Mixed Messages from the Vets on Rabies
I have had a call from the vet to get my two dogs updated against rabies - but somewhere in my memory I seem to remember being told the vaccinations last 2 years. I just called the vets and yes the vaccine lasts two years but "some countries insist on yearly". One dog is epileptic so I don't want to give her more jabs than necessary never mind the expense - the receptionist at the vet thought that France was one of the countries that insisted on yearly. My experience is that the French don't give a monkeys about my dogs passports (one customs man - just said "woof" to me when I offered the passport for the dog!) It is the return to this country when the checks happen and of course before you leave.
I think I have done it once with it being over one year - but now I wish I recorded everything properly as I can't be certain! Anyone know the answer? Thank you.
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Pippah, My vet contacted me at the end of last month for my dogs Rabies booster, I checked his passport and confirmed he did not need it till 2018 when I phoned back they apoligised as it was computer generated yearly .My dog received the 3 yearly injection
I believe Belguim requires 2 yearly rabies jabs.
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Thanks Walt - and they didn't programme the computer with the 3 year thing! Seems a bit like a money making exercise to me! I need to be prepared though as one of my brothers is in hospital in France. I know that there is info on the DEFRA site but that is like wading through treacle and I am not sure how much they care about other countries.
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The requirement may be that French dogs require an annual booster, but that is nothing to do with English dogs visiting France. The rabies injections are done in order to bring your dog back into England. Dogs are not checked going into France, nor into any other European country - only coming out again! Therefore the British requirement for frequency of booster jabs is what applies to British dogs.
The only time this may be different is is you are taking your pet into a country outside of Europe where it is checked on arrival rather than on departure.
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The Rabies treatment given by almost all Vets in the UK is for three years.
French Vets usually give a one year treatment for Rabies.
Always check your dogs treatment for Rabies has not run out, or even close to running out, when going abroad.
The 'penalty' for finding the Rabies treatment has lapsed when the Pet Passport is presented at the PP Office is being sent for the treatment to a local Vet who will charge an eye watering amount for a one year treatment.
After having the Rabies treatment you will not be allowed to bring the dog back to the UK for 21 days (3 weeks).
An extended holiday may be acceptable to some but a total inconvenience to most people
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I have queried this with my vet, our dogs 3 year rabies injection ran out in March so was due for another. She explained that some EU countries require yearly and some such as Germany require 2 yearly, but as part of an EU agreement all countries will honour another countries interval between injections, so she gave 'Cassie' another 3 year booster as most importantly it is the re-entering to the UK that will be scrutinised.
Another Brexit thing to sort out maybe
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I have just checked the Passports and having been told the injections last 2 years - I find the expiry date is ONE year from last done - in other words runs out tomorrow. So I will definitely NOT be chancing anything I am not terribly happy with the Vets! Thanks Dave for the clarification.
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Yes thanks - I am now angry with the vets saying the jab lasts 2 years and then stamping the passports with only 12 months! I wouldn't want to risk bringing rabies in of course - but mixed messages are annoying - of course its partly my fault for not checking the passports but I sort of expected the vet to give me the right info!
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Pippah, when our vet filled in our pet passport incorrectly we inisted that it was replaced with all the information entered correctly, rather than anything being altered and open to ambiguity. We had to go back the following day to collect a completely new passport, after everything had been rewritten.
The expiry date for her rabies injection, which was originally given on 10th November 2014,is written in the 'Valid Until' column as 10th November 2017 - ie three years, not two. (As mentioned by Walt in an earlier post). The stamp in the passport in the Authorised Veterinarian is the official number of the Vet, and the passport is signed within that stamp.
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Just insist - they will probably want to keep you as a customer, as much as you need a vet! Our vet was reluctant at first, but when we said we would take our business elsewhere if they didn't give us a new, and correct, passport they were very quick to correct things. Check out with the manufacturers of the vaccine used when the expiry date actually is, and then argue your case with evidence to back it up. If it's three years, then the date of expiry should be three years from the date it was given.
And this is nothing to do with the 'pet passport' requirements, it's simply a fact - a vaccine which has an effective life of three years before a booster is required doesn't expire two years early just because your vet has written the wrong information in the passport, or because some foreign country requires annual boosters!
