Loosing More CLs, why?
Comments
-
The resistance could well be based on concerns I hold.
That is our exemption certificate to have 5 van sites is precisely that, an exemption to have these 5 van campsites without the need for Local Authority planning consent. To get 6, 7, 8 or whatever vans there would have to be a change in the law.
That will require parliament to debate this real anomaly in the law. I would suggest it will not be well received now that for some reason groups like our clubs have a concession not to need planning approval, where for everything I can think of, many having less impact on the local community, all have to get approval. By far the easier and equitable decision I feel will be lets scrub it and have a fair level playing field, and require all camping to need planning permission. Not only will 5 van sites be at risk so will the other provisions allowing up to 5 night rallies.
Those owners wanting more than 5 vans now can apply for local Authority planning permission and unless there is sound reason why they should not be granted it the law requires they are granted it. The issue is that this costs money, brings the hassle of doing so and allows those who feel adversely affected by the site to have a voice. Here I believe the club could act as a true club and take on the hassle and probably the cost to help owners get that permission to grow in pitch numbers, developing the skills to take these applications through with the benefits of a professional approach.
This can be done without rocking the boat and risking placing our exemption certification anomaly at risk by having parliament revisit it.4 -
Whilst I think increasing the number of units to 8/10 would make CL's more viable financially I do take on board completely Ocsid's point about increasing scrutiny in terms of planning which may well be counter productive. It would only work if Government could be persuaded to adjust the regulations and the rules remain the same as they are now. I suspect it would not only involve the two clubs but also the NFU as I expect the later have a bit more clout?
David
1 -
"I'm guessing that the number of people that van over winter probably drops by half (only a guess so don't ask for backup) so there is no or little revenue generated during the period Nov to March."
Our usage during this period is 25% of that for the April to October period. On top of that average electric cost for the winter months is £3.25 per night compared to £1.50 for April to October.....and you have to deal with frozen pipes!
From a revenue point of view not really worth staying open during this period but we do have our regulars during the winter and it is nice to see them.
Alan
www.greenacrescl.co.uk (now with online booking)
1 -
Could it be , that's it's purely a lack of support from from ALL CC members that the numbers of cl's are less than in previous years .
Once again speculation dictates that it's all to do with the CC ! come on now , get real there must be several reasons that cl numbers decline & rise through out a season .
We all have our favourite sites /cl's & continue to use these at the expense of all the rest .😉 people are probably too set in their choice of sites used .
0 -
Caravanning has changed drastically in the time we have been touring, and to a greater extent, the get out there and get on with it spirit of adventure has aged with the membership, and Caravanning is now a comfortable, warm, easy alternative to what it used to be, hence why many members are able to cope with touring as they get increasingly older and dare I say more infirm. No problem with that, progress is good. But it leaves the more basic sites vulnerable, as members either need or choose to have more facilities. A lot of younger caravanners wouldn't dream of joining a Club, not their scene unless they have been brought up within it. Hence my suggestion for an alternative umbrella agency, perhaps capable of fighting for slightly larger sites, say 10/12 pitches, that might just deliver a better return for new owners. Leave CLs as they are, within CC, as clearly 5 van maximum sites are popular for that very reason. Just me pondering aloud, but food for thought.
2 -
I dont understand the reluctance to at least explore the possibility of increased size with the relevant authorities. The details on size, access etc could be thrashed out later. We know the Government is keen to relax planning rules and surely a system that is 50+ years old could do with a revisit.
3 -
We aren't reluctant for it to happen, but the small five van CL sites are absolute gems, especially if you get one to yourself! So let another agency offer an alternative, slightly bigger sites, not tied into all other services offered by Clubs, that you have to pay membership for, regardless of whether or not you use them! It really is a golden opportunity for a group of like minded entrepreneurs to investigate, lobby parliament. An arm of the NFU could do it easily, (and there are enough MP members also in NFU to make it work!) They already promote the Farmstay Scheme on behalf of members.
6 -
Fisherman,this subject has been discussed at length in previous posts and the CC have made their reasons for not pursuing a change very clear. Many members are quite happy with the five van limit and do not want it changed. You are quite at liberty to choose a bigger site if you so wish and CL owners are quite at liberty to obtain planning consent if they want a bigger site, win, win for all as far as I can but you seem as though you will not be happy until there are no small CL's remaining.
7 -
However the point of the OP was surely to question why CL's are closing which will eventually suggest less choice. What we don't know is the reason for so many closures. Now it could be that its just an end of year blip where CL owners decide they won't offer the facility for next year. Alternatively it could be a sign that the network of CL's is shrinking. I think all people are doing is suggesting a few ideas on how we stop the number closing and hopefully encouraging more to open.
David
1 -
CLs are closing because the great mass of Caravan and Motorhome owners don't want them. One group wants fully equipped campsites, the other group wants locations with access to towns and tourist attractions. Small rural campsites - even with a limit of 50 rather than 5 - are closing all over France. Increasing the limit will make little difference if they are not what the mass of tourists want.
A vociferous minority on here will continue to proclaim their undying love for CLs, but closures will continue. CLs are a quaint British, members only, anomaly which have outlived their time.
3 -
Sadly, I think you may be right but, like Fisherman, I'm unlikely to be around to see it.
0 -
Having read threads on other forums it appears that the younger caravanners with children want sites with full amenities to keep the kids occupied, not basic sites where they might have to entertain their own kids or god forbid actually taking them out exploring the countryside or even rock pooling. One I read this morning actually said it didn't seem right for their 2 year old to be out in the cold while they were inside a nice warm van.
1 -
As a CL Owner and Member I would like to add my thoughts on this subject.
