Service points for motorhomes
Those who have taken their motorhome to France don't need to be told about the superb facilities available to motorhomes. The most important of these are the service points where you can top up with fresh water and dump the toilet cassette.
These service points take up very little room. For those that haven't seen one, this is an >>> example <<<These are available, not just on local aires, but in motorway service stations and garage forecourts. You pay, usuallly by card, for a fill up of water, paerhaps a couple of Euros. The toilet dump is usually free.
It would be great if these began appearing in the UK and perhaps it is something the Club could begin thinking about, maybe with a view to approaching councils to think about installing them. Obviously there is an initial cost but if they were close to public toilets, for example, it would just be a question of connecting to drainage, water and electricity.
We find that the biggest restriction on our touring in the UK is the lack of somewhere to dump the cassette. We rarely use sites because we don't need to, something that applies to many motorhomers. The provision of some sort of proper facility would end the need to creep into public toilets with the cassette disguised in an adapted rucksack, as we often have to do now. And before anyone says anything, no we don't use chemicals.
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Hmmm.....this sounds very similar to the recent thread/petition that councils should provide Aires at public expense for wealthy motorhomers...It didn't get very far....
Also you say that you rarely use sites (including Club sites presumably) but expect the club to lobby for facilities for non site users?
Good luck but I wouldn't hold your breath.....!!
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BD, are you really asking that CC should spend members' money in lobbying councils to provide facilities so that people like yourself need not bother to stay on sites? Sheesh!
Why creep around to empty your cassette when you can do it so much easier in a more socially acceptable manner by staying on a site where you will find facilities provided.
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Welcome back to the Ian we all know.
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Welcome to the forum, Blackdeath!
Ian, 4 green stars denotes not a noob
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It would be great if these began appearing in the UK and perhaps it is something the Club could begin thinking about, maybe with a view to approaching councils to think about installing them
Don't think UK councils will be encouraging wild camping anytime soon. Not because i'm anti MH but if planning consent was applied for a dumping station in my area think I would probably object as a few selfish people would abuse the system
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Where do you camp overnight then Blackdeath? Everywhere in the UK that I am aware of where a motorhome can legally camp has disposal facilities, very different to France. I believe there are hardly any places you can legally camp in the UK other than a site. Regards, Roy
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As wild camping, other than in certain areas in small tents, is not legal in the UK. I would have thought the use they would get would be minimal. The initial cost of such facilities would be fairly high and there would have to be a significant charge, even
for dumping. Lots of councils are closing public toilets because they cannot afford them. So to expect them to invest in something Iike this, unless it was linked to a chargable aire, is unrealistic.0 -
As wild camping, other than in certain areas in small tents, is not legal in the UK. I would have thought the use they would get would be minimal. The initial cost of such facilities would be fairly high and there would have to be a significant charge, even for dumping. Lots of councils are closing public toilets because they cannot afford them. So to expect them to invest in something Iike this, unless it was linked to a chargable aire, is unrealistic.
Those of you suggesting that overnighting other than on sites is illegal in the UK are talking absolute rubbish I'm afraid. Motorhomes that are taxed and insured can overnight anywhere unless there is a specific legal prohibition. I can legally park on a street in the UK and, inless there are specific parking restrictions, do not commit an offence. These prohibitions either have to take the form of local parking regulations, the details of which have to be clearly displayed at the entrance to the car park or area in question, or a Traffic Regulation Order. If the latter is used then notices have to be displayed at the specific place to which they apply stating the details and the number of the TRO.
Other than that it is perfectly legal to overnight anywhere in England and Wales. If you don't believe that is the case then perhaps you would like to quote the specific law that prohibits it.Common law states that unless an action is specifically prohibited, than it is deemed to be legal.
In Scotland the concept of Wild Camping is written into legislation. I spent two weeks there last September and did not stay on a site once.
I have to say that some of the responses show a certain bias against motorhomers in the club. We pay our subscriptions at the same levels as caravanners and have the right to ask that the Club represents our interests as well.
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Hmmm.....this sounds very similar to the recent thread/petition that councils should provide Aires at public expense for wealthy motorhomers...It didn't get very far....
Also you say that you rarely use sites (including Club sites presumably) but expect the club to lobby for facilities for non site users?
Good luck but I wouldn't hold your breath.....!!
Why do you assume motorhomers are wealthy? I've seen caravan and Range Rover combinations that cost three times whatI paid for my motorhome
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"I have to say that some of the responses show a certain bias against motorhomers in the club. We pay our subscriptions at the same levels as caravanners and have the right to ask that the Club represents our interests as well."
BD, I am totally against your proposal that CC should use funds lobbying councils and also against councils using tax payers money in that way. I accept it is your choice to holiday in the way you do even though I, personally, find the notion abhorrent.
For the record, I am a motorhomer.0 -
The Law
"Where is it ok to wild camp?".
This is the most common question asked, and the qualifying phrase implied in the question is "without express permission".
- Scotland: the general right to wild camp is established in law along with the right of open access, and
is allowed provided you keep well away from the curtilage of any dwellings and roads. - England and Wales: For most upland and countryside areas there are two answers:
the lawful one which is "nowhere" and the practical real one which is "almost anywhere", see below.
