The small print on payloads
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Thanks BB, we may have to make some big compromises it seems, but we shall see, keep looking.
We have been out to the only Hymer dealer up here today and had a look, and thought that the Exsis i does feel narrow, though the cab space was good.
It was much more cramped "in the flesh" than it looked in the on-line photos. Not something we could contemplate living in for 3 months at a time. We may have to re-think our ideas.
We saw a smaller (shorter) model with twin beds and the shower room with the swing aside basin, it felt really cramped, very narrow space between kitchen and shower room.
It is of course a totally different layout from the 598, but the width is the same.
We asked several questions.....
can the 598 actually be fitted with air con afterwards.....answer....don't know but if it's not an option then no....but we don't know why.
weight of towbar.....no idea
what models will you get in for 2017.....no idea
how long to order something built to our spec.....6-8 months
how can we be sure the van we order will not be 5% over weight, and how could that happen.....no idea
They seemed to have little understanding of our need to keep below 3500kg, or that certain things like air con and a decent shower are non-negotiable. Kept suggesting the heavier models.
OH noticed that the sink was smallish, and there was no drainer, she asked where one was supposed to put the wet dishes, was there a loose drainer supplied.....no idea.
We measured the shower in the "swing aside basin" version, it was too small for regular use, and the way it worked, according to the salesman who demonstrated it, seemed a bit "tacky". Not what we had expected.So it seems that style of shower room must be ruled out.
We also asked about servicing and warranty work. Their policy is that if you did not buy from them then they are happy to service, but no way will they touch warranty work.
However, they took our details and are going to put some of our questions to Hymer this week, so we shall see.
We were not that surprised with the result of our visit, pretty much what we had expected from previous visits to them, but on the plus side, we did procure a Hymer brochure, so that is helpful.
OH has made a list of all the Hymer dealers, so we aim to visit as many as possible on our holiday in September.
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the width of a van is always going to polarise perspective...
a wide van (Bailey or the spersized Hobbys etc) feel great inside, but will add weight and be more of a handful on the road.
slimmer vans feel more comfortable on the road but may seem too narrow i side at certain pinchpoints....
the van you looked at sounds like the 578 which we were interested in, but couldnt get past the washroom compromise.
just turning this whole conundrum on its head, i would ask to look at a B544, which is a one-box, open lounge version. only 6.5 mtr long, full width, large washroom in the rear (swingwall, i think, but a mile away from the one you saw....large drop down
bed in the cab (main bed) but the lounge is long enough to make twin singles or a large double.now i know you wanted a fixed bed, perhaps its worth having a look to see if you two could get into an A-class drop down.
they do come down low these days and perhaps with a small step, doable for you...
the reason i suggest this is that you will be saving length and weight, but (strange, i know) adding far more space for two, a real Tardis, seriously....but will also support four on the occasions you need this.
the extra fixed bed and separate washroom is moving your choice close to that 3500 limit....
again, another change of tack, go and see what a typical UK supplier has to offer.....these layouts will seem more familiar to you....AS are suggesting their latest Corinium (3 different bed layouts, 7.5m++) will work at 3500.....viewable at any Marquis
dealer, loads about...however, i have serious doubts about their viability with a quoted payload of 200-300 kg with no water....and you rightly say that 600kg is nearer the mark.perhaps a caravan is what you are really after and a change of towcar is the way forward.....?
the thing is, you're trying to fit the length/space and carrying capacity of a larger towcar and t/a caravan (13+ mtrs?) into a 7m single unit with its own weight restriction....
it was never going to be easy.....
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Thanks BB, yes it was the 578.
We saw a Chausson with the bed that comes down from the roof, it was displayed with the bed down so we had a go at seeing how that would work. It was a bit too high (OH is only 5 foot), but as you say, maybe with a step it might work. There was not a
lot of space either side of the bed on the Chausson.The payload on the B 544 is rather low however, only 370kg.
The "pinch point" on the 578 was right by the door, between the side of the seat and the ktchen unit, space between kitchen and bathroom was also minimal.
(BTW....what does one do for draining wet dishes?!)
Still keen to see an i 598, with the different layout there looks to be better width in the kitchen area. The air con may yet end up being the big compromise. These vans are better insulaed than our caravan, so may not get as hot inside.
We do have space on the drive for something a little longer, particularly if it was slim, so are also considering the Exsis-i 678 and 688 (both 720 long), especially to see the shower size, and the shorter 588.
