Dogs that can be dangerous
as most will be aware two people have died this week from injuries sustained by dogs and im sure you will join me in extending condolancies to their families, i have deliberately titled this thread this way because i believe that the dogs are only dangerous
if allowed to be sometimes "deliberately" others by pure chance,eg it makes a bid for freedom by chance,never the less any death that could have been prevented is one too many,and before the doggy people attack me, the question (debate) is should the law now
be tightened as to what type of dogs people are allowed to keep and penalties for owners of dogs that are not controlled properly as i believe most do
Comments
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Yes the law should be revisited. Plus the suitability of Humans should also be looked at, lifetime bans due to terminal stupidity should also be handed out to some. It's tragic, made worse by the fact it could be avoided.
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I have been a dog owner for many years. I would never leave my dog alone with a child. Dogs can react in strange ways to the actions of humans and other dogs. No matter how nice and friendly the dog is it can confuse some innocuous action with a threat.
Though classed as a domestic animal they are not human and on occasion will react instinctively. I love my dog but would not trust him 100% to behave in all circumstances.0 -
The two deaths this week are tragic, and almost 8000 people here in the UK needed hospital treatment for dog bites in the last twelve months.
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I have been a dog owner for many years. I would never leave my dog alone with a child. Dogs can react in strange ways to the actions of humans and other dogs. No matter how nice and friendly the dog is it can confuse some innocuous action with a threat.
Though classed as a domestic animal they are not human and on occasion will react instinctively. I love my dog but would not trust him 100% to behave in all circumstances.i can relate to what you say in my younger days our dog used to get bad tempered when it was very hot luckily never any serious incidents though
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It is definitely the Humans that need to be licenced somehow? This week has been tragic especially the 3 year old - I have rescued German Shepherds and others for over 30 years now and been very aware of the dangers. My current rescue is a GSD x Rottweiler that came from a house where 7 dogs had been abandonned. I nearly turned her down when I was told of her mix - but she is far more reliable than my neurotic Ladrador! Just don't break into my home or caravan to prove a point though!
I have never left a dog alone with young children either - my observations have been that it is the "noise/sound" that a baby or young child can make that sets a dog off on alert mode. And of course grabbing a dog's ears wouldn't help either. I had some lodgers here some years ago and their 3 yr old daughter grabbed my GSD in the groin area and twisted - her father had told her to stop as the dog wasn't happy - and from too far away to act I saw the dog mouth open turn round - straight past the child's face and just got hold of her arm to stop her. No mark nothing - but of course the child started yelling and father scooped her up and said "there there" - I got right in her face and said she was lucky to still have a nose! Lodgers left very soon after as I couldn't allow a child to torment the dog! Of course it would have been the dog's fault if push had come to shove - but that child deliberately hurt the dog! It is too easy to accidentally hurt a dog - I got bitten by my sister's English Setter - the softest thing you ever met - but I accidentally trod on her. Lucky for me some years ago baby sitting for a neighbour - I tripped over their rottweiler - and landed on top of him - he didn't turn a hair! A fortunate thing for me as he weighed in at 9 stone!
I hope the micro chipping will help with the dog problem but until people are given some "test" before they are allowed to keep almost any breed - there will continue to be tragedies.
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Everyone here has made a good common sense post. The current DDA does need revisiting. It was brought in as a knee jerk reaction after a spate of attacks and was rushed and not thought through properly. Let's hope for some sensible amendments with due emphasis
being put on owner regulation.0 -
The biggest problem the DDA will have is proving ownership of a dog to an owner , the majority of good dog owners will have their dog "chipped" and therefor tie ownership to an address ,a person who doesn't "chip" their dog would then disown it if the dog
was to cause a problem bay saying "its a friends dog" and if the dog was taken away it wouldn't be a problem to that personthere is no point changing legislation if it can not be policed properly and effectively
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That's true, Husky, and applies to all aspects of the law.
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That's true, Husky, and applies to all aspects of the law.
Write your comments here...Actually, its already law that ALL dogs have to be microchipped, BUT no-one is policing it. Any dog found without a chip, should immediately be confiscated and taken to the dog pound. I am a life long dog owner, and had a total
of 6 Labradors over the years, softest,friendliest dogs going, but i still wouldnt leave any of them alone with any child under 10.Dogs bred especially for their agression, need very special owners, who can control them and treat them correctly not just anyone who thinks they would like one as a weapon or a status symbol.
