Poor behaviour.....Is it my fault???
Welll, I have to say that I think that I've done Alfie a dis-service.
He is now nine months old and up untill two weeks ago he was really doing very well..........However, he has now started really ignoring me when off lead in the fields....It takes me an age to brng him back, running away from him works to an extent, but
as soon as he runs back to me and I stop, he runs off again.....I have not lost my temper with him nor have I chastised him when I finally have him back and under control. At home and in the garden, he is as obedient and attentive as anyone could wish for.
When walking on lead he is the same, stopping and sitting at kerbsides and road junctions when I stop walking, without me having to tell him. He also understands my command of "Wait", which I use when he is on a long lead, he stops and sits while I catch up
with him.......I have used more praise than rewards lately, thinking that this would ensure that he returned every time hoping for a treat, giving him treats every second or third time he responded. I have not used our emergency recall out of fear that this
may also be ignored, It has worked in the past to keep him safe........
At first I wondered if his behaviour was maybe down to his crown jewel removal four weeks ago, he wasn't allowed off lead for ten days 'till his stitches were removed...... I've thrown that idea out and put his new poor behaviour down to me.........I thiink
that I've made the mistake of thinking that Alfie was trained more than he was, after all, he is still a pup really and as such, still needs positive encouragement constantly. With this in mind, I am now startting from scratch again with him, giving him plenty
of praise as well as rewards every time he does as I ask. I will not let him off lead untill I'm absolutely certain he will come back every time, as he used to. It's too dangerouse to do otherwise in my opinion, he may well run off into a road, even taking
other dogs with him, perish the thought. I have ordered a thirty metre training lead and will use this on our walks over fields and along bridle paths. Am I doing the right thing ? Any opinions would be read with interest and thanks.....
Comments
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BT, firstly it's not you ,Alfie is trying it on !! ,and he's been with you long enough to work out what he can get away with ,training is a constant curve , yes the training lead is a good thing
you will soon have him understanding you again
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You'll probably need a couple of years Brian, a nine month old dog is still very young. Use the lead and try again in a spaces where you wont lose him. He'll gradually get the message.
We have two dogs, a very obedient mongrel and a terrier who, when she picks up a scent is oblivious to any recalls, She is on a long lead nearly all the time now because she has also become deaf in her old age.
Hope all goes well.
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Agree with HD, don't think it's your fault Brian, Alfie is still a young dog and training is on going. We used a long training lead and found it worked well. Our Collie's recall is good, but if he spots a squirrel before we do, he chooses not to hear us.
Am
sure you are doing all the right things, hope it goes well.0 -
I think it's just a question of perseverance, Brian. Lizzie is our first dog and it took us absolutely ages to start with. She's still not good at some things, but I know that is down to us. The worst thing about her is that she has 'separation syndrome'.
We can't leave her at home alone, she gets very stressed and sweats so much from her paws that the bottom half of her legs can be soaking wet. I think it's partly the breed. She's good at coming back if she's off her lead, but even so, very rarely strays
far from our side.David
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don't be too hard on yourself, its a dog and furthermore its now a stroppy teenager (as someone earlier mentioned) ALL dogs are capable of none compliance given the right scenario. Try having a cocker even my so called trained gundog has moments of deafness
.my dog never disobeys a command said no man ever.
get out to him pop a lead on frog march him quietly but firmly back to were you gave the recall command, give the recall command again and give the lead a slight jerk, give the command again. Take the lead off but not before telling him to wait or stay whichever
your command is, back away from him five yards (if you can) then recall he should recall so give lots of praise and treat with food or his favourite toy. If he legs it when you take lead off get after him rinse and repeat.Ps
udo you have a release command that you use to tell him to go play if not get one, the dog must know he is only off lead playing because you let him.
