How to thrive on a non 240v site!
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Nice to know Tammygirl. Savings will carry on! I just paid 70ppl so not bad. You can get it cheaper tho but as you say, if you ain't got anywhere else you have to be happy with what you have. Isn't it great to know that you have helped to turn off a revenue stream to Calor that is now out of date. Gaslow and Safefill are the future.😀
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With the new branding of the 'club' to 'Pioneer - At heart, we're explorers forever looking to learn, discover and innovate.' Does that now mean the 'club will actively support the innovation of products such as Safefill, Gaslow etc. The 'club' are in the perfect position being full members of UKLPG (the trade association of the LPG industry).
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dwlgll20, I may be prejudiced but the folk who have embraced the new technologies and have shown that it is perfectly possible to caravan without an EHU are the "pioneers"- The club will of course, carry on seeking profit by selling their EHUs to the masses. We will remain on the periphery but that's fine with me! But, we are growing and one day the club will have to take note! As for Safefill, I have said for 3 years that a quality product can't be held down for very long and that Safefill will, by its own merit, rise to a point where it will be the accepted brand for caravanners and many others. The big 2 will fail in killing it off and will have to accept it in the market place and evolve to allow for it which won't be a bad thing. Living on past glories is always dangerous for a company. In the next 6 months, I really believe my words will come true!!! Watch this space.
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Just a reminder to people reading this blog. A major sponsor for the C&MC is Calor . Now call me cynical but, is the C&MC going to upset a major sponsor? Are they seriously going to positively promote Safefill? Not only would they upset and possibly lose Calors sponsorship but they would also lose their place at the Calor TROUGH and not selling Calor cylinders by the thousands throughout the year to the hapless caravanner would mean even more monetary loss. No, it's not going to happen. If the C&MC was serious about doing the best for their "members" as the filling of Safefill/Gaslow is massively cheaper- surely they would start a pilot scheme where they install a bulk tank filling point at some, ( a few) of their key sites to allow the filling of Safefill and Gaslow but of course, they would then have to look around for someone to fill that tank and they might run up against an objection or two from certain quarters?? The C&MC need to evolve in more ways than just changing the name and logo!
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I've seen both Safefill and now Gaslow mentioned, and having never heard of either until this thread: they appear at first sight to be more or less the same thing - is there much to choose between them?
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Hi Hedge, the only similarity is the fact that they are owner owned and self filled! As I was at the show again yesterday and I happened to visit the Gaslow stand, I would say that the Gaslow system and a system called 'Gas it' is more suitable to the motorhome although many MHers use Safefill.The cylinders, if Gaslow or Gas it are used, are fixed into the vehicle and are filled from an outside inlet - similar to filling a car. They are steel so you have the weight issue. They are also regulated to the 80% fill etc.
The Safefill on the other hand is a stand alone cylinder which can be taken to the filling point by itself and filled. Again, it is regulated to 80% fill etc. You don't have to take the car and caravan to the garage! The problem is that most garages will accept the Gaslow system as it it a fixed system but of course you have the problem of taking the whole vehicle whether it be MH or car and caravan to the filling point- not great when on holiday! Safefill has faced vicious opposition from the LPG industry since its inception about 5 yrs ago and they have had to fight all the way to bring a truly brilliant product to the market place. They are still here and I know more than most about what is happening in the background to this fight. The fight has occurred of course because of money. Calor and Flogas, being the largest players in the game have obviously tried to put the skids under Safefill because it does away with the need to hire a cylinder from them, therefore, denying them a very easy and valuable revenue stream. I got rid of my Calor cylinders 3 years ago, in fact I tell a lie, I still have an empty Calor light which I can't ever see me using again. Why would I pay Calor £24 for 6kgs of LPG when I can take my own cylinder which is perfectly legal and has met every safety standard imposed on it, and get the same thing for £6? I wouldn't!! The other thing that has retarded Safefills expansion into the market place are the idiots that fill Calor cylinders with adaptors etc - a most dangerous practice as there is no way of telling how full it is and 100% fill is normal - that has caused incidents on forecourts and of course, Safefill being a stand alone cylinder, has received the same broad brushstroke that has been applied. The more educated outlets however have it right and are benefiting from increased gas sales as a result.
