How many is too many on a CL?
Comments
-
Moonstone, not sure if you are aware, but Oak Tree Farm seems to have a popular camping and glamping business operating alongside the CL as well? Nice website. If it only offers 6amps, I wonder if it is a really old CL, that just hasn't upgraded as most folks cope? Looks very nice, quite a lot of facilities as well, reviews are good.
1 -
Yes, I agree with TTDA, Oak Tree Farm looks lovely and will tempt me back to the county of my birth.
I thought surely no one will complain about that one - till I read the reviews. A complaint about there being tents - we don't want to be near tents. A complaint about the electricity - we want full power. And a complaint about a sixth Caravan arriving - we just want five. Selfish ?
0 -
I have to disagree Ian. We have used CLs with both a CS or a private area close by, and they have had separate facilities. The private area or CS is more usually the area with toilets and showers, purely because they allow tents who tend to require such facilities more than Caravans or Motorhomes. Not aware anyone has ever complained though if CL users opt to use the facilities.
If a CL owner chooses to mark an area out of use, they are probably resting it, possibly for grass to regrow, or reseeding. We come across this quite frequently being fond of grass pitches.
You can't blame CL owners if they apply for permission to have a few more pitches adjacent. So long as that planning permission is in place then all they need to do is make sure the private pitches get a mention so that Club members are aware.
1 -
Why are we so obsessed with this ancient 5 van rule? With the cost of setting up a Cl as we now need Hard standings and EHU as a minimum the old system doesn't work. Just see how few new Cls there are and how many leave the network. Don't get me wrong wholesale increase is not justified. However those that have the space could increase and thereby remain in the network instead of gong their own way. From my experience its not the planners that are showing the reluctance but the CC in looking ahead.
3 -
Why are we so obsessed with this ancient 5 van rule?
Because it is the law. Do you see this Club shelling out its millions of reserves to lobby parliament to get it changed? I don't.
And the other club does not need to since the same law allows for 10 tents as well as the five caravans. Maybe if this new generation of camper explorers that the club is so proud to know nothing about all turn up with tents we might see a difference.
3 -
What is selfish about arriving on a CL and expecting to get what you have paid for, the CL owner has (quite legitimately ) used the planning exemption certificate to circumnavigate the need for planning permission and is at liberty to apply for permission for a larger site at any time.
1 -
Hate to disagree with you but a fairly level mown pitch with access to water & CDP is all that is required. Nice views help but not essential.
Perhaps it's the cost of installing, maintaining the hard standing & EHU that leads to the closure of so many CL's.
2 -
We are the same, even with a motorhome we are not tied to hard standings and hook ups, even in the wet and cold months. We are off up onto NY Moors end of this month on grass. And we will manage even if it rains. Like we did last year, in the snow!
Good luck to all the CL owners that commit to putting in lots of facilities, but don't write off those that choose to leave things as they are, there is still a dedicated and grateful element of the membership happy to enjoy very basic sites.
4 -
A number of posters above have referred to the 5 van rule being a consequence of planning permissions. It's not. The 5 van rule is to be found in the enabling legislation The Caravan Sites (Control of Development) Act 1960.
The Act is not planning legislation but is Public Health legislation. The two main caravan clubs are given exemption from some of the requirements of the Act subject to certain conditions, one of which is no more than 5 caravans (which of course includes motorhomes). The other main conditions are that people using the CL shall be members of one or other of the two clubs, and there is a maximum numbers of days occupancy.
Rog.
0 -
Not quite accurate, Pap. The two clubs are not the only organisations able to grant exemption to 5 van sites and it is not necessary to be a member of C&CC to use a CS.
0 -
Fair comment TW. The two clubs are the main ones and of course the discussion is about CLs and the CAMC.
The salient point in all this is that 5 van rule is a legal requirement and any disregard of the rule is technically a breach of the law. How seriously one views this is a moot point. We have a law about driving and using the phone but it's regularly flouted in fact I was nearly run off the road by a woman on her phone just yesterday, but that's a whole new can of worms.
I studied this Act many years ago and I'm as sure as I can be that membership of one of the clubs who enjoy exemption was a condition of that exemption. It was many years ago and I'm always happy to be corrected.😇
0 -
Hi TTDA - I am aware of their other businesses as we have used the CL since they opened seeing them change from a lovely quiet CL site to a bigger commercial concern and the price increase to boot. We go elsewhere now (cutting off nose to spite face) as to us it is no longer a CL and in our opinion break a number of rules - we have voted with our feet as have a number of other regulars. In all this time there has rarely been less than 6 vans on.
1 -
Forget to say - the facilities for the camping and glamping site is the same as for the CL. The access for both is through the CL site.
All for diversification but that for us isn't the spirit of a CL.
0 -
I am aware that the 5 van limit is a legal requirement which is why I made the point earlier about the club being liable to lose its right to issue exemption status if the rules are flouted. It matters not if there is ample space for 20 units or whether anyone is bothered by having more than 5 on site but, in terms of the law, 5 is 5.
To the best of my knowledge it is C&MC who tie the hands of CL owners by stating they can only take members whereas other organisations seemingly do not.
1 -
Yes TW as far as I can see it's up to the club with the agreement of the owner to allow or not non-members on it's CLs or CSs. I'm assuming that the CAMC has decided not to allow non-members since the signs on the gate say "Members Only"
I'm not a member of the C&CC so I can't comment on their stance.
Certainly over the years since 1960 there have been a number of amendments to the original Act mostly due to changes in local authorities. The Local Authority (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act seems to figure large.
I agree that breaking the rules is dangerous as it could lead to the club losing its exemption. Sadly there are those who think they can pick and choose which laws they will obey.
2 -
It seems that, in theory, you and Pap are correct, Vulcan.
However, in my experience, membership application forms tend to be handed out and it's then up to the camper whether they join or not. It explains why many people have stated on this forum that you don't need to be a member of C&CC to use a CS. Technically, you should be but there are no checks or enforcement.
1 -
I remember well the days when 'trade' outlets such as motor factors would refuse to serve you as a general member of the public.
As long as you walked in confidently, blurted out the name of some imaginary company, and said 'Trade; Cash' there was never the slightest problem
.0 -
For those who believe in "if there are rules why should we keep them"! Why not start up a club called "The No Rules Club" then see how long it lasts before anarchy breaks out!
3 -
Who has said that?
0 -
If you read some of the comments on this subject and other subjects, there are a lot of members who think the rules are there to be either broken or bent.
3 -
Looking at the 5 van rule again might help Cl owners not to bend rules, which don't appear in any case to be enforced by CC or Local auth. etc. Might eventually save the Cl network. With 15 units on C&CC sites and 5 on Cl no wonder there is confusion or apathy by the authorities.
0 -
Simply put, join the CAMC and you agree that CL's are allowed up to five caravans or motorhomes at any one time , join the C&CC and you agree that CS's are allowed up to 5 caravans or motorhomes and up to 10 tents at any one time.
How can anyone be confused by that?
4
same as £12.00 per night as cc