The law seems rather clear, in Scotland it is OK as long as you keep well away from roads, difficult in a motorhome. In England and Wales as far as the law is concerned nowhere in countryside areas. I could not find any legislation relating to urban
areas.0 - Scotland: the general right to wild camp is established in law along with the right of open access, and
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For Scotland see www.outdooraccess-scotland.com only tents are permitted for wild camping and must leave "no footprint."
This comes under the Scottish Land reform Act and Access Code.
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The term 'Wild Camping' in Scotland is actually refering to tents, not motorhomes/caravans.
The access code says
Access rights extend to wild camping. This type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals and by keeping well away from buildings, roads or historic structures. Take extra care to avoid disturbing deer stalking or grouse shooting. If you wish to camp close to a house or building, seek the owner's permission. Leave no trace by:
- taking away all your litter
- removing all traces of your tent pitch and of any open fire (follow the guidance for lighting fires)
- not causing any pollution.
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I would agree, although for reasons only known to themselves, they do not specifically prohibit caravans and motorhomes, which I would have thought the obvious thing to do. However, when you read the legislation it is clearly geared to lightweight back packing,
not more sophisticated forms of camping.0 -
Steve, I think we are quite tolerant up here, the law says one thing but providing that you don't cause problems and don't out stay your welcome most areas will turn a blind eye. There are some places that will not allow you to night halt but others will.
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A few years back a CL owner told me that the Northumbria police were fairly hot on overnighting in laybys which would suggest that "wild camping" at the roadside is not legal.
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A few years back a CL owner told me that the Northumbria police were fairly hot on overnighting in laybys which would suggest that "wild camping" at the roadside is not legal.
That's an interesting comment and I'm sure its correct. . There is no doubt that police officers have from time to time, tried to move people on from laybys. However, I have yet to see any specific law that prohibits sleeping in a layby that is not covered
by a specific Traffic Regulation Order. If anyone can point me at such a law I would be grateful.In any case, how many times have you passed an HGV parked in a layby with all the curtains drawn. That appears to be perfectly legal and, indeed, any police officer trying to move them on could be accused of forcing them to drive when they were out of time.
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Steve, I think we are quite tolerant up here, the law says one thing but providing that you don't cause problems and don't out stay your welcome most areas will turn a blind eye. There are some places that will not allow you to night halt but others will.
Scotland has a very civilised approach. I have never been moved on in Scotland from a layby or anywhere else.
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A few years back a CL owner told me that the Northumbria police were fairly hot on overnighting in laybys which would suggest that "wild camping" at the roadside is not legal.
That's an interesting comment and I'm sure its correct. . There is no doubt that police officers have from time to time, tried to move people on from laybys. However, I have yet to see any specific law that prohibits sleeping in a layby that is not covered
by a specific Traffic Regulation Order. If anyone can point me at such a law I would be grateful.In any case, how many times have you passed an HGV parked in a layby with all the curtains drawn. That appears to be perfectly legal and, indeed, any police officer trying to move them on could be accused of forcing them to drive when they were out of time.
I think HGV's are a differant kettle of fish, they are allowed to stop due to driver fatigue. I'm pretty sure that sleeping in a vehicle on a street isn't allowed.
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A very good website is WWW.motorhomeparking.co.uk lots of good infomation.
I belong to WildCamping.co.uk. They provide a download of places where members have succesfully parked overnight in the UK.
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Sleeping in a layby wouldn't be my idea of a van holiday, in fact I wouldn't be able to sleep at all. I think the C & CC system of providing quick stop facilities for motorhomers for a fee is ok.
I wouldn't sleep in a layby either. there are plenty of quiet places where you can park overnight wiothout causing a problem. I think the C&CC idea is great and cannot understand why the Club can't offer the same facility to members who just want to get
water and dump the cassette. I'd be happy to pay for the service and it would increase the club income.0 -
I haven't used this forum for some time because I became sick and tired of the pathetic software used. However, I have been alerted to this thread so have visited to correct inaccuracies and conflicting opinions in previous posts.
Firstly, it is not "perfectly legal to overnight anywhere in England and Wales".
a) As documented at http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/roads.htm, there is no national legislation preventing camping at the roadside (including lay-bys). However, to do so legally one must observe all the waiting and parking (including lighting) regulations summarised by Rules 238-252 of the Highway Code. That (lack of) legislation applies equally to motorhomes, caravans attached to towing vehicles and goods vehicles.
b) In some places there is local legislation which bans roadside/lay-by camping. Sometimes such bans are restricted to motorhomes and/or caravans, recognising the need for goods vehicle drivers to comply with their working restrictions).
c) Camping on land off the highway can only be legally done if the requirements of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 are complied with. For a summary see http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/act1960.htm.
Secondly, whilst it is true to say that "the concept of Wild Camping is written into legislation" it is also true to say that the definition of Wild Camping pertinent to that legislation does not include vehicular use. See http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/Practical-guide/public/camping. There are also specific local restrictions in some areas, just as there are in England & Wales.
Thirdly, the fact that wildcamping.co.uk and others provide details of off-site places where people have succesfully camped overnight in the UK does not mean that they have camped legally. All it means is that they have not been sanctioned for camping there.
See also http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/offsite.htm.
Note that all the observations above are based on facts gleaned from communication with the relevant bodies.
Lastly (and this is personal opinion), if anyone feels "the need to creep into public toilets with the cassette disguised in an adapted rucksack" then it can surely only be that they are well aware that they are doing something which, even if not illegal, is the sort of behaviour which tends to set the general public against all motorhome owners not just the individual concerned.Graham
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