How to thrive on a non 240v site!

2456726

Comments

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #32

    Thanks guys. I'll have a look.

  • Dick Dastardly
    Dick Dastardly Forum Participant Posts: 17
    edited January 2017 #33

    I'm looking at buying a 12v TV to use in the new caravan (Elddis Supreme 482) when it's delivered. I'll have a 110Ah battery and 100w solar panel fitted. I'll only be using the battery for lighting, radio and charging e-readers, etc - hopefully nothing too taxing. I want to use the TV on 12v when 'off grid' and ideally it should be simple and 'idiot-proof' to tune in when away, as there will only be Penelope Pitstop and I to operate it! .

    Would you be kind enough to make a recommendation based on your experiences, please? Any comments would be most gratefully received. I can then attend the NEC armed with information, prices etc, to see if there are any deals there. 

    Many thanks,

    DD & PP

  • Tirril
    Tirril Forum Participant Posts: 439
    100 Comments
    edited January 2017 #34

    We have an 18" Avtex tv which I believe consumes about 30 watts and we have been able to watch a max of 3 hrs using a 110 amp battery with a 120 watt solar panel. This was in the late spring through to early autumn when there was still some evening light available whilst the tv was in use. Often the battery is fully recharged by mid morning. The TV has a good auto tuning system, including 'Easy Find" which gives a red to green light so you can manually move a sat dish to locate a satellite.

    The negatives about my Avtex is the high price ((£400 5 yrs back) and the picture has a yellow bias which no amount of adjustment can properly rectify. The range has been updated so you would need to check the specification but they are generally considered to be good for low consumption and tuning but expensive compared to other alternatives.

  • Pippah45
    Pippah45 Forum Participant Posts: 2,452
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #35

    I also have an Avtex it is certainly easy enough to tune.  I am very low use on lights when off EHU preferring candlelight anyway - candles that float in water to be extra safe.  Also I would look at the energy saving bulbs at the NEC.  I  do quite a bit of charging when in the car out and about but it isn't nearly as hard as some people think to thrive off grid! 

  • triky auto
    triky auto Forum Participant Posts: 8,690
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #36

    undecided Dick ,,there is a 12v/240 TV + suitcase 'Sat' on Ebay !!  Have a look !!wink.

  • Dick Dastardly
    Dick Dastardly Forum Participant Posts: 17
    edited January 2017 #37

    Tirrel, thanks for a well balanced & objective summary. I had Avtex in my sights and its good to hear the pros and cons from users. Pippah, thanks for your enthusiasm regarding 'thriving' On non-ehu. I'm a non-ehu novice atm but hope to enjoy 'self-sufficiency' in comfort this season. My lights are all LED but I intend to maximise my time at the NEC pricing up kit and listening out for top tips and advice. Tricky, I can be thick at times- I hadn't thought of surfing Ebay for 12v TVs or other caravan stuff!  CT is great - thanks for your help everybody.

    DD & PP

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #38

    DD -Yes, I would go with the members that recommended Avtex. I have one and find it very easy to tune and economical on the batteries. We can certainly watch 2or 3 hrs of tele if wish too but I'm normally outside with my Weber go anywhere BBQ using it as a fire pit and singing a verse of 'cum by yar' ( not really) smile You'll have a busy day at the NEC but it'll be worth it. Remember, always a good idea to spend on quality! Best of luck mate.

  • DaveandVicki
    DaveandVicki Forum Participant Posts: 192
    edited January 2017 #40

    Whilst we haven't gone off grid, we tend to use CL's and therefore try to keep costs to the owners down by using gas were possible. We have used three bottles so far since Christmas (Yes, we are on Safefill)

    We are soon to stay at a club site for a few nights but we will be running on electric instead of gas.

    The reason, because the club have no interest in promoting anything where they will not make money, be it "Off Grid" camping or CL use.

    Don't hold your breath Merve waiting for a realistic article.

  • MJ730
    MJ730 Forum Participant Posts: 184
    edited January 2017 #41

    Merve.Have you thought about getting in touch with Practical Caravan they may be interested in running an article about off grid as they seem to do led lights etc.

