' from the glue. I feel that this is a much better and positive title. The word survive again brings visions of struggle and strife as you fight to survive- it's like the ' Back to basics ' theme that the club is always pushing! I'm not sure that we can't cover refillables on this thread. Refillables are just one part of thriving on a non EHU site at reasonable cost- funny how some see different interpretations in a thread? And I agree entirely, in fact I have stated many times that many people will not have Safefills or similar because it doesn't suit their style of caravanning or they don't use enough gas. As I said to Tinny, there's no problem with that. If you have an idea mate re the titles or what we can do to improve it, please, feel free to expand your theories. Thanks.
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Isn't it interesting how others perceive things differently? I have never seen Merve's posts as anything but a desire to help others save money IF it suits their needs! Are those people perhaps insecure in their camping? Good grief - some people need to grow up and make their own choices! Simply ignore what you don't like?
I know Merve has helped me save money AND have the convenience of a cylinder I can fill at MY leisure - not when it has run out and supplies of the right brand are miles away! Not to mention making it easier by being able to actually see the level of the gas - although I must admit I got that wrong once and hitched up to EHU in a heatwave when I actually had a lot more gas than I had thought! Bright light confused me but I should have looked at the cylinder at dusk or later with a torch and read it properly!
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As I am going to claim credit for the title, if nothing else, then I am going to put my point of view. Which will probably upset everyone.
Firstly if you put a post on this thread. That basically says we are always on ehu and have not intention to go off ehu. Please don't post, it is boring irrelevant and basically a form of trolling. By all means start your own thread to that effect.
On the other hand if you post I never been off ehu but I am interested in learning more then post away and hopefully you will get good information from experienced people that will help you make a decision.
So Ok you have an opportunity to spend a weekend in a field at an event. I would like to go. Do I need to buy a safefill bottle, solar panel, 3000W inverter and replace every bulb in the van with LEDS?
The answer from me would be emphatic NO! For a weekend away in the summer you need enough gas let's say a couple of kilos and a battery that isn't knackered. That's it.
If you want to go off grid for longer when it is colder and darker then the situation changes a bit. I would look at changing your lights to leds. Most vans built in the last few years are all led anyway. I have in the past used Ultraleds they have a display of the different size, but you will find most 12v halogen bulbs in your van will be G4, the spotlights MR16 or MR11. In truth I bought most of my bulbs off EBay cheap a chips I never had a promblem, my preference was for warm white btw.
Gas, Alde state in their literature that 6kg of gas should last a British weekend in the winter. At Calorlite prices that's £12 per night added to your site fee at safefill prices it works out at about £3.25 ish much cheaper. But what no one tells you is that no one off grid would use a Calorlite anyway They would use either a13 or 19kg bottle because the price is £28 for 13kg so you are probably saving arround £10 per fill significant but not nearly as much of a saving as a basing it on a small bottle usage So getting a safefill depends on how much you use and where you can fill If you want a larger Calor or whatever, a trip to your local car boot will normally come up with an empty bottle for a couple of quid btw. What the manufacturers don't tell you is that your principal systems heating, hot water and fridge all work better on gas anywaySolar panel just get one but remember a freestanding one is much more efficient than a roof mounted one so it doesn't need to be as big. I have 150W roof mounted panel becausthe van is in storage so it is more convenient. These have become a commodity so don't spend a fortune on a Truma system for example I'm pretty sure don't make panels again I have sourced panels off EBay
I know that Merve has a powerful inverter system fitted. I prefer it simpler so I have manually propelled tooth brush and broom, don't use the microwave, or a hairdryer off grid and tbh don't miss them. I do charge iPads phones and kindles from12v and watch Tv if we want to
I do hope the diversion in to toast was a joke, because if anyone really does limit where they stay based on the need for a toaster If fan that very sad
My set up for what it's worth is
Hymer 590GL all led lights
Alde Heating
150W SP, Morningstar controller
Safefill bottle
Autochage over regulator
Samsung 22" TV claims to be 14v runs fine from battery
Ruark R1 radio again claims to be 14v
vairious charging lead for phones, tablets etc
150W inverter for charging camera and laptop.
The above is not a recommendation just what we have
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EJB, run it on gas (obviously), or is this a trick question?
surely, this is a key ingredient of 'losing the orange umbilical' and why a cheap source of gas can help to make this strategy work?
to accentuate the positives in Merves thread, heres a few.....
cost (gas refils at 25% of bottled gas)
cost (non ehu 'proper' sites around a fiver a night cheaper)
cost (non ehu CL type sites around £15 a night cheaper than an EHU 'proper' site)
cost (can refill at any time, no giving back unused gas to supplier)
flexibility (wider choice of sites/aires available compared to those who need EHU)
flexibility (gas supply maintained across europe with adaptors)
to balance the above, some downsides...
cost (initial outlay of cylinder)
flexibility (reliance on LPG locations....may vary in each area)
similar pros/cons apply to the necessary 12v side of the 'off gridding' equation.
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Thanks to you Pippah. All I am trying to do is pass on good news or useful hints together with others. Merve and flock is a bit of a dig isn't it? I have got a bit of a reputation for being like a dog with a bone but it's meant well. When I did the CT clothing 3 or 4 years ago folk were having a go then- this is no different. I certainly do not want to be seen as someone who is trying to convert everyone to non EHU by evangelical fervour!! Nothing could be further from the truth! Folk can either read the thread and add to it if they are interested or, if not, move on. Why would I join in critical conversation when I wasn't even interested in the subject being discussed? I wouldn't. Many people have found that the information on the various non EHU threads very useful - some changing over to non EHU with the new techs and finding it fantastic. Others couldn't care less and that's great too. But this thread gives them a choice. Kevlon (and others) saw and read the non EHU threads and converted his van and from what I read through email, is very happy he did- he had a choice. Had he not been interested, he wouldn't have contacted me! That's all we are trying to do. Now, here's the rub, I sometimes think that folk who come on here and have a poke at me or non EHU in general suspect that we might have something good and worthwhile but have to justify their position by having a go or finding some reason as to why they won't or can't do non EHU I may be wrong - but some posts are critical while others are genuinely helpful, informative and enlightening.
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Thanks Boff. I agree with every word. I wouldn't have a cylinder of 13 or 19 kg standing outside my locker- just personal choice. First I have to carry the damn thing and second, I don't want to look like a traveller. I have done it in the past and before the inception of Safefill. Now I don't have to- yet more choice Safefill have given me. You will see my reply to Pippah mirrors your views on irrelevant and boring posts. Again, we see that even within the non EHU community, folk have different ideas of how to do things and thats heathy- we can and do learn from one another. As you know, I have a roof mounted SP. Simple decision- may van is in storage so I needed one that was fixed and safe and that would keep the batteries charged- it has worked perfectly! I would absolutely support your request for anyone wanting to know more about non EHU to post and ask questions. That is what this forum is all about. We are not all the same thank goodness- some of us are more wealthy than others, some need to look for ways to save money to increase our enjoyment of our vans, some may even find this thread and realise that they can actually afford to go caravanning! That they had been looking at club site prices or EHU CLs and decided they couldn't afford it. Now, perhaps they can. Wouldn't that be good!
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Sometimes I come over as being anti safefill. I am not I use a safefill bottle and it's a great bit of kit. It is also a relatively expensive initial outlay. I am just pointing out that there are several ways of, skinning the particular cat of gas use.
I think people are frightened of going off ehu. I have been on sites which have had power cuts the voices of panic amazed me. I want to make it as easy for people to dip their toes into the water as inexpensively as possible.
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