Coachbuilt to Van Conversion
Comments
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Tammygirl
Interesting thoughts. I don't see us going back to a caravan. We did it for 30 years and the reasons for changing from that to a motorhome are still valid. I don't think I would want to go back to towing and the associated hassle that personally I attached to caravanning immediately before we changed to a motorhome. Margaret is of the same view as well. I am not so keen on seclusion, preferring to be near to habitation. This is for various reasons, not least that it allows us to operate without moving the motorhome off site. Also I can no longer walk the long distances I once could so prefer to have places where the shops and towns are within easy reach. We don't mind public transport and often found it to be quite entertaining!!!
I am not totally convinced a PVC is the answer as like you I would be concerned about the available space and whether we would successfully adapt. There are smaller coachbuilt motorhome that we could go for but then I start to think that there is nothing particularly wrong with what we have and like everyone we have no idea how long we will be able to carry on motorhoming should we just carry on with what we have? Camping has been a big part of our life and taken us to some really wonderful places so we would be reluctant to give that up whilst we can still manage. Whether a smaller vehicle would help us extend that time it is difficult to decide. We will have a look when we go to the NEC and go from there.
David
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DK, I drove a slimmer (and shorter) A class coachbuilt round Portsmouth the other day and was truly amazed at the difference a 6.4m X 2.12m footpint van is to drive and park.
add in a shorter wheelbase than a PVC and the van took city roundabouts with total aplomb, with manoevring even better than the longer wheelbased PVCs.
considering that a van like this can still support the full features of a proper MH (2 huge beds, large garage, proper shower, decent kitchen storage etc) its a world away from a PVC in terms of living with it...
no sloping sides, no sliding door, but just as usable as transport once on site....
add in a double floor.......etc....
yes, im talking about a German van, but the smaller/slimmer concept is out there with UK vans, too.
TG mentions that a slimmer van might be useful...remember that your (and their) Bailey would be 2.49m wide, against the latest slimline width of 2.12m.....thats a huge 37cm difference (over a third of a metre) which makes piloting the slim type of van easy peasy...totally stress free.
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DK, I totally agree with you regards "nothing wrong with what we have" we have been round the houses with ours. We've looked at British vans and the German vans that BB speaks about and no doubt they are well made but again neither of us is that keen to own one. Neither do we like the new Bailey's, when it comes down to it we still like what we have, which is why 4 years on we have finally got round to having a roof satellite installed. We will be going to the Manchester show at the end of next week all being well, so no doubt we will have a good look around at what is on offer, however I don't think we would consider changing it for another 3 years or more now. Good luck with your mission.
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of course, not everyone wants a german van, but my point was that there are slimmer/shorter coachbuilts out there (from europe and the UK) which are far easier to drive and park, especially when coming from an extra wide van like the Bailey....most full sized vans are 2.27m-2.35m wide, the Bailey is another 14cm-22cm wider than 'full sized')
my test drive (on a motorway and through a city centre) has convinced me that, 'to a degree', smaller/slimmer (especially slimmer) makes the things that most full sized vans struggle with (parking, squeezing through traffic at pinch points etc) far less taxing.
yes.....'to a degree'....and (for me) that degree is to be able to have a coachbuilt (with taller, straighter sides) in a PVC footprint....
OH has always hankered after a smaller van (despite the plentiful room and storage we now have) but we felt that a PVC was just too small, despite being (pretty much) the same external dimesions.
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David, only just found this thread, i have done exactly that, downsized from a 7.6 metre Autotrail Savannah behind which i towed my Yaris car on an A-frame, anyway through health problems and reaching 70, I traded it in for a nearly new Autotrail V Line 600, we have not been dissapointed, its differant,very differant, the 600 has a very good sealed shower and you can seal off the rear as a dressing room, no ready made beds but i feel they are a waste of valuable space in a 6 metre van which is primarily for use in the UK in any weather.We also have a Labrador, who always comes with us, And yes we do manage. If you intend to tour mainly in europe then i suggest you look at continental van like the Globecar or a Rapido v33. However for the UK get a UK made van.(my opinion) have had some issues with the side windows of my van, but now resolved, thanks to a good dealer. Very pleased with the quality of our Autotrail 600 sport. Not so keen on the rear lounge SE versions, but thats down to personal taste. Good luck in your looking.