    Mike

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #43

    Hi Guys. Thank you for your support in this venture. Bakers2, Give it a go! Others have like Tirrill and Wye and have been really pleased they did. I'm very pleased to see you are using an SP. You have taken the first step to complete power independence as far as electricity is concerned. I have an article in the the last ACCEO mag which has been met with approval from several quarters. I still have it on my phone so I will try to reproduce it on here. As an aside, I am not trying to 'convert' anyone to non EHU. Those who refuse to look at it have that right but I believe they are missing out. Of course - They may not think so. I read of these folks who pay their money, arrive on site and turn everything on or at least as much as they can without tripping the 16amps!! They even heat the awning. I'm sorry, but that just isn't me - using power and natural resources because you think you are entitled! No one is entitled to waste our natural resource! Bakers, tell the OH that non EHU camping is totally possible and totally comfortable. I understand the idea of having the 'insurance' of a cable stuck in the side of the van but my insurance is that the sun rises every day and if not sunny, it still produces power. I would be the first to say that winter is a different ball game. You may indeed need a hook up but if your heat is being created by Safefill Gas and the heating pump is using just over 1amp theres not a lot of problems there I think - as long as the gas refill point is not to far away. Its just a different way of doing things - and only a little different. I have just booked a fortnight in the Lakes in August on - wait for it - an EHU site! First time Ive done that in 3 years but its in ther right place for what we want to do. But I will not be using the EHU - why would I? and have told the site so. Nightly fee reduced from £10 to £8. £28 saved. Yes not a lot but every little helps as they say. If there is a power cut it wont worry me!! Investment in equipment that allows you to go off grid, as you can see from other members, is money well spent. It comes back to you in saved fees. Mine has come back to me and I am now on a win win situation where I can stay on £4 a night sites and not worry. Again, I have booked a site in Dorset near the coast for £4 a night for three weeks in July. Ive been there before. A total of £84 instead of the usual EHU CL of let's say as an average £14 a night - £210 SAVED and no diminution of comfort. - with Photonics Universe doing 200w SPs with all the fitting kit AND the controller (MTTP) at £339.99 you can see that it doesn't take that long to get your money back from the investment. The new technologies of SP, LEDs and owner filled cylinders are an absolute Godsend for the modern caravanners. 2 years ago, I went to Pandy CC Site for a couple of nights on the way through to St Davids. I got talking, as you do, to the next door neighbor . I am not exaggerating when I say he was gobsmacked when he found out how I caravanned! He just couldn't believe it. He had never heard of such a thing- his words not mine. How many others are out there who, if they knew they could do it, would! I just wish the Caravan Club would acknowledge that!!!

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #44

    Good idea Mike. Will approach them. I also blog on the caravan talk forum and have helped several there too. One guy I remember was thrilled to find out that not only could it be done but that I was doing it and with great success.he had obviously been searching for some time for straight answers. As far as I know he headed straight for the non EHU shop! Oh and by the way, my stay at Pandy was on vouchers!!

  • Pippah45
    Pippah45 Forum Participant Posts: 2,452
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #45

    Mrs Baker does your tv work off 12v - it would use a lot less juice if it will.  Mine (Avtex) is always plugged into 12v unless I bring it into the kitchen at home!  For me being off grid gives so much more choice - not to mention kind on the pocket. 

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant, Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 8,295
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited January 2017 #46

    It's a household TV, reading what others have written somewhere on CT it may have a transformer on it but neither of us understand 🙄. We haven't even been allowed to try TV via the invertor 😂😂. We have a 12v socket next to the ordinary socket but no idea what sort of connection it needs. See what you're up against 😂😂😋. We need a full, with illustrations, idiots guide and preferably someone to be beside us for the entire time!

  • Dick Dastardly
    Dick Dastardly Forum Participant Posts: 17
    edited January 2017 #47

    Merve, first of all thank you for your advice regarding 12v TV's. It is so very much appreciated.

    With regard to your rather well written post on the reluctance of the CC mag to run an article, do remember that there are other fish in the sea! If the CC won't publish then approach other publications such as Practical Caravan etc, as suggested by Mike. Another idea would be to write your own article and publish it online and leave a link for us to follow. Or approach e-books or Kindle to publish - it's worth consideration.

    On a personal note, please hurry as I get my new caravan in March and I was reading the lost thread on How to Survive for advice and ideas! ;0) 

    I wish you the best of luck.

    DD

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant, Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 8,295
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited January 2017 #49

    Thanks Merve very comprehensive. I think our inverter is probably too small,  couldn't tell you what it is but only enough for TV. Will definitely have a serious chat with hubby. Biggest issue would be how long TV could be on, we use it for radio too but have a battery operated radio so that takes that away. I don't know what size our battery is. How do I find out? How could I work out how long TV could be used for on full battery? Otherwise it'd only be led lights using 12v.

    Told you it is going to be basic 😂😂

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #50

    Hi Bakers, Is the Amp Hour of the battery not marked on it? I have to say I'm not sure how you would check it? I'm sure someone will know though. There must be a tester of some type that would give you clue.

