FAO KjellNN
Would be interested to hear what made you decide to change.
OH had been looking longingly at them for a far few years but it was not possible while working as we both needed cars. The weekend he retired we were on our way to the ferry in Hull when we had a very bad snake with the van, combination of overtaking a
lorry, going down hill and under a flyover bridge. 30+ years of towing never had a wobble like that really thought we were goners. We carried on towing though for another 2 years, I was never very keen to tow myself but was happy enough to drive while abroad.
We kept on looking at motorhomes but couldn't find one with the layout that we liked at the price that we were happy to pay, then while on holiday in Wales we saw the Bailey motorhomes, they had just come on the market, we spend 4 hours at one dealers trying
out each model until we both agreed on the one we have now. We got in touch with the dealers in Dyce once back on site and pretty much did the deal there and then. Once we got it I took it out for a drive and feel happy driving it, drove it back from Stonehaven
once. We like the flexability of the M/H especially on overnighters, we do miss the car when on longer trips, but now we have the trike it helps. Haven't regretted buying the M/H but would be equally happy to go back to a caravan if we felt it to be right
to do so. Our biggest van was 7.4m with fixed single beds, but haven't missed the extra space as we still "live" in the same amount of space as the caravan. We didn't often use an awning so not having one wasn't a problem, in fact we rather like having the
canopy as it only takes a couple of minutes to put it out. We don't have any problems with weight as we have a huge payload with this van.
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Thanks. The snake does sound frightening, not something we have experienced, but I do prefer the stability of our current twin axle over our previous single axle.
I am not really sure why OH first started thinking about a MH, though she says it is partly because she finds the travelling while (I am) towing quite stressful, she is a bit of a worrier. She does drive, but has never towed this van, says it is too big.
We have also had quite a few problems with our current towcar and were considering replacing it soon, so this would be the ideal time to make a change.
We do see a lot of MHs on our travels abroad, so I think this is possibly where the idea came from. Stopping a short time seems much easier with a MH, and sightseeing as we go along would suit us as we never stay more than a few nights anywhere. We find
we do a lot of driving around when on a site, going out to visit various places, often retracing our route, whereas it would be much better just to move on a short distance every day or two.The multitude of Aires and Stellplatz in Europe sounds attractive, though I think you said you had not as yet tried any. Would not use them exclusively though, perhaps alternate them with full sites.
As you will remember i have had a lot of input from CTers, especially BB, on the question of weights, layout, best brands, but we have not yet been able to see any MHs "in the flesh". Did stop at Perthshire caravans 2 years back, but they had very little.
Had a look at the Baileys online, but they are very wide and we have limited width where it would have to be parked on the drive, I would still like to be able to open the garage door! A width of about 2.3m would be ideal, about the same as our caravan.
The lack of a car while away, especially in UK, is something that worries me. I am remembering how you said that moving a trailer with a car on it on site is tricky, but as we have the Smart, we do have that option.
Price is going to be a major worry as we would prefer to have a new, or fairly new MH, thinking new so we could order any extras we wanted such as automatic transmission. Although we could (just!) afford to spend around £60k + our current van, it would
not leave us with very much in reserve, and at my age I am just wondering if it is a sensible move. Also worrying about the cost of insurance.
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Firstly apology's for butting in , but we have just changed to a M/H after 20 years with a caravan and we have just had our first week away in it , and it was the best move we have made , we to had the worry of would we be able to park at the places we wanted
to visit but our fears were allayed ,all the places we went to we found parking , for us it has given us so much more freedom.again ,sorry if I have butted in
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It's a very personal choice, Kjell. We bought second hand and it is an auto - a lot of the Merc based Auto Sleepers are and the Merc is a 'proper' torque converter auto.
We previously had a Shogun as a tow car and the insurance premium for the MH was within a few £ of the Shogun if that helps. The only difference with insuring the MH is that not so many companies are willing to provide cover.
One final bit of advice - don't do it unless you're absolutely certain.
I've butted in as well!
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Feel free anyone, to butt in as much as you like, the more the better!
With the insurance, we would be retaining our current towcar, at least for a bit (we may decide to swap it for something smaller later), so would have no NCD to use on a MH, plus I am getting on a bit now so age might come into things.
If we find we really are keen on a MH we would need to look at the ongoing cost of insurance first. See whether we can shuffle things around to minimise costs if necessary.
Going to use our forthcoming 4 weeks away to visit as many dealers as we can find to see firstly how we feel about the space a MH would offer us, and check out what, on paper, we have identified as the best layout for us. Plus of course check out weights to see whether what we like is even possible at under 3500kg.