The drawback with those is that the bathroom is opposite the kitchen so cannot be closed off to give a private area when one has additional bodies along.
I see these high bed models can also be ordered with lower beds, but as the wardrobes are under the beds, not sure how that would work? A smaller garage space would not bother me as we would not be carrying bikes. The notional payloads on those are 580,
570 and 600 kg respectively.Then we are looking to see an Exsis-t 598 and 688 with payloads of 660 and 640 kg, though of course without the drop down bed.
OH also has a long list of other makes and models that could be suitable, but now that we are much better informed on payloads, I reckon many of those would need to be ruled out.
She has looked at UK models, but decided that we might as well keep the caravan as go down that route. Going back to bed-making is not my preferred layout either,
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ah, the draining board thing.....
we have a round sink and i did a few measurements and a look on ebay and came up with this one, which fits and works perfectly...
i appreciate the cab bed issue for OH but i do still think its worth an experiment at a dealer....any van with one will do as a test....if its a potential goer the it really gets you away from the weight issue, notwithstanding what you noted re the B544 payload...also, no bed making....
there are other small A-classes with this one-box design....where the drop downs are far larger, more comfortable and easier to access than the mid van transverse ones...have a look at Pilote g650L which is a 544 clone but with larger shower and might have a larger payload...
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...or this fabulous Frankia....
but check payload and note the price is 'from.....'
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As stated the "option packs"which is basically a sales gimick that covers up the fact that a large payload will soon be eaten into if the "options" that most will think are really essentials, are taken up also putting a much higher price than the vehicle is first advertised at,unless as BB says they will "give" you some which will eat into their big profit margins which seem to be excesive on some Mv/ans
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....at least the 'option' is there (especially in some other markets) to keep the cost and weight down a bit...
in the uk you might get an (apparently) well specced van that, unfortunately cant be opertsted at its 'headline' payload....see AS for a good example.
...oh, and their (virtually essential) 4000kg chassis upgrade is a cool £4k
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Next question....awnings.
We would want a wind-out Fiamma or similar, how are they fixed in place?
Have seen some MHs using more conventional awnings too, but with no awning rail, how is this done?
Some brands seem to come with a "built-in" wind-out, but not Hymer.
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Well the way most are fitted is on brackets that are bolted either on the side or on the roof curve,but if you read DSBs post on his new bailey caravan the brackets are bonded to the van with the new "glues" as in the construction of boats and aeroplanes,which then means no holes in body, and if needed fiamma or thule awnings can have sides and front zipped in,
ps also a wind out awning is normally allowed on non awning pitches if you do not also have a car
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I think i have just said that, and did i mention any manufacturer?
Dont get so paranoid
hardly paranoid, i just thought you said these options packs were 'sales gimmicks'?....No?
i just mentioned AS as this is about four times the cost of other manufacturers to run on the 'heavy' Fiat chassis....
...and there is no doubt that their headline 'available on 3500kg' is a 'sales gimmick'.....more likely a trades description issue as it virtually cant be done with actual people on board
Kjell, our awning has a number of brackets that are glued to the upper curved profile of the van and the awning is then bolted on to these.....
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You can "wriggle" all you want but they are there to try to justify a lower price ,that as they expect is usually unachievable if you want a vehicle that has got the comforts most expect ,no matter who makes them so they are just "gimmicks"
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You can "wriggle" all you want but they are there to try to justify a lower price ,that as they expect is usually unachievable if you want a vehicle that has got the comforts most expect ,no matter who makes them so they are just "gimmicks"
Why would i need to 'wriggle' (as you quaintly put it) asi dont manufacture or sell Motorhomes....
i just give my opinion, the same as you.....surely?
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Well the way most are fitted is on brackets that are bolted either on the side or on the roof curve,but if you read DSBs post on his new bailey caravan the brackets are bonded to the van with the new "glues" as in the construction of boats and aeroplanes,which
then means no holes in body, and if needed fiamma or thule awnings can have sides and front zipped in,ps also a wind out awning is normally allowed on non awning pitches if you do not also have a car
Yes, aware of how the wind-outs can be used on non-awning pitches.
We have a Fiamma Zip on the caravan at present, with both sides and front, but would not bother with other than the roof on a MH.