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Should add that the AT 600 sport has a double floor, largish(compared to some) water tanks,both heated, a 100w roof mounted solar panel and a second leisure battery, a replacement fibreglass roof with panoramic front skylight(same as our Savannah) the newer ones have an underslung re-fillable gas tank as well, only debateable feature is the 12v/230v only fridge, would have prefered a 3 way, but in all other respects it is perfect...for us, we all have differant needs and must haves. And there atr always compromises to be made. oh yes fitted outdoor chairs on rear door and loads of bits storage, however i had to fettle the main under settee to take our 2 duvalays, otherwise A1
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Rayjsj
Useful comments on the V-Line as that was one of the ranges I was going to look at. Would I be right in thinking the Tribute range as just a cut down version of the V-Line?
David
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David, yes Tribute is a cheaper range of PVC, sitting below the V-line SE...neither of which have the V-line's two main attibutes (IMHO)...
which are the replacement GRP roof panel (raises internal headroom and gives a much lighter front cab/lounge area) and the pseudo double floor (allowing pipework and electrics to be hidden, heated and protected).
for me, the original V-line range offers far more of what a downsizing MHer might be looking for, i looked pretty hard at one of these when changing the Bolero....
in the end, we went for something much different, but its a really good PVC and if i had to go down to a PVC, it would be on the list....
probably the rear fixed bed version.
good luck with the quest...
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Yes, David, cant speak of them,but did look as well, as at SEs no double floor though,on either, not many PVCs have a double floor, which was one of the attractions, all utilities are run inboard in the false floor, except the water, fresh and waste, and both those tanks are heated.so an ideal all weather van. We have used it in the depths and it works fine.
Main drawback is the price new, i think they are a bit overpriced, but because of the past window problems, they have not held their prices well, dealers dont like all of the warranty claims because of the windows. Might be a bargain around !!
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We went from caravans to a coachbuilt then an A Class back to a PVC which was sold four years ago.and now back to caravans.
The PVC was an Autosleeper Warwick which we owned for four years after an A Class. The reduction in living space was`nt too much of an issue though the bench seating was short in length, the reduced storage was mainly the wardrobe which was tiny. One of the biggest drawbacks was access in very wet weather rain/drips from the body soon wet the interior and we took to using the cab doors, also the cold which penetrated all round, caravans are from my experience better overall than motorhomes for keeping warm in cold weather. Driving a PVC is the best of all worlds, we went on roads in the Alpes etc that might be daunting in a large motorhome, parking can still be difficult due to overall length. If you like to keep your van in pristine condition a PVC is one of the best vehicles to achieve this partly due to size but its steel surface as per car. Overall I`d say they are the best to reach those out of the way places and roads but you do pay a price - living comfort
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Hi DK and all
I had my dream motorhome in 2008, an Autotrail Chieftain tag axle with a huge garage for my Harley and a tow car on a frame. We started working for the club in 2010 and found ourselves with a nice compound to park and get plumbed in. Two years of that saw some hefty repair bills due to not turning a wheel for eight months at a time, new wheel bearings, brake discs, abs unit, chassis welding, all on a four year old van, so, we bit the bullet and went for an Autocruise Rhythm, basic build quality but sturdy enough. For a time there were lots of conversations involving "move your legs" and "you're in the way" type thing but you soon learn. Only 3 small lockers each instead of the endless cavern of the beloved chieftain. Winter 2014 saw us on a site in Spain for four months happily plumbed in with a caravan porch awning on the side, plenty of space now we're used to it. It happily tows my twin axle caravan and as it's 3.5 tons it's happy to sit at the legal limit when solo.
