Loosing More CLs, why?

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  • Spriddler
    Spriddler Forum Participant Posts: 646
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    edited January 2017 #92

    According to the Institute of Economic Affairs there are still 30 pubs closing every week in the U.K (59 a week throughout Recession hit 2009), and there were 58,200 public houses in 2006 but just 44,000 last year.

    Some of them may have been CLs. 

  • Spriddler
    Spriddler Forum Participant Posts: 646
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    edited January 2017 #93

    Incidentally, more than 1,000 dairy farms have closed since June 2013, according to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) report 2016.

    North Yorkshire (your patch Justus2) lost 89 farms, the highest total of any county, while Berkshire saw the greatest rate of decline with a third of farms closing.

  • Richard12
    Richard12 Forum Participant Posts: 112
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    edited January 2017 #94

    We are great users of CLs, have been since 1978, in fact I have just booked some for this year. 

    But the problem of why CLs are closing can I think only be answered by two people, the Caravan Club and the CL owner.

    Years ago when a CL closed the CC entered next to the CL name an abbreviation why the CL was closing, I would like to see that reinstated.

    Just a thought

  • Lessey
    Lessey Forum Participant Posts: 7
    edited January 2017 #95

    We as a 'young' family love cl sites yes we like a bit of a park but it isn't essential. Actually one of our favourites sites is a cc listed with the other club! By young I mean both us and the kids I'm 28 my wife 30 and my kind do 6,5,2 and 10 1/2 months. Oh and add in a 17 week old puppy who's being trained to be a pat dog. 

    The above comment is the outside impression people have of the club and why a lot of our friends won't join it! At the end of the day if you can get more facilities for the same price in a similar location most people would.

    i personally like a shower etc as when the kids are trying to sleep at night it is easier and quieter to shower else (particularly if I decide to sing while I'm in it!) but also it can (believe I or not get a bit cramped trying to get 4 kids washed etc at the same time as tea prepared or everything put away. Add in the one is potentially autistic and we can have have issues at shower time then more space helps. Also my wife has a tracheotomy fitted and the shower facilities make it easier for her to shower as a lot of the time she needs disabled facilities as if she gets water in her tube it is lights out! And the risk for this in a confined space like the caravan is to great. But on occasion we do have to come up with imaginative ways to cope!

    sorry for the rant but occasionally a comment is made and the venting just happens!

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,044 ✭✭✭
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    edited March 2017 #96

    Read the latest magazine with an air of despair! Fifteen CLs lost to network, only four new on board, and at least a couple rather expensive.

  • JohnDH
    JohnDH Forum Participant Posts: 183
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    edited March 2017 #97

    In 2010 it was reported that 25% of farming households were at or below the poverty line. Nothing that I see, has changed in the last 5 or 6 years or so. Brexit might make things better. It cant be worse.

  • JCB4X4
    JCB4X4 Forum Participant Posts: 466
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    edited March 2017 #98

    ... "it can't be worse."

    I'm certainly not prepared to put my money om that, at this stage!!!

  • MichaelT
    MichaelT Forum Participant Posts: 1,874
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    edited March 2017 #99

    Yes I am sure you are right, the cost of fuel must be really hitting hard filling up the Disco!  Never seen a poor farmer yet but once we leave EU and those subsidies go for keeping a field empty who knows.

  • triky auto
    triky auto Forum Participant Posts: 8,690
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    edited March 2017 #100

    undecided Hmmm, a lot of farms in the East Kent area ,have grubbed out some unproductive fruit  trees ,as the subsidy seems to be on 'Maize' for conversion into Bio-Fuels !! Getting ready for Diesel ban ??  ?? surprised.

  • JohnDH
    JohnDH Forum Participant Posts: 183
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    edited March 2017 #101

    Try looking a little harder. :-)

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,141 ✭✭✭
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    edited March 2017 #102

    How many ordinary farmers and market garden owners do you know well, MichaelT? Many I know are struggling to survive, hence the absence of livestock in many areas and the growth of solar farms etc. Some have already given up the struggle.