Safefill, because its such a brilliant product, will survive and flourish. There are filling points all over the country but because of "Fake News" being put out about Safefill, there are not as many as there will be when the education finally gets out there which is happening at the moment. When garage groups realise they have been duped into believing Safefill is not legal, or doesn't meet regulations or being straight forward 'leaned on' by their gas supplier, they will (and are) come on board. For me , it was easy. For years , like so many of my friends in the caravanning world, I was paying high prices for LPG from a cartel who were doing very nicely thank you very much. I saw the opportunity to break the stranglehold that Calor had got on me and I did. Liberty and freedom is very important to me and that goes for my purchasing choices too. Safefill has given all of us the opportunity to have choices. Some will never buy a Safefill or Gaslow system simply because they are the folk who stick rigidly to the good old EHU and if you don't use much gas, why would you? However, the non EHUer - a creature who was regarded until fairly recently to be something a little strange, is quids in with either system. Those non EHUers are growing in numbers as people are waking up to the new technologies and realise the potential of them.
So, in conclusion, Gaslow or Gas it for MHs and Safefill for caravans although I was told that more and more are having Gaslow fitted to caravans. Mind you, it was Gaslow that told me that, and my question would be "With a caravan, Why would you? "
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The above information is incorrect in that just like Safefill, Gaslow also sell a direct filling cylinder you can take to the LPG "pump", as well as their better known fully integrated systems.
http://www.thegaslowcentre.co.uk/gaslow-r67-direct-fill-11kg-cylinder.html
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I apologise. The Gaslow system is USUALLY fixed and that's what they sell the system on- the fact that you can fill up at any LPG outlet! The Safefill is marketed as a stand alone cylinder. Not once did Gaslow ever mention to me taking one of their cylinders by itself and as I kept telling them I was a caravanner, you would think they would. Thank you Ocsid for the clarification there.
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I find it useful not to totally get rid of a spare Calor cylinder. If, (not happened yet though) I could not get my Safefill topped up then I can just exchange the empty Calor for a full one as we used to do before enlightenment in the form of Safefill.
By the way for the MH, there is also a fixed system called Alugas that uses lightweight cylinders.
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The twist the refillable cylinder providers all appear to miss is one of flexibility, a built in with removal capability. A Safefill with a "buddy kit" to an external filler at one end, a cylinder snap on at the other.
So, whilst towing you can use all the LPG forecourts that have a viable access for a towed unit or MH, thus not challenging the station owner's rules. But have the flexibility of a portable cylinder you can take at your convenience to an outlet without such restrictions; if indeed you ever need to.
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Gaslow make just such a system. Their "portable" cylinder can be used as a fixed installation or as a pick up and carry.
A shame Safefill cannot be used in this way due to its design but the Gaslow portable cylinder is quite a bit heavier than the lightweight Safefill
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Okay, though I have not seen them offering a filling system with snap on adaptor to exploit the portable's filling port in that way.
In addition, it only has a draw-off port and I can't see using that to fill would be wise even if physically possible because of a check valve?
Technically I can see a filling line with a self-sealing snap on connector fitted to the filling port too challenging or unsafe, as the existing remains full of liquid LPG anyway. It would need a relief or be made in a compliant material to live with temperature changes.
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"the Gaslow portable cylinder is quite a bit heavier than the lightweight Safefill".
Yes, but it also takes 10% more LPG and the weights tare are 12.5 compared to claimed 5 kgs.
I am envisaging very infrequently lugging it about, only the occasions where I get things really wrong and need to go off site for an emergency refill. Very rare I expect as would retain carrying a 10 Kg Gaslight buffer.
That said I would prefer a Safefill variant as I am into the composite plastic bottles despite the reduced capacity.
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Unfortunately Ocsid, Safefill has never been able to be filled from an external filling point- it's just not designed that way with only one inlet. Therefore, Safefill, have never supplied a fill hose but some people insist for some reason that they have! Safefills words- not mine. I have all three sizes which I find extremely flexible. If it's a 4 day trip- 5Kg. A week - 8kg - a fortnight or longer- the 10.3 kg and the 5Kg as backup.
