How many is too many on a CL?
My apologies if this has been said before but I'm posting on my mobile and its not the easiest to search/navigate discussions.
Ok so, we are currently on a CL for the Easter weekend, (we booked a couple of months ago and who is to say we weren't one of the first 5 people to book). w'Ahen we arrived yesterday we were the fourth outfit on site. We've come back from a trip out this afternoon to find 3 more outfits here. That is 7 in total! The field is big enough and there are plenty of electric hook ups available, so space isn't an issue. But the owner is obviously breaking the rules.
My questions are, is 7 too many? And would you complain? Who if you choose to would you complain to?
Moderator Comment - Moved from the UK Sites and Touring section
Comments
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You could always write a review of the CL and mention the number of units on site in that, but just as an aside rather than it being the main point of the review?
David
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"The field is big enough and there are plenty of electric hook ups available".
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This situation is worrying. The exemption is for up to 5 caravans (trailer and motor combined) though there can be an additional exemption for tents but as far as I know this particular club does not have any.
So the landowner's public liability insurance is probably invalid, as is the site being licenced, which may affect the insurance of those pitched there (I'll not risk calling them "members" as they may well not be). The space may well seem big but so is the liability. Please put in a review, and DO make the numbers a major point so the rest of us are forewarned.
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Should only be 5 outfits on, however......
Before you complain, check carefully that it is just a CL, and not a CL with either a small private site adjacent, or a CL, with a CS adjacent. They can and do exist, quite legitimately.
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The big risk is that CLs exceeding their limit could lead to the club losing it's right to grant exemption certificates to any site.
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Increasingly more common I'm afraid. More than 5 is too many for us - we choose CL's because they are only 5 vans. We use one in North Yorkshire whuch regularly has 7+ on but much as I'd like to drive away the chances of getting in elsewhere at short notice as slim.
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I agree with what's been said, 5 is 5 but why are these sites not investigated by the site inspector. There are signs here and on other sites that they are set up permanently for more than the legal number of vans and in the case of the cl in question it has plenty of ehu's available so presumably more than 7. That must be a sign to an inspector that something is not quite right.
I know of a cl whose owner was warned by the club for this infringemen,t he took no notice, is still a cll today and that warning was nearly 10 years ago. So much for being under control of an inspector.
If the site has more than 5 then report it
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We use a site like this, the two are divided by a hedge but the facilities are shared so up to ten units could be on site.
Out of interest the CCC allow 5 units plus 10 tents on their Certified Sites.
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Also don't forget the landowners 28 day rule can be utilised for non- domestic properties.
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Blowing in the wind. Over occupancy is now the norm. Its the stupid rule that makes Cl owners do it. CC has a 5 van rule. C&CC has 5 vans and 10 tents- total 15 units. Planers only look at Units and see no need to actively monitor CC sites. When Cl move up to commercial they use the fact hat there have been say 8/10 units using the site in their application and they are invariably nodded through without reference to a full planning committee. The planning fee is nothing in the full cost of moving to say a 15 van site with the EHU, Hard standngs etc added on. Until someone like CC takes a lead and looks at amending the unit number nothing will change apart from more closures of Cls
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"With regard to the EHU if its a large field maybe they have fitted more than 5 EHU to enable a bigger choice of where a member wishes to pitch"
and that's probably the reason the cl owner will give. I don't accept that. The extra cost of installing more than the required number has got to give a return of investment, it's not for rotation. It's to maximise space and income in my opinion.
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We've frequently used a CL with a lot of extra EHU points, quite an awkward area that gave people the chance of finding a spot that suited them as there were no marked pitches. The same CL had extra vans sometimes, late stayers and early arrivals often crossed over, there were no set times to be on or off the site. Depends how the CL owner wants to run the site but I like the 5 van rule.
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harryb- usually prelude to moving to commercial as the cost of fitting say 10 EHU as opposed to 5 is minimal. Been on ne CL where there were a three way extention on the EHU accommodating 9 units in total. Surprise. surprise its now a small commercial.
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The CL I mentioned used to be a small commercial site many years ago, but after planning was changed a 5 van site was the only acceptable route. Caravan sites aren't popular in AONB. We're probably lucky to have as many small sites as we do at present and if people break the planning rules we'll lose the sites.
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I may be wrong but can't a CL owner apply for an extension to the amount of vans on site under certain circumstances like Bank holidays plus many have rally sites could this not be mixed up with the normal pitched vans?.
Steve
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I believe you are incorrect, Steve. 5 is 5 whatever the circumstances and a rally field should be completely separate.
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I disagree, Harry. I think the difference in cost between installing 5 EHUs and 7 or 8 will be minimal. One reason site owners do it is for rotation to protect their ground and save maintenance which, in turn, saves costs.
I know of one CL with surplus EHUs on which I have never seen more than 5 vans. It was originally intended to be a small commercial site but planning permission was refused. It may well be granted one day.
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I'm with TW, I've used a few 7-8 EHU sites, with the pitches over 5 roped off.
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I stand corrected TW.
Steve
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Just remind me Ian, how many dozens of CLs is it that you have experience of?
Of the dozens we have used, quite a few grass pitch ones have more than five hook ups, as someone has stated, it is so the ground can be rested at busy periods. The Club used to move grass pitches years ago, before the spacing became so tight. Just good common sense on grass CLs, and not that costly to extend a wire run when first installing, especially if a farm site with excavation equipment and know how of how to do it. Just needs inspecting and certification get then.
I do wish when folks moan about more than 5 vans, they would say which CL it is, either via a review, or via the grumble on here!
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Apologies - Oak Tree Farm listed under Pickering. The site gets good reviews due to the friendliness of the owners. The site only has 6amp electric (been promising 10amp for the last 5 years), takes tents and has two safari tents for rent.
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