We'll probably change it this year, and will look at the v line or the Autosleeper warwick xl which is a similar layout to ours.
You have to bear in mind that when comparing coachbuilts to pvc's that any coachbuilt however small or wherever made are susceptible to water ingress. pvc's only have a few holes in the roof of what is in essence a van, All coachbuilts have joins, I've just spent today helping a guy reseal the leaky roof on a three year old concord charisma, that's a big money german van!
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a good point....some brands which use a Peugeot base will allow a build on a Ducato if the customer wants an auto box...
obviously, Merc, Renault do PVC with auto boxes but the Ducato is obviously the most plentiful.....and a good auto box.....(robotized manual)....
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the Lunar Landstar is on a Merc chassis, is this front or rear wheel drive?
i thought the Merc Sprinter was rear wheel drive?
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I mentioned the Murvi Morello a while back. It can be had on the latest LWB Ford Transit base - in front, or rear, or even all wheel drive. It's all on their website.
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BB
Interesting you mentioned the Fiat autobox. I am used to driving automatic cars and a motorhome with an auto box could suit me and I wonder if there is anyone with experience of the Fiat Comfortmatic gearbox, good or bad?
David
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many on 'other' forums speak well of the Comfortmatic box...
the smaller/slimmer van i test drove recently was thus equipped.
the teach-in from the salesman 'seemed' quite complicated as there are many modes to the box, including slow/faster shifting, holding gears on decending hills, limiting the range of gears to be used etc, etc...
as it transpired, i just stuck it in 'drive' and it was fine.....
one thing ive read is that the change from first to second can be a bit tardy, which might be a bit disconcerting when pulling out on a roundabout for example.
to me, its a pretty good effort, reasonable smooth....[Deleted User User]'s van has one and was paying close attention to the driving progress when we were in his van recently...
just one thing to consider.....you guessed it....weight...
if running at 3.5t it may be a kg too far, but obviously depends on the van and the available (real) payload.
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David
We too drive an Auto Car (VW with DSG box) but also have the Fiat Conformatic on the MH. The VW is smooth as silk and fast however the Fiat is a robotised affair so the change from 1st to 2nd is a bit "lumpy" but once it is going it is fine and the changes between the higher gears is fairly smooth and un-noticable. MPG seems fine and it is much easier to drive without worrying about gear changes so you can concentrate on the road etc.
Dropping gears to overtake/go up hills is very good and even in manual it will not stall and drop down to first if you forget. The uphill button keeps it in lower gears for longer (a boon on Porlock Hill!!)
Main reason we chose it is so Mrs T could drive the MH and she too likes it.
Obviously there is a weight difference so has to be taken into account but we love it and would not have a manual.
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from the Fiat press release...
Uphill-Downhill Mode: gearshift logic managed by software to ensure the best ratio depending on road gradient;
Warm Up Mode: emission reduction strategy during cold starts;
Brake Assistance Mode: ratio reduction to support vehicle deceleration;
Kick Down Mode: reduction in the ratio following abrupt action on the accelerator pedal (for example, during overtaking);
Fast Off Detection: gearshift inhibition if the accelerator is released quickly.
ps, the weight penalty is 25kg over the manual version...
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DK, perhaps now is the time for a test drive of a 6.36m PVC to see if the slimmer feel actually makes a difference to you when driving.
showrooms are quiet now and you should be able to try one without too much hassle...the actual conversion shouldnt matter as you can have a considered look at layouts at the NEC.
my 40 min drive was a real eye opener. once this part of the 'change' is sold to you, its just a question of the layout.....and there are loads out there...and youll be able to browse at the NEC knowing this type of vehicle is (might be) for you.
however, if youre not convinced by the advantages on the road, its likely you wont be going to the NEC to look at smaller vans, so you might save yourself a trip....or not
good lick.