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Of course, to put cats among pigeons here, we should really be hoping for the next step, as while these systems sound like a great improvement on the Calor gas monopoly, and I can see myself going for Safefill, they still use oil-based gas. I wonder if anyone's developing a bio gas suitable for camping/caravanning use.
?
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Interesting question Hedgehurst - I wouldn't have thought it important enough to spend money researching that with LPG being a bi-product anyway? That gel stuff that can run a simple camping stove is interesting though - but that too is a bi-product isn't it?
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It's not snap on but it can be fitted with a kit to allow connection to the external filler. Disconnect this, connect it to a pigtail, and you can then use it as free standing.
Best to contact Gas Low direct as I had this conversation with a Gas Low rep and he assured me the R65 cylinder was designed with this flexibility in mind.
If I go back to a MH I think I will go for a fixed underbody tank and also use my Safefill / spare Calor as the second supply source. There is a company called Autogas 2000 (no connection excuse the pun). that would certainly be able to fabricate a connection system without great difficulty.
With a Caravan, a Safefill and a spare empty Calor (hoping you never need to have it re filled)covers a lot of bases.
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I haven't come across this gel stuff yet, Pippah45, so can't comment. And now it's really tempting to spend lots of time researching that, but I have loads of music which needs to be practised today!
Somebody, somewhere on that monster thread about CC name change, when I very briefly dipped into it a few days back, predicted caravans were going to be history soon: we shouldn't be towing boxes around behind gas guzzling diesel vehicles. (Somehow motorhomes were going to be OK in his view, but that's dangerously close to going OT here!) Either way, we do need to work on reducing fossil fuel use. Solar panels are one great way, I was just wondering about the future of portable gas. Holiday users are far from the only people needing such stuff, and bio fuels are being developed - good as long as they're not the by-product of the appalling trade in palm oil.
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The gel is Bio Ethanol Gel Fuel "the Bio Friendly energy solution" it says on the tin. I have a very neat package for emergencies that came from Go Outdoors. It keeps my Fondue Set going and is also used for lighting the Lotus Grill enabling it, along with the built in fan, to be ready to cook in 10 mins. The gel seems to replace Methylated Spirit for those who remember some of those gadgets - actually I have a small smoker that would probably run on gel instead of Meths that I normally use. I still remember a picnic thing my father had that ran on Meths - and always seemed a fire hazzard but that could have been the way my father treated it! He was somewhat dangerous around fire!.
I heat my house with LPG which runs the Rayburn for cooking and heating.
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Wow, how much useful information can you get into one thread.
Only just starting off down the caravan route but I would very much like to be as off EHU as possible. The caravan comes with a 100w So that's a start and I'll be fitting the biggest leisure battery I can get.
I'd like to fit a second battery and inverter but space seems to be the biggest issue. In order to keep cable losses to a minimum (especially on the DC input side to the inverter where currents are highest) I assume everything has to be as close together as possible. Having already looked there is next to no room inside the caravan adjacent to the external battery box, certainly not enough to fit both. So my first question is where does everyone fit all the extra kit?
Also I'd like to connect it all so that if I was on EHU the mains sockets were powered from there (as standard) but when I was "off grid" the inverter (when switched on) powered all the sockets instead, the switch over being automatic. I know this is practically possible, but, and this is the second question. Am I legally allowed to modify and adapt the mains wiring within the caravan?
Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
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Watch out for compromising your Warranty. I have done a fair bit off grid but with only one battery SP and inverter - weight issues have so far kept me from going to two batteries. But I haven't run out of juice yet. It all depends of course how much you need to draw.
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Never thought of the warranty side of things, thanks for that Pippah. Weight shouldn't be a problem, I'm having the plate upgraded so will have a payload of 250Kg ish. It'll be a single battery with SP to start with and see how that goes, pretty sure I can cover everything on 12v so the inverter side would be a "just in case" option, probably just for OH hairdryer.
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On a "need" like a hairdryer that is not life-critical, I would not dream of having a big inverter as it would require on standby. Its quiescent load will be a significant drain we can't cope with on our modest recreation vehicle solar systems. It needs to be on a switched on only when required basis.
250 kgs payload might seem a lot but two 25 kg 110 Ahr batteries will wipe 20% off at a stroke even before you look into integrating them safely into the van.
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