Once we have a preferred make and model (or even a shortlist of 2 or 3) we would see whether there were any automatics available second hand, it would certainly save a fair bit.
Do like the Mercs, but they do not seem to be so widely used by the MH builders, so more difficult to find.
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...... we to had the worry of would we be able to park at the places we wanted to visit but our fears were allayed ,all the places we went to we found parking , for us it has given us so much more freedom.
again ,sorry if I have butted in
Glad to hear that HD, I may indeed be worrying too much about parking. We would do a few trial trips before deciding whether we found it necessary to have a car with us.
We already have a Smart, so that option is available to us.
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Kjell, concerning insurance, whilst many companies require you to transfer your ncd, some will give you a partial credit for it even though you are keeping your car. Our first year insurance with Safeguard cost not much more than the caravan (less than £400)
and you get free European breakdown included. They were also not fussed about keeping the motorhome at a local farm with only modest security.0 -
Its not a decision to be made lightly but clearly you seem predeposed to the idea of changing. Buy some motorhome magazines over a few months and get a feel for what models are out there. What helped us was we made was to visit the NEC, a bit easier for us from where we live. There you can inspect all the models in one place, although it would be sensible to have narrowed down your choice a bit otherwise it will be a very long day!!!
David
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Befroe going to the NEC make a list of what you (think) you want i.e. fixed bed, seperate bedromm/area, layout, kitchen, storage, other features etc. Then bear this in mind when looking but be a bit flexible as you may not know exactly what you want till
you see it. Have a rough budget in mind so you can immediately ignore the ones out of the price range to save time.We sort of saw teh van we wanted as it was the first one we went into just by chance but we went round the rest of them just to make sure. We immediately discounted UK makes for various reasons so concentrated on the foreign ones and narrowed our choice
from there. We did not buy at the show but it made it easy to look at all the makes in one place. If you are buying at the show then take 2 days first day look at all you can but its tiring so be careful. Second day go to your short listed models and make
a choice then try and negotiate your best deal, there will be special offers for ordering at the show as you may well know.Lastly the dealer, there may be more local dealers to you than some so remember this for warranty work i.e. there are only 2 knaus delaers in UK one in Nottingham one in Portsmouth so choose the one closer to you to make life easier later on.
I know some of this is sucking eggs but hopefully it wil help, we changed this year and its the best thing we did, the ease to move from site to site and jsut stop for lunch etc. Mrs T though does get fed up moving everyday and would like to stay a few
days on one site when we ahve 2 weeks in October...0 -
kjell, this is going to be an ongoing process and information overload might end up being a downside.....there are a lot of vans, in many different flavours out there...
so, ill try and keep this bit short...
firstly, base vehicle....mercs are perceived as premium vehicles but this doesnt necessarily mean they are the 'best' MH chassis, certainly not according to many MH 'hacks'.....they reckon the Sevel (peugeot/ciroen/fiat) base is the best base out there...
typically Ducato based vans (the most popular) will outnumber mercs by many times to one. only a limited number of converters use mercs as it drives the price up substantially, so youd be looking at AS in the Uk and the top line ranges of continentals...hymer,
frankia etc.....even rapido and pilote run exclusively on Fiats now, i think.so new, mercs are dearer, second hand they are cheaper but much, much, rarer....so this would limit choice of layout and interior schemes etc...
agree with tw, the sprinter box is a good one, but Fiat's Comfortmatic is also praised...
secondly, width.....std MH with is 2.35m without mirrors....like a caravan....Bailey around 2.45m i think....more room inside but can be a handful on the road...slimmer vans (still can be of a 'decent' length) at around 2.12m (thats 35 cm less than a Bailey)
will be much easier to drive in everyday use, but there will be a (slight) compromise in living space. check out Hymer and Carthago for slimline versions that still have all the usual bells and whistles, again youll need to try one.....both on the road to
check the advantages and inside (lounging, sleeping' cooking, washing/showering) to understand the compromises.good luck.
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K, when we were looking and narrowed it down to a couple of vans I just logged in to the CC insurance page and filled the details in and got some quotes to give an idea of costs ,I to had no NCD as I wanted to keep the car ,I ended up insuring through the
CC and got 25% starting discount ...0 -
Thanks all, great tips.
We have booked a site to go the NEC in October, have allowed 2 full days. Tickets not yet ordered just in case our "pre-show" investigations put us right off.
Living in the north, a nearby dealer will be a major problem, as there are very few up here. Will probably have to be one in the north of England.
OH is drawing up a list of "requirements", though I think there may need to be a fair number of compromises.
Good to hear that insurance may well not be too much of a problem.