    How do you work out how long you can have your tele on with a full battery? - that's a bit more complicated. Firstly, is your battery in tip top condition? Assuming it is, and for ease of calculating it. Using Ohms law (and you can find any amount of useful Ohms Law calculators on the web) Lets say your battery is 100 ah. The voltage is 12v So, all you need now is a second value to complete your calculation and that would be the draw or consumption of the appliance, in this case, a television. Again, lets assume the power (or consumption) in watts is 30w. So, dividing 12 into 30 goes 2.5 which is the Amps it draws per hour. So, if you ran your tele and nothing else from your tip top battery theoretically, and the word here is theoretically, you could run your tele for 20 hrs. Now, you may wonder why you can't get 40hrs out of it - that is because a battery only gives 50% of its power before being considered flat, So you only have 50ahs to play with. (I am not an electrician or anything like one so I am prepared to be corrected by a more knowledgeable dude!) Anyway, back to the calculation. Now, I mentioned the word theoretically- that's because your battery probably isn't in tip top condition and if you are running it through an inverter then the inverter is drawing power too. (That's why I kill mine as soon as I have finisheded with it.) Then there is the resistance of the cabling and wiring etc which won't be great but will still account for a little more. Running it on 12v will help as that will dispense with the inverter. We only run things through our inverter which can't be done with 12v ( ok a vacuum could but we had already bought it and it's good and powerful) I hope that explains a little of the 'new thinking' for non EHU. And if any of you trade electricians want to put me right then please feel free. I will always welcome knowledge. ( Bakers- tell him to take up reading or something - its cheaper and more informative LOL 😂 )

  • Fysherman
    Fysherman Forum Participant Posts: 1,570
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #51

    B2. You don't even need a TV if you have a laptop. Simply buy a TV USB plug in tuner (mine happens to be "Total Media" but there are loads for about £25) Then a 12v lead from Amazon for your laptop and just plug it into the 12v socket in your caravan and plug in the aerial into the USB tuner and watch telly with VERY little current draw all day if you want to.

    Merve. Wasting your time with the CC. They are not interested as it would take potential customers for their overpriced sites away. Try the other club as they are far more focused upon independent (off grid)campers and caravanners with their support of low cost off gridTemp Holiday Sites. Everybody has a SP on these sites.

    Might just see you on that CL near BB Merve in July. We have unfinished sea Fyshing business. All the best mate. Fysh

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited January 2017 #52

    That would be great Fysh! Yes we do have unfinished business ! I hadn't forgotten. Always willing to be taught by a master!  Yes, I think you might be right mate- a waste of time but I have proved ( as though I needed it proved) that the CC is nothing more than a hard nosed business with a thin veneer of grace and tranquility. I would just rather they be honest and say ' Get lost!' Great comments about TV mate- it hadn't occurred to me but we do watch catch up on our pads. - thanks for the tips. I'm sure Mr B2 will be highly relieved knowing he can watch wall to wall box!😂😂😂.

  • DaveandVicki
    DaveandVicki Forum Participant Posts: 192
    edited February 2017 #54

    Merve

    Can I ask you a question, and please don't take it as an attack on your way of caravanning, it is a serious question.....

    ...you have your roof mounted SP, 2x 110amh batteries and your inverter. What does that little lot weigh ?

    You see, I already have to carry 2 wheelchairs and a ramp to get into/out of the caravan I worry about the weight of my van if I add a SP and extra battery.

    I think I may not be alone in this respect. I know some new vans have SP's fitted as standard these days, but assumed they made weight savings elsewhere.

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited February 2017 #55

    DaveandVicki there is always an exception to the rule as they say. I see your dilemma mate and you have my concern. I'm not exactly sure what it weighs but i would say the kit is about 20-25kilos. Now, when i travel i tend to load as much as i can in the tow car- a 21 year old 3lt Toyota Surf. The caravan travels light. We sort the caravan out when we arrive on site. It takes longer but allows us to stay within legal requirements. I am sure that I read somewhere that manufacturers can upgrade weight if required. In this country we tend to be law abiding which is something that the continentals, in this field at least, don't worry about so much. The stuff they carry to holiday is amazing!! One bloke had his chest freezer with him - I kid you not. I would make enquiries with your caravan manufacturer- you may be pleasantly surprised and thanks for your question- I appreciate it- its great to have a talking point! I know this isn't a one size fits all- how could it be? I just try to promote thought.   I have no intention of offending or insulting anyone - just to promote a conversation on non EHU and surrounding items. Thank you.

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
    1000 Comments
    edited February 2017 #56

    I know people who caravan w/o ehu with various disabilities and there are plenty of able bodied people who couldn't possibly go without ehu because they NEED to use a hairdryer or whatever. So I believe it comes down to personal circumstances.
    The weight aspect is a valid question. TBH weight is always an issue with caravans because of the inadequate payload specified by manufacturers. The weight limit is driven largely by two factors. Firstly the marketing department wants to show the caravan is relatively light weight so put a low limit on it knowing people will overload it and never know I probably fall into that category. The second factor is the axle maximum weight ALko specify axles in I think 50kg increments and it is this weight that represents the true maximum weight. If it is rated at 1500kg then that is the maximum the mptlm could be. However at the construction stage I don't think there would be any technical reason why for example a 1700kg axle was fitted instead of the standard 1500kg one, obviously tyres might have to be changed to the correct load index. It might also be possible to argue that this is a specific adaption and alter the vat situation.

