Non EHU & enforced EHU
The Sandringham National was EHU take it or leave it, I have spoken with several of my centre ralliers, and about 50% said they would have liked a choice, as most ralliers are geared up for off grid, many vans now come with solar panels, I for one would have preferred non EHU, certainly didn't use £ 5 worth of electric a day with only a 6 amp supply.
There were certainly not enough pitches this year, I heard several people complaining before and after the rally that they could not get a place, and walking around the site there appeared to be many unsused area, so I can only assume that the rally was setup around the available electric points and generators etc.
Could someone from the club confirm if all future nationals are going to be EHU only, and why this will be so, I personally consider this a bacwards step.
Comments
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Oh for goodness sake Garry - enforced EHU ! ? Why oh why is there always someone who will moan about absolutely anything.
Firstly, there were the maximum number of pitches available for that site as determined by the Estate management NOT the Club, so some didn't get in - well they will have to book earlier in future won't they, this is how it used to be, book when booking opens or run that risk, there is no site in this country that would provide enough pitches for the entire membership. Yes there were empty spaces around us - on land we were not allowed to use, the EHUs were nothing to do with it.
Secondly, those EHUs... ralliers totally used to using their own power are in the minority these days, more people actually appreciate EHU than not, some of them are even ralliers too. We now have the technology (and a heck of a team of volunteers) and can give EHU to everyone so why not do it, it is easier than leaving out a few for those than don't want it and as the team would have to work round those anyway no great amount of money is saved.
In no way is this a backwards step, it is the future, so get with the programme or don't hook up if you are that determined to stay off grid, no one will force you, promise !
Alison
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Allison, firstly I do not like your tone, we are all entitled to have our say on what we prefer, that is what the forum is for, secondly as your profile shows you are a non centre rallier, how can you know what centre ralliers really want, I am only stating on here what I have talked about at our rallies.
Do I assume you are 'someone' from the club or do you just happen to have an opinion and assume non EHu's are in the minority.
So are all future nationals to be EHU ?
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Garry, how can you possibly judge my 'tone' ? you presume it perhaps, possibly just because I disagree with you, am I not also allowed to voice my opinion here?
I am at present a non-centre rallier, but a rallier nevertheless of 30 yr standing and have rallied with many centres over those years and yes, talked to many centre members. We let our centre membership lapse when circumstances stopped us being able to get out on rallies for a while.
I am not 'someone' from the Club but I am a volunteer who works at the National and goes in early (though nowhere near as early as many) to help set up and I still disagree that EHUs are a 'backward' step just because a few don't want to avail themselves of it, as I said - no-one will force you to use it. The National is a 'set price' event and is cheap for what you get, so if you are saying a few are not going to come in future if it is all EHUs, well then I say they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces as my Dad use to say
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This, year I believe that all pitches at the national had EHU as GaryP has correctly asserted. So there was no choice or diversity. So even if a tiny minority didn't want ehu they had no choice My understanding is that GaryP's post is correct in its assertions
To state that as Firedragon has that the number of pitches was determined by the ESTATE. Well 2 points if that is true, then why did the CC t/a CMC choose an unsuitable venue? Alternatively I would bet money that number of pitches equaled the number ehu pitches the club had the capacity to provide.
Coincidentaly I was told a story at the weekend, which may or may not be true. That for a large rally in the north when they looked into the costing of hiring generators. It turn out that a commercial company could supply them at a third of the cost the club wanted for their's.
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Thanks for your post GarryP. We didn't go to the National this year. Last year we were happily off EHU and I was surprised at this move. I can't believe those unlucky enough to be near the huge generators enjoyed the extra noise and I would prefer to have a choice re -cost.
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In the past we have been on sites where people were using generators but they had to be turned off by 10pm.
At this years National they were running 24 hours a day.
We were quite close to one of them & I had to use earplugs on occasion.
Some of us much prefer the peace & quiet of a Solar Panel to the constant noise & pollution of dirty great diesel generators.
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So generators were run continually at the Club's own prestige event. Interesting point should someone be asked to turn their's off when staying on a Club site.
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Yes, I too have been almost next to a generator on a previous rally, and we were not on electric, in fact the EHU's were in a seperate block and the generator was closer to the non EHU block than the actual ones using the EHU's, that was unfair, and I know of some national ralliers who have not done a national since.
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Use of gas will soon be banned as it is "dangerous" and another power source is available.
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not specifically about the National, but the principle...
the same approach is employed with the Club's 'parking' at the NEC shows.....there is no non-ehu option, even if only staying over one night.
i believe the cost now of such an 'overnight parking space' is £27, when i queried why it was so much, the answer was all geared around the 'vast expense' of providing hook up for everyone, despite it not being 'necessary' for hardly anyone and unlikely to be 'chosen' by a great many, given the option.
if this is the way the National is being set up (provide, and charge for, an expensive, noisy service that many dont want) then the Club will find folk being put off....
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if this is the way the National is being set up (provide, and charge for, an expensive, noisy service that many dont want) then the Club will find folk being put off....
I seem to remember back when CT first started, and we first discussed a National on here, the overwhelming majority who did NOT intend to ever attend a National were those who wouldn't dream of spending even one night in a field (even if it is a stately home back garden) with NO facilities
How times have changed
Well as some are also complaining that said fields are not big enough anyway - not that there is any field big enough to cater for the whole membership should there possibly be a miracle that even a quarter of the membership suddenly decided they wanted to try just one National, it seems only fair that the Club would have to look at methods to discourage some to prevent massive overbooking, so why not take the easy road of providing EHUs for all at a (still) cheaper price than five nights on a Club Site, that would give those who want something to moan about a positive reason rather than a negative one ?