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Special thanks to BB for all the time he has spent giving advice on weights, widths, layouts and base vehicles.
OH is concentrating on the "nice bits" inside, and leaving the other stuff to me I think.
I have also been following the thread on whether it is best to trade in the caravan, yet another decision that has to be made. Will be interesting to see what price we might get for it.
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Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.
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Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.
Write your comments here...I am not sure its a choice as 90% of vans seem to be bilt on them. On a different point I have noticed there are not many Ducatos used by white van man for deliveries which is strange.
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The majority of m/vans have quite low mileages for the year,and an AS is /was a good product and their Merc based are top notch,very nice ride, compared to sevel based which tend to be "firm",and AS have their own service department,you find that Broadway
site is at times a showroom of AS vans waiting for service
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I've no wish to insult others' choices but all I can say is that we've found the torque converter auto Merc to be superior to our X250 Ducato in many ways. It's a smoother, quieter ride, a lower floor line which makes access easier, better brakes, and superb performance - it's not called a Sprinter for nothing. Above all, it's RWD giving better grip. It will also pull away without the hesitation the Ducato had and will reverse without trace of a judder - something the X250s were renowned for.
I realise many are happy with their Sevel based MHs but we can only speak as we find and I found the X250 to be truly awful.
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Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like
BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.Write your comments here...I am not sure its a choice as 90% of vans seem to be bilt on them. On a different point I have noticed there are not many Ducatos used by white van man for deliveries which is strange.
the answer to your question, Michael, is likely to be 'cost'....the Citroen Jumper and Peogeot Boxer are slightly cheaper than the Ducato....and White Van Man has no need for the Ducato's comfortmatic box....again, cost for the busines owner.
having said that, there must be deals on the Sprinter as many of our 'delivery' companies (ADP,Yodel, ParcelForce etc) use them round here...
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Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like
BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.i take your point re cost a few years down the line, but Kjell is looking at new or nearly new, so there will, undoubtedly, still be a premium.
one other thing about the Sprinter is that it is (relatively speaking) quite a bit narrower than the Ducato.
this is good in a PVC for driving, but it precudes the option of a transverse bed layout in a PVC (hence all transverse ones are Sevel, though Lunar are doing a longitudinal version) and, in coachbuilts, always makes the conversion seem 'overbodied' due
to the narrow rear track....most AS Merc coachbuilt units suffer from this....which makes them look like they are top heavy. the softer springing of the Merc will only accentuate this impression.i agree, Sevel (Fiat in particular) had an issue with clutches/gearboxes in the early versions of the X/250 model.....2007 and 2008.
subsequently, these issues were resolved (no cost to those affected) but, again, Kjell is looking for something way later than these, probably on the latest X/290 version, even if a year old.
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Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.
i take your point re cost a few years down the line, but Kjell is looking at new or nearly new, so there will, undoubtedly, still be a premium.
one other thing about the Sprinter is that it is (relatively speaking) quite a bit narrower than the Ducato.
this is good in a PVC for driving, but it precudes the option of a transverse bed layout in a PVC (hence all transverse ones are Sevel, though Lunar are doing a longitudinal version) and, in coachbuilts, always makes the conversion seem 'overbodied' due to the narrow rear track....most AS Merc coachbuilt units suffer from this....which makes them look like they are top heavy. the softer springing of the Merc will only accentuate this impression.
i agree, Sevel (Fiat in particular) had an issue with clutches/gearboxes in the early versions of the X/250 model.....2007 and 2008.
subsequently, these issues were resolved (no cost to those affected) but, again, Kjell is looking for something way later than these, probably on the latest X/290 version, even if a year old.
The option of a transverse rear bed can be a plus or minus depending on your viewpoint, BB, so is not necessarily of major concern to a buyer.
The Sprinter MHs are built on Sprinter chassis and have Sprinter suspension and brakes rather than bolted on Alko chassis with Alko suspension and brakes. This is the reason they are narrower on the rear track and the suspension isn't actually softer but is of a different design giving an improved ride.
I can't agree that the bodies look top heavy as that depends on the particular model. As with all MHs, those with large over cab protrusions inevitably look top heavy whereas the low profile versions can look quite streamlined.
I'm not arguing a case for or against here as it's all a matter of personal choice but I'm trying to explain why there are differences.
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the rear transverse bedded PVC is the most popular PVC layout in Europe by a mile...hence its domination by a vehicle that can sustain this. the current Sprinter is a collaboration with VAG and is a very close relative to the VW Craftor.
the lack of a lucrative slice of this massive market is one of the reasons that the new Craftor will be a VAG only affair.
hymer have actually released a transverse bedded PVC on a Sprinter which (i kid you not) adtually has a 'cuboid' section grafted onto the side for the occupants feet....an abomination.
re 'overbodied. i didnt mean too tall, nor with overcabs, i meant just the fact that the coachbuilt bodies (at the rear) are so much wider than the skinny track....they look a tad unstable, like overloaded bans, though obviously they arent.....are they?