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I'm not a lover of dogs but in the interest of a ballanced view I would mention the dog in Baltimore that saved a baby's life this week during a house fire by lying on top of it to protect it from the flames. Baby has serious burns to one side only, and
dog is dead. It could have run out of the house.0 -
The biggest problem the DDA will have is proving ownership of a dog to an owner , the majority of good dog owners will have their dog "chipped" and therefor tie ownership to an address ,a person who doesn't "chip" their dog would then disown it if the dog
was to cause a problem bay saying "its a friends dog" and if the dog was taken away it wouldn't be a problem to that personthere is no point changing legislation if it can not be policed properly and effectively
The DDA is flawed because it is breed specific which is stupid – pitbulls and the like can be the nicest dogs and a dog of any breed can be aggressive if provoked.
I totally agree with the issue around accountability. Horses have to, by law, be microchipped and passported and yet there are thousands of horses owned by unscrupulous types that aren’t and nothing is done. Sometimes they are seized, taken into care,
wormed, chipped and castrated to be sold and then end up being bought back by the same people who have paid less than the cost of passporting for them. Why the law is unenforceable I don’t know- farmers all seem to comply with their requirements but with
'pets' it seems to be different.The types of dog owners who breed indiscriminately will continue to do so, and will not have them chipped or neutered. They just deny the dog is theirs, let it get taken and quickly get another one.
I can never agree that big dogs are more likely to bite than small ones – I have found the total opposite to be the case. Yes I did leave my children and my dogs in the same room as babies and young children, a risk maybe but my risk assessment said it
was a very small one – much less than taking them out in any car. My children were never allowed to mistreat the dogs – if the dogs went onto their beds they were not to be touched as this was their indicator that they had had enough. The dogs (big) generally
loved to be in the middle of the play and happily submitted to being dressed up and pushed around in wheelbarrows, jumped around the garden, went in the paddling pool and on the trampoline but could always walk away if they wanted.Some dogs will always be less trustworthy than others - our elderly dalmation as a child bit my brother because he forgot his key and climbed in through the window. We all agreed this wasnt the dogs fault but we were very aware that as he got older he got
less reliable - if we had friends over to play he was always kept separate as it wasnt worth the risk. This is about careful ownership and knowing your dog.0 -
If you think about responsible dog ownership it far outweighs the negative. Sadly, tragic events focus attention on the worst scenarios, terrible for all concerned.
Here's something else to ponder.
My friend's youngest daughter is registered blind, she is married to someone who is also blind. Not long ago Jasper bounced into their lives (have changed the name to protect his identity
) I can't tell you how much this rather happy lively guide dog has transformed their lives, (apart from taking the odd biscuit and covering them with dog hairs!)So although there are awful events that can happen with animals and the reminders shock us all. The good events are also happening.
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If you think about responsible dog ownership it far outweighs the negative. Sadly, tragic events focus attention on the worst scenarios, terrible for all concerned.
Here's something else to ponder.
My friend's youngest daughter is registered blind, she is married to someone who is also blind. Not long ago Jasper bounced into their lives (have changed the name to protect his identity
) I can't tell you how much this rather happy lively guide dog has transformed their lives, (apart from taking the odd biscuit and covering them with dog hairs!)So although there are awful events that can happen with animals and the reminders shock us all. The good events are also happening.
Write your comments here...Dogs in general do far more good than they do harm, most if not all of the dog attack cases boil down to a common denominator HUMAN stupidity, vanity or agression, sometimes all three traits.(this is the dog handler not the attacked person, although some can be very UNWISE, like breaking in through the window at night !)
Perhaps,like driving a car, potential dog owners should have to pass a proficiency test ?
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have to say that i agree with all the comments made on this thread and would like to think that heavier penalties should be the first port of call, it would not deter everybody i know as they simply would ignore or plead poverty to avoid paying fines,another
way could be for vetinarry surgeons and the rspca to be empowered to seize dogs not chipped, until proven ownership is established, not 100% i know but its a start0 -
Bring back the licence fee .... at £200, any good dog owner will pay the price. As long as the money is ploughed back into enforcing the act.