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This is yet another shining example of how Club Together helps us!! Thanks to ValDa I have just called Merial who produce the Rabisan for protection against Rabies and the date on my passport should be 2019 NOT tomorrow! Then get on to the vets receptionist who tried to argue - so I quoted all you kind CTers - senior vet then comes on the line and agrees with Merial (and with me not wanting to stick too much rubbish into epileptic dog), however he said some customers argue that they want the one year expiry date! And if he had done the booster last year he would have talked about it with me! (it's not that easy to get the main man so I had opted for a minion!) Now he is working on getting me new passports hopefully.
Thank you thank you everyone
it just proves that reading the DeFRA stuff and the Club guidelines for taking pets abroad isn't quite enough - personal experience is priceless. 0 -
I presume you'll be looking for a new recommended Vet in your area when the Pet Passport palaver is over?
We have an epileptic dog and unless we insist on seeing the more experienced staff at our Vets we get conflicting views about treatment - and, funnily enough, it always costs us more each time.
We are away for a month in France during April but we are going to change Vets on our return and try and get advice from one Vet at a practice and not the 'minions' they usually attempt to fob us off with.
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You have a point KeithandMargaret however IF they give me new passports without further ado - I may not move - his explanation was reasonable enough - and for everything else he has been excellent. I have searched quite a while to find him as he is homeopathically trained as well. I have used homeopathy successfully on animals for longer than on me! Brilliant on a pony with sweetitch! But I will be checking out the paperwork very carefully if I do stay with them. I already travel 16 miles to this one - I wouldn't touch the local vet practice with a barge pole. One of the penalties of living in rural Lincolnshire!
Since writing the above I had a call from senior vet and he needs me to get the passports to him - he mentioned the change of rules by the manufacturers of the stuff changing the rules - then said he had attended an event when the rules came out and the Ministry Vet got it all wrong anyway! So I think I will give them the benefit of the doubt this time. After all they did alert me to the fact that the passport is out of date even if that was the incorrect advice - but at least I haven't got stranded abroad.
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We heard that the reason to have annual jabs was because if there was an outbreak where you were whilst in France the local authorities would have the power to destroy any dog that did not have a jab within 12 months, regardless of what country you were from. Would hope this was incorrect but we don't chance it
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France has regained its rabies-free status since 2015 after an incident involving a dog that was brought into France from Algeria and had rabies at the time it entered the country.
The current Public Health England rabies risk assessment for the whole of France is therefore - no risk.
The UK PETS Travel Scheme, governing ability to re-enter the UK after travelling, the duration of validity of the vaccine is dictated by the Data Sheet for the vaccine (in the UK as approved by the UK Government Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD)) and published by the vaccine manufacturer.
Pets vaccinated in the UK will have the passport Rabies Vaccine 'valid until date' completed by an Official Veterinarian at your chosen practice according to the Data Sheet stipulation, which may vary depending on brand and evidence provided to the VMD by the manufacturer as to demonstrated duration of activity.
Data sheets can be found on the NOAH UK website for anyone wanting to see the options available to vets.
The reason why the 'same' Rabies vaccine may have different validity or Data Sheet Duration of Activity, depending on the country, is that there are different licensing agencies in each country, and while some vaccines are run through the central European licensing body, EMA, and get a Europe-wide licence which should be the same across all states, some vaccines have been run through specific countries' agencies to get specific licences in those countries.
And so may contain some variation, which may depend on the evidence requirements of each country, and the cost of assessment of the evidence and licence issue in each country, compared with the commercial presence of a manufacturer and the likely use of their vaccine, and so economic return on the product, in those countries.
Hope this helps.
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Whilst France may be generally rabies free, one possible issue of concern is that if a local outbreak should occur, as has happened in the past due to illegally imported pets, then any dog within a 50 km radius can be seized by the authorities, and if it has not had a rabies vaccination in the past 12 months will be put down. A 3 year validity period in the pet passport will not save the animal in this circumstance.
That you will get caught up in this way is extremely unlikely of course, but possibly some parts of the country are potentially more susceptible. Visiting Provence and points south last year I noted that some campsites stipulate that dogs must be vaccinated against rabies, and the certificate shown. One issue with that corner of France apparently is that feral dogs can roam along the coast from Italy, and are potential vectors for rabies.