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Just a quick butt in. Kjell, it might be possible to use your NCD for your M/H and insure your present car in your wifes name as she will probably qualify for a big starter discount with your present insurer and most insurers prefer woman drivers.
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the rear transverse bedded PVC is the most popular PVC layout in Europe by a mile...hence its domination by a vehicle that can sustain this. the current Sprinter is a collaboration with VAG and is a very close relative to the VW Craftor.
the lack of a lucrative slice of this massive market is one of the reasons that the new Craftor will be a VAG only affair.
hymer have actually released a transverse bedded PVC on a Sprinter which (i kid you not) adtually has a 'cuboid' section grafted onto the side for the occupants feet....an abomination.
re 'overbodied. i didnt mean too tall, nor with overcabs, i meant just the fact that the coachbuilt bodies (at the rear) are so much wider than the skinny track....they look a tad unstable, like overloaded bans, though obviously they arent.....are they?
They certainly aren't unstable, BB. Hug the road like good uns.
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Kj, when we moved from caravan to M/H we did give up the tow car, OH assumed he could use his NCB for the M/H but the company he first went with said it wasn't transferable, however they did give him a very good quote so he went with them, it was less than
he was paying for the caravan. He is now insured with SAGA again the best quote he was able to get. His NCB was however transferable to the trike we have so it didn't go to waste.0 -
Kjell, as AS are the main users of Mercs for UK built vans, a Marquis dealership is often a place you will find some.
It's true that a Merc based MH will be dearer than a Sevel based one but I don't think there's too much in it once you get to a few years old. Having had both, there's no way I would want a Sevel again but I know others, like
BB, are perfectly happy with their choice.Write your comments here...I am not sure its a choice as 90% of vans seem to be bilt on them. On a different point I have noticed there are not many Ducatos used by white van man for deliveries which is strange.
the answer to your question, Michael, is likely to be 'cost'....the Citroen Jumper and Peogeot Boxer are slightly cheaper than the Ducato....and White Van Man has no need for the Ducato's comfortmatic box....again, cost for the busines owner.
having said that, there must be deals on the Sprinter as many of our 'delivery' companies (ADP,Yodel, ParcelForce etc) use them round here...
Write your comments here...I was just thinking manual and thought it strange that 90% of MH are on Ducato Base but thee are not many actual Ducato vans used as delivery vehicles.
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MH owners, bearing in mind their demographic, may well want an auto option.....so no use converters using a Boxer or a Jumper....AS have to do a 'special' on a Ducato to provide an auto for a customer...
RE, WVM, its all about costs....the driver isnt the customer demanding an auto box, so operators will plump for the cheaper, but essentially the same, Boxer or Jumper...
the two sets of drivers (and vans) have different priorities...
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I had a snake over 30 years ago. Not at all pleasant. I was going round a cambered and sweeping right hand bend on a dual carriageway at about 55mph or less. Visibility was excellent. And then two lasses pulled out from a farm access (semember no visibility
problems and I assume they were busy gabbing)! They were two thirds across the lane in front of me and I started to hit the brakes when the driver realised what she had done and instead of hard acceleration - panicked and braked! I had no chance of stopping
and so let go of the brakes and steered the car violently right to avoid her and left to straighten up before the crash barrier. So the snake was totally to be expected. I kept my feet off all the pedals and held the wheel with my finger tips and the snake
slowly dissipated. Not nice at all.0 -
Kjell, I know cost can be prohibitive but have you thought of "hiring" a motor home prior to buying to give you some idea of what you would and would not need ?
Tammygirl, totally off topic (sorry folks) but what Trike do you have ?
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Yes, have thought about it, I think there is a place near Glasgow we could use, might do it if we are still undecided after looking around.
As long-time caravanners (since 1971) we have a pretty good idea of what our fixed requirements are, and where we can compromise.
Our non negotiables are auto transmission, fixed bed of some type, but must have easy access, large fridge, a good sized separate shower cubicle, and the ability (and payload) to fit air con, a towbar, and a wind out canopy.
Our wishes are to also have 4 belted seats, sleeping space for 4, and an oven of some type,but we may have to compromise there.
Weight is our main problem as I gave up my +3500kg licence at 70.
I may have to try and get it back!
OH still has hers......perhaps I can get her to drive!
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