Over there" we find we rarely use the sides/front these days, and would be even less likely to do so when moving on more frequently.
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Hi KjellNN
It is a real problem I feel trying to get exactly what you want. My dealer at CamperUK, Lincoln, has started stocking a new lower budget Hymer group van in their collection, a Carado. I think they are basically the same as the rest of the Hymer group
vans but at a lower price, presumably due to less content and more options? I was quite impressed at looking at the 3 available to see in the showroom as I felt the kitchens were more like the fuller UK vans than the traditional continental ones. We still
cannot find a single Continental van that meets our desires though so any change would require compromises. Regards, Roy0 -
We're on our second Hymer. Our previous one was the B544 and it was a lovely van. Shame it grew in length and width and put on weight. There are pros and cons with drop down beds and A-classes. We're on our third but if length wasn't an issue for us, I'd prefer a standard cab with fixed beds. Drop down beds in A-classes require the front seats to be folded, possibly the steeering wheel height adjusted, and some with electric motors cannot store pillows [motors think the pillows are children being crushed]. Windscreen on the A-classes really do give a good view of the road.
New Hymers in the UK come with an oven. We're on our third German van and whilst kitchen space is less than some UK models, it's never been an issue and I'd rather have a van that was well screwed together and didn't leak than a palatial kitchen.
We have two draining boards. One is a mat from Lakeland which can double as an anti-rattle device under the hob lid. The other is a silicon drainer which sits on the glass hob.
There are very few Hymers left in the country. Some of next year's production has already been sold. Hymer prices this year were low [or vans better specced] than before because of the exchange rate. Expect a jump for 2017 models with the new Fiat base and the worsening exchange rate [when you order a Hymer the price is fixed].
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"We're on our second Hymer. Our previous one was the B544 and it was a lovely van. Shame it grew in length and width and put on weight...."
despite the manufacturers' declared intent to reduce weight and produce lighter vans, they somehow seem to grow....
i think Hymer missed a trick by not producing an Exsis-i (slimmer, lighter, cheaper) version of the B544....I'd have had one in a trice.....however i guess they were concerned that it would take sales away from the far more profitable B544, which actually
became a 'Premium Line' model last year, which means (guess what?).....more weight, more cost, making it far less attractive on 3500kg.incidently, i did have a look at the website yesterday and couldnt see the B544 anywhere. it was (pretty much) only for the uk market, but sales were so good they kept it going for us...
perhaps a similar layout will appear in the new (slimmer, lighter, bit still expensive) Dynamic Line range.
waiting for Highbridge to het theirs in stock so that we can cycle over and check them out....
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We have found an example of the Exsis-i 598 in stock at Travelworld near Telford. The spec/packs/upgrades may not be exactly what we would choose, but if we get there before they sell it, we can at least see the model and decide whether it would actually
fit the bill.I think cost will be the next discussion, once we find out roughly how much that would be. Do we actually want to spend that much on a vehicle, or should we really be lowering our sights? Is it a sensible step at our age!
We do have several other brands on our list to look at, Carado is one of them, so it is good to hear that they are worth considering.
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Hi KjellNN
It is a real problem I feel trying to get exactly what you want. My dealer at CamperUK, Lincoln, has started stocking a new lower budget Hymer group van in their collection, a Carado. I think they are basically the same as the rest of the Hymer group
vans but at a lower price, presumably due to less content and more options? I was quite impressed at looking at the 3 available to see in the showroom as I felt the kitchens were more like the fuller UK vans than the traditional continental ones. We still
cannot find a single Continental van that meets our desires though so any change would require compromises. Regards, RoyRoy, with a zillion new layouts on the market, what is it that doesnt currently fit your criteria.....?
yes, in general, conti vans place their emphasis on different things to the uk.....build quality, large comfortable beds, big fridge/freezers, huge internal and external storage with appropriate external access....
this generally comes at the expense of lounges (sometimes functional over comfortable....), kitchens that have smaller hobs, compromised ovens (but huge storage) and generally smaller washrooms....
but these differences merely reflect the markets they are being sold in where folk live, cook and eat outside....needing on.y a large comfy permanent bed at the end of a hard day enjoying themselves.
our poorer weather means larger lounges to look out at the rain, a larger oven for our roast dinner (no winter salads, here) and a large washroom to change in as its too wet to get to the shower block...
in the uk, the conti manufacturers are really upping their game with many brands offering full kitchens with ovens as std or options. they see the uk market as worth the effort and (as in the Carado brand, you mention) taking the foght to the uk even at
the budget end of the market.....Adria, Knaus and others now have a budget brand in the UK....not to mention Benimar...back from the dead (recession) working with Marquis Group and now (after 24 mths) now havea 5% share....theres a whole world of choice out there, believe me...