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I'd consider a short A-class, second hand. I'm on my third; two including the current one at 6m, the other at 6.3m. Get a double floor one and you have increased storage space although weight restrictions need to be considered. If you think second hand, then Peterborough's National Motorhome Show might be a better option than the NEC. There are pros and cons of A-class ownership so do your research if you want to consider one. For example, drop down beds can save you 1m in length but are not suitable for every couple.
I've a 2013 130bhp with Comfort-matic that's done just over 22,000 miles without a problem. It's slow off the mark in first gear which can make entering fast, busy roundabouts from a standing start an interesting and possibly frightening experience if you are nervous. It can get confused in the Pennines when the roads have sharp downhill and uphill stretches mixed with sharp bends. It sometimes chooses the right gear just too late and so it becomes the wrong gear. Fortunately, the Comfort-matic has a manual setting so I sometimes switch to manual. For routine UK driving, there are no other problems. It's a relaxing drive. Reversing on to our drive or driving on is much easier with the Comfort-matic. Around towns, the Comfort-matic chooses the gears well and makes it less stressful. Mine has an 'Up button' to help with hills and also Hill Start which is brilliant.
Two of my friends have the 150bhp engine with Comfort-matic and have similar experiences to me. They tour on the continent and report no issues.The only reason I wouldn't recommend the Comfort-matic is the cost. I'm not convinced it is worth it although if you have limited capability to change gear with a clutch, then it would be good value.
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i agree with Aspenshaw in that an A-class can give you a full sized double bed right up front over the cab seats and still leave access to the (front) lounge, with the kitchen and washroom in the rear....
ive long been a fan of the Hymer B544 @ 6.50m it has possibly the roomiest lounge around, plus great kitchen and washroom....
.as said, the bed in the cab isnt for everyone..but roomy lounging in a small van is certainly possible once the bed is out of the way.
of course the same applies to rear lounge vans, but not many have the ease of bed making of the drop down, where the bedding can also stay in place, freeing up storage for other things.....prehaps significant if coming down in size...
Pilote have their own (even smaller) take on the same layout with the G600L @ 5.99m, again a roomy one-box design...
A class beds are also really roomy, ours is 1.5m (almost 5') wide..
a used example of Frankia's version of the same design is at SMC and looks terrific value...and has the added advantage of a drop down ned that can be used longitudinally as singles by using pull out extensions..
all clever stuff, this space saving....
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Oh David - come back from the Dark Side ......
Remember those days of a well equipped 2 berth with a spacious bathroom and a luxurious shower, an awning to double the living space or zip out the sides for a sun awning, a motormover to pitch in exactly the right place - and best of all, a 2 litre Auto mid-sized 4x4 for all the sightseeing......
Was it really so bad?
Pabst
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I thought David had already said he was thinking of a PVC, AND wanted a habitation door on the UK kerb side ? I dont know of any A-class 6 metre or so vans, with a UK kerbside door (apart from a cab door) do You ?
If i am wrong I stand corrected?
If staying with a coachbuilt, he cant go far wrong with what he has already, a Bailey.
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Ray, yes David did mention a move to a PVC, but its fairly obvious from his post that he and Margaret have some reservations about downsizing that far, all in one go...
i, and Aspenshaw, have just added another option into the mix, to give David something else to consider, something that may have many of the advantages of a PVC with, perhaps, less of the drawbacks...
perhaps David might hive his view as to wether a smaller/slimmer coachbuilt is certainly off the agenda.
whilst i have given examples of continental vans, i also mentioned (at least twice) upthread that there are uk models that are of similar dimensions.
my own view is that a 6.4m x 2.12m coachbuilt can be as easy to drive and park as a similar sized PVC, due to its shorter wheelbase, something that gives PVCs a larger turning circle and thus more difficult parking.
downsizing can take many forms, i just added a little more choice into Davids dilema.
if i upset you (your post seemed a bit terse) i apologise, just trying to get all the options out there.....
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"Concorde" are making those such models !! Nearside door etc.1