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Brian - I am by no means an expert since Meg, our Cockapoo, is my first dog. However, what I will say is that in this last six months, I have noticed a dramatic change in her behaviour. She is just coming up to three and whilst she has been reasonably
well behaved, she was still 'having her moments'. She has been coming back on the whistle (most times!!) since she was about 4 months old - but there were other times when she was 'as mad as a box of frogs' - presumably the spaniel bit of her breeding! -
and I was getting so frustrated and blaming myself for not being able to exercise proper control. As I said - this last six months have seen a noticeable change in her behaviour and I would say that she obeys my commands for 99% of the time - whilst still
maintaining that playful behaviour. (I hate to see dogs that are 'over-trained' and have had all their spirit taken out of them). She knows that when I say "Meg - here" in a certain tone of voice - there is no room for argument and she comes back straightaway
and I am sure that given time, Alfie will develop in the same way.0 -
Keep going Brian it certainly not your faul. Alfie is now getting to an age where he is trying to push the boundaries. Just keep training him as you have done and he will come out the other side. Scooby our 2 year old Labradoodle is still full if mischief
and still pushes the boundaries. We still maintain our consistancy with her telling her what is not acceptible. She knows full well she is being naughty and she does it on purpose lol0 -
BT, it is you
. Not from any mistake but from Human nature. You are justifiably proud of Him, you took your eye of the ball. You thought
He was trained, He ain't. You never stop training a Dog, it's just that after a while it only takes reminders as opposed to full on training. It's in a Dogs nature to push the boundaries, with maturity you click, He will understand & accept the rules. I had
a Retriever who was the most intelligent Dog i've had. It took 2yrs solid training to get Her to act as I wanted. After that it was top ups, She was adorable. Good idea Mucker-back to basics. Don't take Him for granted
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Thank you all for your varied and most interesting replies. I have taken on board differing points from all of you, it's so reassuring to have different views that are positive and constructive without being patronising.....Again, to me, this is what CT
is all about.Yes, Alfie is now a stroppy teenager, what threw me was the fact that at home and in the garden his behaviour was, and still is, very good. I think this is where I've taken him for granted, I've accepted his good behaviour as beng normal and not rewarded
him for it, in doing so I've made myself less fun for him to be with, which has led to him looking elsewhere for his fun when out and off lead. This lack of reward has been corrected by me over the last two days... I now keep a bag of treats in my pocket all
the time and reward him constantly for his efforts. Mrs bt said to me that my attitude to Alfie over the last two days has changed back to how it was when he was a young pup. I thanked her for telling me, not realising how I had been taking Alfie for granted...
Alfie must have noticed that as well, hence his non response off lead.....That was my first lesson learnt, one I won't forget.....0 -
glad to hear your back on track. Remember that dogs learn in context so just because he does X in one place / situation does not mean he will do the same X in another. When training the retrieve for instance we have to first train it in the garden with a
dummy then in another location with the dummy then another etc etc before ultimately training the retrieve on cold game then warm game in different environment and situations again. Good luck I am sure all will be well as others have said behaviour once trained
must be continually practiced and maintained.0 -
I have my great pal, a 6 yr old rescue Westie terrier that I'm still training after 5 years. He has selective obedience and his brain in his nose. Off the lead on the South Downs and in woodland he's fine but insolently ignores all instructions in the garden.
We used a GPS tracker on his collar for a while which by using an iPhone we could see exactly where he was on an interactive map for peace of mind.
I started training him with small pieces of frankfurter but have managed to wean him onto tiny cheesey treats now, more as a habit-forming gesture than a real food treat.
With the offer of a treat he's anybody's, the tart!
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I have my great pal, a 6 yr old rescue Westie terrier that I'm still training after 5 years. He has selective obedience and his brain in his nose. Off the uulead on the South Downs and in woodland he's fine but insolently ignores all instructions in the garden.
We used a GPS tracker on his collar for a while which by using an iPhone we could see exactly where he was on an interactive map for peace of mind.
I started training him with small pieces of frankfurter but have managed to wean him onto tiny cheesey treats now, more as a habit-forming gesture than a real food treat.
With the offer of a treat he's anybody's, the tart!
Write your comments here...If anybody is using a GPS tracker to find out where their dog is. IMO their dog is not under control.