Firstly why are CL's leaving the Club, and I think there are two main reasons which are folks who are retiring as they are in a position that they maybe need to invest more in their site such as Hard Standings and maybe electricity in order to take the modern motorhomes or caravans and have a reasonable number of bookings or perhaps are not computer literate to keep up with the pace of events taking place.
The next group are those who want to dip their toes in the water to see if there is a market for a commercial site in an area, and what better a place can you start by becoming a CL. Get yourself known see how busy you are and if it is a success then go off on your own, after all you have customers who know you and if you leave just prior to the new Handbook being presented then you have the bonus of 2 years free advertising in the book.
David www.perthshirecl.co.uk
2 -
Having a bit of a job getting my post on here, but would like to add that as we are restricted to Club members only, our only source of advertising is the Club Magazine and with only 3 CL's being mentioned each month therefore if there are 2300 CL's it will take over 63 years for everybody to get a mention ( providing no more recruitment takes place ! ). I would have hoped our membership of the Club was worth a little bit more than that in order to promote our business / hobby and keep members happy, and when you compare this with the mention club sites get each month, there is no comparison.
David www.perthshirecl.co.uk
13 -
Yes, EBJ, I've just done a quick check through the last site directory, where I mark off lost and add new site each month, and there's been about 95 new CL and we've lost about 200 in the last 2 years.
1 -
Why can't you accept that some people only need a flattish pitch, water and, for us anyway, EHU? We do like H/S during the winter months but have no problem using grass pitches at other times.
You asked for an opinion as to why the number of CL's is dwindling and I gave my thoughts, if you don't like what people may say then don't ask and please get off your high horse
Many, maybe most people would have stayed in a hotel of some sort and probably travelled abroad so you may be in the minority who knows but I still say that the way people holiday nowadays has changed., Perhaps when you were younger a tent in a field or maybe a holiday camp were the de-rigeur but now its not its all inclusive holidays, decent hotels with hot and cold running water etc.
2 -
MT, dont entirely disagree with you, but not everyone likes Plane/hotel type holidays abroad, doesnt mean we havnt done them,we have. We now prefer discovering far flung parts of the UK with our dog, in Some areas a CL is all thats anywhere near,and legal.
Some of our most memorable holidays have been on a CL, one particular springs to mind, near Cape Wrath. Hamnavoe . Long may they exist !
Holidays are about memories that doesnt always mean luxury.
4 -
I seem to remember the question of how many nights I had spent on CLs and how many on club sites in a survey I completed for the club some years ago. I suspect that those of us who use CLs are in the minority of members and that is why we don't see much about them in the magazine.
Certainly if they didn't exist I wouldn't be a member of the club.
9 -
im glad to say i like vanning at all types of venues.....from far flung sites with all the trimmings (pools, bars, restaurants) to a field with a tap....
sites, CLs, THS sites, all suit at that particular time....
re: the 'demise' of CL numbers, im sure there is an element of truth in what Michael says, in that folk might be moving towards more 'upmarket' van breaks...and those posh trips abroad....
however, the supporters of the cl type of stay are very loyal to the cause and are doing their best (with their usage) to keep them viable.
as i said, we do use them, but not exclusively as some do, we mix and match but enjoy our cl stays as much as the others.
my own view is that (struggling) CL owners should try and keep costs down and (to me) this isnt building shower blocks and the like, ot might lead to too big a shift in price, and even the cl diehards want value fpr money.
so...leave it to the big boys....who can afford it...
2 -
We too mix and match depending on the area we are visiting and available sites. Like you say BB a lot of people don't just want a tap in a field any more but some thing more, weather that be EHU, toilet, shower etc. or even entertainment for themselves or children.
We had a discussion last night, my son is looking to book a summer holiday and looked at Spain, Forest Holidays and Centre Parc's (they do not have a caravan or MH) for them and their kids aged 14 months and nearly 4. Spain was a little expensive, Forest holidays have nothing to do if its inclement weather but Centre Parc's have it all, plenty to do outside if nice, indoor activities and swimming pools.
So using the same analogy to someone who uses a caravan or MH they may want more to do than just sight seeing especially if its wet.
0 -
I agree its all horses for courses, one mans meat etc. But a lot of people do want a hotel with all inclusive and maybe more important some sun
We to have had some great holidays in the van on all types of sites and locations as well as hiring chalets, hotel holidays etc.
0 -
Michael, you have a point....
we took our children their partners and our granddaughter to CP last year, and they all loved it.
we will ne going back this year and taking my inlaws, so four generations being able to find things to do, even in a british summer
0 -
You asked for an opinion as to why the number of CL's is dwindling and I gave my thoughts, if you don't like what people may say then don't ask and please get off your high horse
MT, I am certainly not on a high horse. I too use club and commercial sites. What I asked was what gave you the right to say that everyone used hotels & went abroad, when it's blatantly obvious that some of don't? See Rayj's post above.
0 -
Here is a thought. Brue has just posted a story about Stourhead and mentioned the CL there. If more people who use CL's were to contribute stories of their trips and also add a selection of photographs that might well be a good way of promoting the use of CL's.
David
0 -
The CC customer base have a choice of an all singing all dancing CC site. OR a C/Location.. There used to be a clear definition between the two. As one who uses CL's as a first choice, I have witnessed a trend for CL owners to be expected to provide all the Bling we would normally find on a CC Campsite. This puts the CL owner under pressure to clean and maintain unnecessary showers and public lavatories, spend money on installing hard standing and provide limited warden facilities..
A long way from a proper CL where all that is required is a Water Tap, disposal for grey and black waste and an Electric bollard.
Perhaps this is why land owners are giving up on running a CL as a small part of their income.
Cheers...................K
4