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We have found an example of the Exsis-i 598 in stock at Travelworld near Telford. The spec/packs/upgrades may not be exactly what we would choose, but if we get there before they sell it, we can at least see the model and decide whether it would actually
fit the bill.I think cost will be the next discussion, once we find out roughly how much that would be. Do we actually want to spend that much on a vehicle, or should we really be lowering our sights? Is it a sensible step at our age!
We do have several other brands on our list to look at, Carado is one of them, so it is good to hear that they are worth considering.
Spend the children's inheritance before it's too late.
From the comments you made about the Hymer dealer I presume its in Livingston.
Have you tried Scotmotorhomes in Perth or BC motorhomes in Ayr.
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DD came up here this afternoon, so we had a long chat, and she voiced her concerns.
She is worried about me driving a vehicle of this size, mentioned something about "squashing cyclists" !!! Worried about the visibility in the mirrors apparently.
Any comments anyone?
Having looked at the photos of the Exsis 598, she is wondering if it will have the space we are used to.
We pointed out to her that we realise there will not be the space afforded by our caravan, and that we have thought about how we will have to change a few things.
We then informed her about weights and licences, something she knew nothing about.
She is not sure whether she would want to drive such a vehicle, but is pretty sure that her husband would be "up for it".
( We are not basing our decision on the purchase on whether they would want to use it. )
We asked her opinion on whether we were too old to be doing this, apparently she does not think of us as old (even though we are!), so that is good.
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I'm surprised at the comment on 'squashing cyclists'. If you can manage your current rig, a MH should, theoretically, be a bit easier.
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Another question has come to mind.....
In UK we currently use our roof mounted TV aerial where possible, but the Hymer does not appear to have such a thing.....so how do we get TV in UK? Do we need to always use a sat dish?
I use an aerial on a pole and clamp it to the ladder at the rear
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Kjell, visibility in commercial vehicle door mirrors is far superior to that in cars. Depending on your layout, you may not have any visibility at all through the rear view mirror. It's the same for many a white van man.
I think you need to get out there and test drive something of the right size even if it's the wrong layout.
If I may be so bold as to say so, I think you have so many concerns that you need to do a lot more soul searching yet.
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Kjell, im really happy trying to anwer your technical/layout concerns and questions, but im starting to side with TW's post above....
im seeing thoughts that really are asking....how can i 'caravan' once ive blown £60k+ on a motorhome....
i dont see the 'embracing' of the differences that drives a purchaser towards a MH....
your concerns range from lack of space inside to a number of other design 'red lines' that would be doable but not at 3.5t
i second TW's recommendation to 'get out there' an give the 598 (or similar sized A-class) a drive....i actually did this in a 578, just to see what it was like as i hadnt driven an A-class before.....im not sure youll feel anything other than cramped in
a 'euro' lounge fronted by a 'normal' Fiat cab, even in a swivelled Roadliner....if one is going to operate at 3.5t, and with an island bed layout, and a seperate shower, and another two berths then something has got to give....and thats length....anything beyond the 7m youve seen in the Hymer just isnt achievable, IMHO....
the four berths is really an issue....a two berth with drop down bed or even long sofa singles or a pull together double would give you a larger lounge and perhaps the sort of bathroom youre after....
throw in a fixed double and youre adding two plus metres and half a tonne to the spec......
as i see those vans that are currently out there, (if ypure not going UK) then the 598 is a pretty good effort....
island bed, plus drop down double, separate shower and toilet which can divide off the van for guest usage, travel seats and belts for four, great kitchen storage, large fridge/freezer, double floor, fully winterised, wider A-class cab, great visibility,
decent payload at 3.5t, a smidge under 7m....WOW! Im off to the NEC.....
a seriously, lovely van that meets just about all the criteria..
..except one.....
are you a motorhomer?......
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Kjell, from the Hymer Exsis std equipment PDF...
Multimedia
Radio-/ TV provision incl. 12 V socket, surface speaker in rear bed room, radio and DVB-T antenna
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