Until they have built up respect and taught the dog what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and at least the very basic recall command, IMO they should keep their dog on a lead for the dogs sake and the safety of other dogs and people.
Out of control dogs are a menace.
K
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I have to agree with kennine. If you need a tracker its way to far out. 20 yds at a push is my dogs limit
Count me in agreement with you both. At 20 yds Alfie is looking round for me to make sure I'm still with him. Well he did and will no doubt soon be back on track.....
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Alfie update......
After 5 days training on a 30metre lead Alfie was responding well to my recall and getting properly rewarded every time with his favourite treat. Indeed, I have carried reward treats around in my pocket constantly and rewarded every correct action by Alfie.
We have also used his tennis ball a lot more and he is really loving it. Previously he used to lose interest after a couple of "Fetches"He has done so well that on Saturday I decided to let him loose again in his first training field. He did well, we played ball and hide and seek, every time he returned to me I gave him praise and a treat. We met a couple of other dogs, Alfie said hello,
had a quiick play and then returned when asked, treated and praised every time. All going well I thought, as we neared the entrance gate Alfie ran off and out of the gate onto the cart track. U- oh I thought, I shouted "Alfie".....no response, then a voice
called back to me "he's ok", out of site now I tried again..."Alfie"....Then he came running back and sat in front of me, boy was I pleased, I made a great fuss of him and gave him a few treats... Fantastic!!!....It turned out that the dog he went to see was
his best friend Wendal who loves frolickiing about with him. We normally meet her two or three times a week. I chatted with Wendal's owner explaining Alfie's disobedience and what we have done to try and correct it, "well it seems to have worked " she said,
"thats why we haven't seen you for a while, Wendal's been looking for Alfie". Saying our good byes we made our way home.Today my daughter and three grandchildren dropped in to say hello. They asked to take Alfie for a walk,"ok" I said "but you must keep him in control and treat him every time he does as you tell him"......An hour and half later they returned, "Alfie's been
great" said my eldest grand daughter, "he's been off lead a lot and never ran off, we met a man with a big black dog, Alfie went to say hello, then came right back to us.....And yes we did treat him Grandad"......What more can I say???.....Pleased or what.....
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Nice one BT. We need to retrain ourselves on occasions as you proved
. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Dogs love repetition,
it grounds em & reassures them. You are building(not built yet) a supreme bond that will be there for His life, He will suffer just as much as you do when He can no longer see or smell you. You & He are forming a deep, giving friendship. It's a joy to read
your posts0 -
Our two dogs have both gone deaf in their old age, so a good tip is to make sure your dog sees hand signals when you do training. One of ours now responds to the hand signals although he can't hear us....but the other has to be on a long lead!
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Welcome to the world of the stroppy teenage Dog BT! It isn't you, all the dogs we have had have gone through this phase. We now have a chocolate Labrador whose brain at times remains on the shelf at home, despite coming up seven years old. Perennial teenager,
chocolate ones do have a reputation! Luckily he is a big soft lump, no aggression in him but that doesn't mean he gets away with things. We use the tone of our voice to indicate to him if he has done wrong, and make him do exactly as we want, making him sit
and give us his attention before letting him run free. Lots of praise when he does get things right of course. Conversely, our yellow Lab was gundog trained, all heel, sit, fetch, down until we got her. (Never been beating though, so what was the point?) Never
had a toy, other than a ball, never did much in way of interesting walks or swimming, never played with another dog. All these she has learned in the last three years, and now has a full and happy life. They have been good for each other!0 -
I'm sure no one will disagree with you, EJB, but it seems to me that only 'trained' humans are posting here and are helping each other achieve the right result. It's good to read.
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>>>do you have a release command that you use to tell him to go play if not get one, the dog must know he is only off lead playing because you let him.<<<
Spk, forgot to say thank you for the above tip.