    I personally don't have a big inverter like Merve but I do have an extra battery and a 150W solar panel. The battery weighs about 25kg and the SP isn't light weight. I think if you wanted to dip your toe in the water for a weekend so to speak you probably don't need anything special except for a battery in good condition and a full gas bottle. The easy way to prove me right or wrong is simply next time you go away in the caravan simply don't plug in. If you have a problem you can always plug in. So it's a safety net.

  • DaveandVicki
    DaveandVicki Forum Participant Posts: 192
    edited February 2017 #57

    " I think if you wanted to dip your toe in the water for a weekend so to speak you probably don't need anything special except for a battery in good condition and a full gas bottle. The easy way to prove me right or wrong is simply next time you go away in the caravan simply don't plug in. If you have a problem you can always plug in. So it's a safety net."

     

    Thanks Boff.

    This was exactly my way of thinking but we need to get a bigger battery first, we only have an 85amh one at the moment. we already run most things off gas while on CL's anyway.

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited February 2017 #58

    Yes, I agree. Two or three days is perfectly possible without any additional equipment. Before America became embroiled in the various wars we have seen over the last 25 yrs, we used to go to Mildenhall to the air show which was one of the best around. We would set up up the caravan on the Thursday at Round Plantation, arrive with the kids after they finished school on the Friday and have a wonderful weekend at the show returning on the Monday. Two days was fine but the system then was either a green LED or if the power was failing- a red LED. By the Sunday night the red LED would  invariably be on. We had to plug the car up to do anything after that.  Thinking about it, in those days, the battery would not have been top quality and probably not in the best of condition. We live and learn! God, I love my Solar Panel!! There's no doubt that the bigger the battery, the longer you can go for, but, it stands to reason and as has been said, it needs to be in tip top condition and holding a full charge. 

  • trellis
    trellis Forum Participant Posts: 1,102
    1000 Comments
    edited February 2017 #59

    Merve,I have just read this post in its entirety ,one I shall keep a close eye on for future reference when I take the non leccy step .You my friend are one passionate believer who could no doubt sell sand to the Arabs . Look forward to stalking you.smilesmile

  • Hedgehurst
    Hedgehurst Forum Participant Posts: 576
    100 Comments
    edited February 2017 #60

    Merve, we're complete caravan virgins, yet to actually take it on the road, but after years of tent camping with no equipment that would plug into an EHU anyway, I do find your information inspiring. We don't want to get into multi-gizmo caravanning, and as long as our first few trips go well I can see us getting addicted, when a move towards more solar power seems truly attractive!
    Thanks for all this... when do you publish the book? smile

    Richard

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
    1000 Comments
    edited February 2017 #61

    That's something to think about Hedgehurst! I hope you have a great caravanning life. You'll love it I'm sure - you sound as though you are from the right stock!! Do be independent. You don't need electricity created but burning fossil fuels. You can make your own, silent, clean electricity. Think outside the CC box. Folk on here have taken the path to power independence and to a man, (and woman) they are sold on it. Wye, Tirrill, Bolero Boy, Boff! Pippah etc. Take a look at Safefill as well. That is just as important to reducing costs as the mighty SP is. I said a couple of years back that I couldn't see me ever going back to the straight jacket of EHU. Now I know I never will go back to it. Our holidays since I made that decision have been better because of my newly found independence- and less stressed. The costs have been slashed and I am a happy bunny. Let me give you an example. A couple or three years ago we went on our first non EHU trip to North Devon. We went to Leddon Farm, Welcome- site 444 in the book, now, thats just up the road from Trewethett Farm. Without doubt, a beautiful site. We went at peak time so for us to stay at Trewethett would have been at today's prices £26 per night because as I said - views cost right? We had wonderful views too, not directly from the site but with a small walk we were on the coastal path. Now, 14 x 26 = £364 at Trewethett - I note in the book that at Leddon Farm, it's STILL the price I paid - £5 a night and we had everything we wanted powerwise and it was a spacious site with your next door neighbour well away from you. My bill £70. A £294 saving on fees! A third of the installation costs back in my pocket from one holiday, or, if an EHU CL at £14 a night thats still £126 saved! So what was the difference between someone staying at Trewethett and us? - A view - and not from anything like all the vans there. Can you live on a view or would you prefer to have another £294 to spend on holiday? I know what I prefer. I find my own views and my own tranquility and they are ever changing. I hope I have given you and others the encouragement to look seriously at the new technologies and get the most out of them. Thanks for your post.