    A Disco type vehicle is a necessary piece of equipment for most farmers, not a luxury.

    I feel that was a rather unfortunately worded post from you and I'm sure the farmers who use CT will be less than enamoured.

     

  • huskydog
    huskydog Club Member Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited March 2017 #103

    There is also the question of the economics of a worthwhile return of setup costs of the CL, and I feel for some CL owners that return is just not worth the effort put in to the CL,

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant Posts: 8,194 ✭✭✭
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    edited March 2017 #104

    Maybe we the CAMC are losing CL's to be self managed or going go the other club? The support from the website seems not to be improving. It's not easy to search for a CL. Reviews missing etc etc. If I needed the income I'd be looking at putting my site out there. If you're touring and spot a camping and caravan site CS you can join and stay subject to space, as I understand it you can't with this club. That would infuriate me if I were running one.  With regard to prices I understand that new CL's are offered suggested prices and I expect that's what they go by, if you have no experience you'd hope you'd get decent advice for becoming a CL with the Club,  I expect there's a fee involved too.

  • DaveCyn
    DaveCyn Club Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭
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    edited March 2017 #105

    The return on the  investment required to setup a CL with all the facilities, HS, showers/toilets for 5 vans max must be minimal.

     

    With all the advantages of these facilities, & space of course, it must be tempting to jump ship to join the C&CC & take up to 10 tents as well. Potentially tripling income overnight.

     

    There's also now the Freedom Camping Club with the same style exemption certificate. Looking at their website they also feature loads of sites catering for a lot more than 5  vans.

    Some sites on there freely state they started as CL/CS but are now taking 15, 20 or more units.

     

     

     

     

  • JohnM20
    JohnM20 Forum Participant Posts: 1,416
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    edited March 2017 #106

    Looking at the April magazine I read that there are 4 new CLs but 15 that have closed, in the words of the magazine, "since the 2017/18 Handbook was published and since the March magazine. We've only just received the handbooks so at that rate there'll be no CLs left by the end of the year.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited March 2017 #107

    Main cc sites are going the same wayundecided

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited April 2017 #108

    New Cls need to be more proactive in advertising their site here. Dont expect the club do much for you. It will be 2 years before a new book is out with your Cl in it.

  • EmblemVilla
    EmblemVilla Forum Participant Posts: 43
    edited May 2017 #109

    We have had 10 cancellations in April, 4 of which didn't bother to notify us, 1 turned up, during a power cut in our area, complained to my wife, via the 'phone,that they were cold and left, other members staying here said they were here for no more than half an hour! 2 cancelled the night before they were due to arrive. If members are going to treat CL owners like this, is it any surprise why they look elsewhere to make an income from their sites? We could have booked many more vans in over the bank holiday weekends but stuck to the rules and paid for it with a considerable amount of lost revenue. I know I'm whinging but very fed up.EV

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant Posts: 8,194 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #110

    I'm really sorry to hear that and am inclined to agree with why bother.

    Do you charge a deposit? Maybe you need to or the full amount for less than x days.  

    We use CL and club sites but wouldn't dear of treating either in this way. We'd be happy to pay deposits. 

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,141 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #111

    I've just noticed in the April C&CC mag that they list 4 new CSs but a massive 15 have closed. Perhaps it isn't just CAMC. 

  • EmblemVilla
    EmblemVilla Forum Participant Posts: 43
    edited May 2017 #112

    Hello Bakers2. We have now started to charge a deposit, and on short stays asked for the full amount to be sent. So far so good with this.What would be interesting though, is this. All members have a number, we take this when booking them in. Now we are all computerised we could forward this to the main hub. Any repeats of this number on other CLs could then be spotted and the double, treble bookers could be outed. Tadah, problem solved. With the level of cancellations we've had this season, l have to say, it does make you want to over book to cover possible no shows. I understand this is against the rules, but this is not a hobby for us, it involves work and needs to generate a descent income for us or it is not worth doing. Yes, for us, it is very enjoyable but that alone won't feed us.EV

  • IanH
    IanH Forum Participant Posts: 4,708
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    edited May 2017 #113

    A very reasonable suggestion for recording cancellation numbers.......but sadly, not something that CAMC appear to be interested in. 