After all, it is not the National 'Rally' anymore so why pander to ralliers in particular ?
Alison
(Head down and duck...I'm off to bed
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Allison, with all the advertising done to get people to attend a national, I don't understand your point about the club discouraging some to prevent overbooking ? or positive/negative reason statement.
Also how can you possibly compare the cost of overpriced club sites with full facilities againt a RALLY with minimal facilities and not expect it to be cheaper.
Don't understand your comment that the national is not RALLY anymore, perhaps you know more what the club is trying out, I note they are silent as usual on the subject.
Garry
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The word Rally was removed from the National a few years ago Garry, apparently it discouraged people from going as they imagined camping in a field with no facilities etc etc...
Anyone who has been to a National but never a rally will probably be very disappointed on going to a 'normal' rally as it is very different (allbeit a lot cheaper).
As for the Club being silent on the matter, I think you are misunderstanding the reason for this forum - it is for US, the members to discuss things, yes it is watched over by staff members (and worthy volunteers from the membership too) but it is NOT for us to ask the Club questions and get immediate responses here, they only watch over us to make sure we don't step out of line. If you want a discussion with HQ I suggest you phone or write to them, this is our forum.
Alison
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Alison I disagree strongly with your statement "it is NOT for us to ask questions." Of course we can ask questions on here or anywhere else and the club is answerable to all of us via it's elected representtives.
We may not get immediate answers but we can certainly ask them. I would like to think of better engagement with the membership via social media.
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Firedragon: I haven't seen anyone on this thread suggest that there should be no Ehu's and the national. What people have complained about correctly in my view is the like it and lump it attitude to having EHU at the national. Doesn't exactly promote choice and diversity does it?
Also you quite rightly say that word rally was removed from the name of the National. However discussions of the "National" appear in the section titled National Rallies. You really can't have your cake and eat it.
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The club seem quite happy to accept advertising in the monthly mag from solar power companies ,and it wouldn't surprise me to find that similar companies were trading their wares at the National.Stange then that the club don't offer members the chance to use such kit .Yet another money spinner from the management.
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I give up, so the club should not accept advertising from solar companies if it is going to offer ehus at the National ?
Electricity has to be put in for the National to be able to put on everything that it does now, so why not put it in for the members too, yes, a few don't want it and are very vocal here (but still no more than a minute number of those attending) and I suspect this is not a protest about power at all - rather it is in the hope of getting a reduction in the cost. The National is a fixed fee event and has actually come DOWN in price of late, yet some people will still complain, makes me wonder why they actually want to come if it is still too expensive!
Alison
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Oh Alison really, we would indeed like to pay less having invested in solar panels, why do we need old technology? Anyway we can surely talk about it on here, I've no idea how many feel the same elsewhere. I see you are looking for a cheaper CL, some of us would like a cheaper national.
The venue sounds good next year and maybe more will be able to go?
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Alison,yes i can see why you are fed up with some of the posts on here,but when GaryP (OP) first opened this thread I was in aggreement with him.Us normal ralliers do not know who sets the number of pitches available,we do not know the ins and outs of who decides what,there was a suspicion that the numbers of available pitches was reduced because of EHU hence why it sold out so quickly.I am still not sure what the total number of units for this National.
One thing springs to mind and seeing how popular this National was, and with EHU being so readily available now, I hope the Club have not set yet another booking frenzy day.
Mick
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How do you know it is only a minute number? Was a secret consultation done?
The National is a fixed fee, that was true but only for this year. Previously as you must know ehu has been charged extra so not a fixed fee?
Anybody with an ounce of sense can see it is much easier and cheaper to put electricity into a small area for the arenas and the VIP dining areas. Rather than the whole site.
Naturally the club has been very coy about the number of units in attendance, I have heard the figure of 1400 quoted, which is very substantially less than previous years Perhaps someone would publish the number for the last 5 nationals so we can compare
Cost, for me it doesn't represent value for money for me, but everyone else can come to their own conclusions but I would say don't knock it until you have tried it
Finally Alison,
Not a single post on this thread has said that there shouldn't be Ehu's at the national So my question to you is what have you got against those who are capable of going 4 days without Ehu and why do you think it is acceptable not offer that as an option?
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Members please .....it's pointless arguing the facts , you should all know what's on offer reference services provided before you BOOK.
Then you choose to go .....or you don't , is it really that complicated 😇
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If we don't pose the questions, then how are we to judge the feedback, I have been attending nationals since 1987 and this is the 1st with no choice of nonEHU or EHU, hence the question 'are all future nationals going to be the same', the answer could well decide if we attend again.
What with my local site closing suddenly this year, (very badly managed, with more wasted money), a vast sum of wasted money on rebranding and putting the price up for the NCCR by £25 for EHU that some off us don't want or need, then perhaps there are some of us who feel the need to ask questions of which way the club is going ?
If we don't speak up, then the decision makers can just carry on thinking they have got it right every time.
As I have seen no results from NCCR surveys, who is listening ?
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Regardless of ANY answer.... it will still be your decision to attend or not .......won't it . 😇
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