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Quote - 'then any dog within a 50 km radius can be seized by the authorities, and if it has not had a rabies vaccination in the past 12 months will be put down. A 3 year validity period in the pet passport will not save the animal in this circumstance.'
Could you indicate where you got this information?
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I am amazed that France is rabies free - how on earth did they eradicate it from the wildlife it was my understanding that it was an impossible task? I remember all the fears that foxes would bring it through the tunnel.
I am satisfied that my dogs are covered for a further two years and very much hope I don't get caught up in a rabies scare area as I do not agree with over vaccination which is what it would be if I were to stick to the one year rule in France. I wonder if it's possible to get the one year vaccine here.
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A good question K&M to which i can't immediately give an answer. I'm fairly sure I first saw it mentioned in a discussion on CT a couple of years ago, but so far the search tool has not found it.
However, a quick trawl on Google did bring up a link referring to the May 2015 outbreak which included this quote (my emphasis):
"Following confirmation of the diagnosis, a regulated zone was put in place in order to limit the movements of domestic carnivores, to establish increased surveillance and to strengthen the capture of stray animals. Carnivores non properly vaccinated that could have had contact with the case will be euthanized. Carnivores properly vaccinated that could have had contact with the case will be under clinical monitoring for 6 months."
This is the actual link the above came from.
From this I'd assume that whilst the size of the zone and the quality of evidence of vaccination looked for is not stated here, the authorities clearly seem to have the power to seize and euthanase.
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Somewhere back on this thread it was suggested that each country respected the others rabies regulations? My guess is that they might not want to upset "tourists" (with valid passports of course) but on the other hand we are talking about the French
. I also think it's right that the authorities have the power to destroy animals in a risk area if they are not vaccinated. Years ago we lived in a rabies area in Germany where stray dogs were shot on site, late one night there was a dog barking outside our house and I kept wishing someone would stop it - until finally through the mists of sleep I thought the bark was familiar! Other half had forgotten to let our beloved dog back in the house! We were very lucky that night! Guess who was in the doghouse for a while! (Best place for him - but that is going off topic).0 -
A dog was confirmed as having Rabies in the Rhóne-Alpes region of France in May 2015 and bit several people and another dog.
The rabid dog was in contact with two dogs, one vaccinated and one unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated dog was euthanased and the vaccinated dog put under surveillance and re-vaccinated.
Unless your dog actually comes in contact with a rabid dog while in France, and rabies infected animals have been almost unknown there in many years, the chance of having a problem is virtually nil.
Processional Caterpillars and Sand Flies are a much more potent threat than the minimal chance of contact with Rabies infected dogs.
The rabies vaccines used by the UK and France are usually from the same manufacturer and the same strength but it's the National Governments agencies who decide the length of time the vaccine is considered effective.
French agencies, I think it's called 'Food, Environmental and Occupational Health Safety' (ANSES), decides one year; the UK (DEFRA) decides three years.
As you say, the less 'extra' treatments your epileptic dog has to have the better and knowing how many tablets my dog has to have for the same condition I'm quite happy to go to France with the three year stamp in his Passport and take my chances.
I'll leave you to make your own.
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I can give you the correct information as i have two dogs which we take to France.
The first time i had my Dog Vaccination against Rabies he was ok for three years.In some cases depending who your Vet is it could be two years . When we bought another dog who comes with us as well he was done last year and he is ok for three years too.Ask the Question at your Vets.As for the French Vets yes they want to see the Passport and yes they are thorough in their checks.
Certain Uk Vets Charge different Prices i opt for the Animal Trust they listen to you and do not charge a consultation fee
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Arrivakids unfortunately I don't know if the French Authorities would agree in the event of an outbreak when they have the power to destroy. I am prepared to take that risk to avoid my epileptic dog being over medicated. However to be 100% sure I think I might go with the French rule of one year cover when this dog is no longer. Brexit may well change the rules again!
But for the return to the UK the 3 year thing is in order - as long as the vaccinations have been done correctly - and as I understand it not allowed to lapse.
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