I bought my dog from an Animal Welfare centre and would certainly pay a £200 licence for what she gives in return.
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Point is, Dave, that those who are least responsible about ownership are exactly those who would just not buy a licence anyway. So most of that £200 would go back into policing and prosecuting them.
The answer is surely to make a ban on ownership mean exactly that, a life ban.
Edit - just re-read your post about the fee going back into enforcement. Still think there'd be too much wrigglevroom for those who don't or won't comply though.
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I think it’s a very complex situation. Any size or breed of dog has the potential to become aggressive. I don’t believe that it is necessarily down to ‘bad owners’ who don’t socialise or train their dogs.
We have had dogs for over 30 years as a couple (over 50 if you count family dogs) all big dogs, all very gentle and great with kids. Our dogs were all socialised and trained in the same way.
Our current (medium sized) dog was well socialised from when we got her at 8 weeks old. Before she had finished her initial vaccinations I used to carry her every day to meet children coming out of primary school. She was taken on caravan
trips as soon as she had completed her vaccinations. So she was a happy, friendly dog …… until our next door neighbour’s grandchild called her to our (wrought iron) gate …. then kicked her through the gate when she came! We had words with the neighbour,
who didn’t seem bothered at all!! We changed our gate to a solid wood gate but……..
She is now very wary of children, which is not down to ‘bad owners’ or bad training. It is down to a fear of small humans who may kick her! She is a lovely dog, but I would not trust her with children.0 -
I think most people are with you on the need to change the law, Fisherman, but I can't see that we're humanising dogs here.
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Yes Lynruby I have come across children like that and it makes my blood boil that parents allow it to happen. Mind you out of control dogs can upset others - my labrador was attacked by a friends dog recently and she has become quite withdrawn and growly
if other dogs get too close to her now.I don't think we are humanising them here - they are our very close companions but they are still canines.
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Lets stop humanising dogs.Any sign of aggression is dealt with instantly and in any doubt its destroyed. Likewise life ban on anyone who is remotely responsible for an aggressive dog. No second chance.Change the law if necessary.
im not a dog owner although having had one in the family many years ago and please correct me if im wrong, i dont believe dogs are aggresive but made aggressive by owners, the difference being , if you watch dogs and owners at training grounds they will
follow their masters commands (sheepdogs is a classic example) if you look at other dogs that come from hostile enviroments they will inevitably take a lead from the owner controversial? or fact? opinions may be divided over to you0 -
the vast majorities of dog owners are responsible and caring for their pets. There are a sizeable minority that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a dog. Unfortunately if you legislate you will penalise the good as well. Perhaps a £100/year license and
3rd party insurance my deter the bad!0 -
HD has a point, the Govt intro'd the chipping Dogs scam, then passed the policing of it to the local councils who've stated that they can't afford to police it, the police have stated they will get involved at the nasty end, not the seeking transgressor
bit. So basically it has no policing at all. If anyone is found with a Dog without a chip the owner has 5months to get one fitted before being fined(As of a few months ago) so it's just a money making lip service scam
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I guess microchipPing is useful for some occasions - identifying owner of lost dog or dealing with repeat offenders. If a dog is involved in a minor incident with another dog or person it won't be put down. However, if the owner doesn't take steps to ensure
the dog doesn't get into the same situation again the police would be able to confirm if it is a repeat offender And take appropriate action.I don't think any dog can be trusted in all events - children in particular are not predictable and although they will learn over time how to behave a dog may well react instinctively. The same can be said of humans but the repercussions tend not to be
so great as we have a wider range of tools at our disposal, which don't include enormous sharp teeth.0 -
In my opinion, domesticated animals are wild animals that retain their self preservation instinct and can revert to the wild state without warning. They can do so if frightened, surprised, hungry or unwell, all of which can make them defensive. The majority
of wild animals are not normally aggressive unless they are hunting for food or defending their family or territory.Until all humans recognise this and act accordingly, I am afraid attacks and injuries will continue. Left to fend for themselves most domestic animals would fare far better than their owners in a similar situation.
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