    It's an easy life when you get a few hundred thousand membership fees to insulate you from the real world.

    Well done on charging deposits - it's the correct thing to do. Strange that some members are up in arms at the idea of deposits on Club sites, but readily accept them (rightly so) on CL's.

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,044 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #114

    You have every right to be fed EV. If I was in your position, I would not take bookings from those members who did not inform you they wouldn't be coming, ever again. 

    It seems to me that more and more folks are buying into touring, starting to use CLs as a cheap holiday alternative. The vast majority are well prepared and willing to put up with whatever weather gets thrown at them, and know how to cope appropriately should things turn wet or cold. But a small amount don't, or don't want to cope, and either cancel late or don't turn up at all. This spoils things for the genuine folks, and lets down the CL owners badly. 

    If we can do it in a thirty three year old caravan, or a small motorhome, I just cannot see why others in large modern super equipped outfits can't do the same. Sad though it may seem, taking a none refundable deposit may be the only way forward over Bank Holidays. In this day and age, the weather can be predicted reasonably well up to a week ahead. Hang on in there, there are a lot a very nice, loyal members who only stay members for access to the CL network!

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,640 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #115

    Sorry to hear of your experience this year EV. We would never think of cancelling due to the weather unless of course it's so bad as to close roads, and if because of illness we would certainly inform the site as soon as we could. However some members do not think about the loss that CL owners might incur due to their non-arrivals. Hope that you have much better results following the requirement to send a deposit on booking.

  • PhilHeller
    PhilHeller Forum Participant Posts: 267
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    edited May 2017 #116

    Never really thought about it, but from what EV is saying no shows and late cancellations are not reported to CAMC. Surely our lords and masters at HQ should be asking for this info as CL's deserve the same treatment of repeat offenders that main sites are supposed to dish out.

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,640 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #117

    Have just checked through the latest Site Directory and find that there are already 44 CLs that are no longer open since the book was put together, which would reduce the total to 2284 open. However if one selects all CLs using the club's web page it gives a total of only 2248 which would indicate that there's now 80 closed since publication. Wonder where they've all gone? If this trend continues there could be a drop of about 10% in a single year!!

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,044 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #118

    In an ideal world, HQ might benefit from such information, but to be brutally honest, CLs don't appear to receive a great deal of help beyond the initial start up period, and then maybe a once a year inspection. I could be wrong, and would be happy to be corrected!

    If I was running a small site, then I would be far happier setting my own methods of meeting and greeting, and dealing with the no shows. It's a bit of a learning curve no doubt for most CLs, especially new ones who may have invested quite a bit into making such a set up a big part of their income. I can't remember how new your CL is EV, but less than 5 years? Still early days if so in terms of building up a trusted coterie of repeat visitors. I know lots of the CLs we use regular no longer ask us for a deposit, as they know we will turn up hell or high water! And we don't get too uptight if CLs we haven't visited before do ask for a deposit, we are well used to this with cottage, B&B and hotel bookings. It shows our commitment!

    edit:sorry Nellie, my reply was to post before yours!laughing

  • safety
    safety Forum Participant Posts: 13
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    edited May 2017 #119

    Danger if you have any exposed rubber or plastic pipes exposed outside the caravan.   Squirrels love them and will release the gas in a very short time..We all know what a spark will do then.

  • birderbilly
    birderbilly Forum Participant Posts: 349
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    edited May 2017 #120

    The website is unreliable, we are off to a CL tomorrow which has dissapeared from the website but the owners assure us still exists ! 

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,044 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #121

    Thanks for that safety. Your fixation with squirrel's gnawing through gas pipes seems to stem from an unfortunate incident in 2013, when you found your 47 kg gas powered bird scarers, damaged. I tend to think the squirrels may be a tad more wary around occupied caravans than they are around remote bird scarers. 

    On a personal note, having had many a holiday made a deal stressful by dogs terrified of such scarers, afraid I am with the squirrels on this one!wink