I've used this with Alfie for the past week since you mentioned it, not having used one before, my word it does make a difference. Alfie now sits and stays after getting his treat, I smply say to him "go play" and he is off like a shot. He reminds me of the sheepdogs on one man and his dog going out for the Fetch, ' though obviously not as well trained (Alfie that is).....He also responds well to my comand of "this way", I used to point the direction I wanted him to go at the same time, but now I just nod my head left or right and he goes that way, even from a distance, he never fails to impress me, but as I've said before, I'm biased
Another strange thing is his release of his tennis ball when he brings it back, I don't have to say "leave" or "drop", I just say "sit" and he sits and sort of throws his ball at me, I have to laugh at himCould I just say a big thank you to all who contributed and showed me encouragement.
I hope that by me highlighting this problem, then others may have gained a little knowledge and confidence from the abundance of good advice offered, if in the same situation....
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Sadly untrained dogs tend to be owned by untrained humans.
So, train the human and it leads to an easy uncomplicated life!
Unfortunately humans are incredibly difficult to train
EJ, not if you start them early enough. Human Pups respond just as good to early consistent training
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>>>do you have a release command that you use to tell him to go play if not get one, the dog must know he is only off lead playing because you let him.<<<
Spk, forgot to say thank you for the above tip.
I've used this with Alfie for the past week since you mentioned it, not having used one before, my word it does make a difference. Alfie now sits and stays after getting his treat, I smply say to him "go play" and he is off like a shot. He reminds me of
the sheepdogs on one man and his dog going out for the Fetch, ' though obviously not as well trained (Alfie that is).....He also responds well to my comand of "this way", I used to point the direction I wanted him to go at the same time, but now I just nod
my head left or right and he goes that way, even from a distance, he never fails to impress me, but as I've said before, I'm biased Another
strange thing is his release of his tennis ball when he brings it back, I don't have to say "leave" or "drop", I just say "sit" and he sits and sort of throws his ball at me, I have to laugh at himCould I just say a big thank you to all who contributed and showed me encouragement.
I hope that by me highlighting this problem, then others may
have gained a little knowledge and confidence from the abundance of good advice offered, if in the same situation....
Write your comments here...
Brian, absolutely made up for you, its great when things cone together. If you want to save your back ling term and as you now have a sat present (bloody well done on that) you may wish to consider the dog holding the item until you take it, instead of bending
down. When dog sits with ball don't tke it straight awaytell dog "hold" and stroke his head with left hand then gently take the ball with a "give"0 -
Be wary BT, spk will have you beating soon
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So, Canine Pups, Human Pups & BT's can all be trained. . . .Excellent fun0 -
Sadly our dear Lucy, our Springer spaniel, is long gone. And to the people who say no dog is ever perfect in their behaviour they are wrong, she was. Maybe we were lucky, maybe it was the breed, possibly both. However, I did train her almost every day for
18 months and no she wasn't over trained, she was full of fun, even down to playing hide and seek with our kids, she would tuck herself away and sit very patiently until they found her. My best tip would be keep using the very long extendable lead. Even when
the dog returns well and you haven't used it for a while, put it on again for a bit and call the dog back a lot, with treats every time. This 're-enforces that they must always come straight back when called. Dear Lucy went very deaf in her old age but then
she always watched me almost all the time and responded straight away to hand signals. Never once did she not come back and I always trusted that she would. We have a cat now, can't train her,she always does just as she likes!0 -
I have trained my bitch daily for nearly two years and she is not perfect by any stretch but these things are comparable and as the saying goes you get the dog you trained for. Out of interest DEB did you ever work Lucy ??
working environment is a whole new ball game
on a first season for the dog at a shoot much whistling and obscenities can be heard and the usual "I cant understand it she is perfect at home" remarks. I believe the biggest test for any working dog is on the beating line this is were the faults really
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No we never worked her spk. She was terrified of loud bangs. That is one of the reasons that I trained her so much to return to me, I always wanted her to know I was her safe refuge, lthough if I ever though this could be a problem I wouldn't let her off
the lead. We took her to Bisley once as I used to target shoot there, after 30 mins we had to leave, one petrified dog. Would never take her for a walk or leave her for a second on firework night.0
