CC policy question - Campervan barred from site?!
Hello All, I hope this is the right place for this, please point me in the right direction or moderators please move me if necessary.
I would like the Caravan Club to clarify their policy on campervans with pop tops/high sleeping arrangements and explain why I was asked not to return to a CC site last weekend.
I drive a Landrover Defender that I consider to be a 'campervan'. It is fitted with a roof tent plus a fold down berth inside, a two burner stove & fresh water tap/sink (mounted in a side window and accessible from outside), a large split 12v charging system running a fridge/freezer and a 240v inverter. You should be able to view a photograph of my ‘outfit’ fully rigged from last weekend here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BJGeIJCDxQV/ . That photo was taken at Burford Caravan Site on Saturday and ‘Nessie’ drew an enormous amount of interest from all who passed. The friendly and appreciative comments from CC members who have never seen such a setup are always lovely and make this complaint even more confusing.
For background I am not a member but I am a keen outdoorsman and camper and have taken my Landrover to all shapes and sizes of campsites in the UK and abroad, but I often stay at CC locations as my ‘in-laws’ are long term members with various caravans and now have a smart fiat motorhome. Meeting up for an evening at an equidistant campsite with my girlfriend’s family is fast becoming a tradition and I will either book a tent field pitch if cars are allowed on or a campervan hardstanding, no services required. Last weekend I booked a hardstanding pitch at Burford for one night so as to be next door to my in-laws pitch in their motorhome.
Unfortunately, on check out from Burford on Sunday morning I was told that I could not stay at a Club site with my vehicle and roof tent and was asked not to return with the Landrover, and that ‘it would be a training exercise for the staff that let me in’. This was the first I had heard of any problem, after a quiet evening BBQ on a large and busy family site, and even appreciative comments from one warden. When I asked why I was confused by the following; I could use the Landrover roof tent if I was towing a caravan and the tent was auxiliary sleeping space or I could consider the Landrover as an extra vehicle and park on my in-law’s pitch and then continue to use the tent. However, I could not have my own pitch. When I pushed further I was only given the reason that ‘there is a privacy issue with a roof tent’.
These are highly confusing and contradicting rules, particularly when you are parked next to a series of VW vans with pop top sleeping at the same height!
Could I please get members opinion and if possible official clarification on these regulations? I cannot help but feel that we were simply being subject to the most stereotypical example of the fabled CC prejudice. This is the only trouble I have ever had with my vehicle and it has simply served to drive me and my family away from the club in search of more inclusive campsites, a great shame to the club and its lovely sites.
Many thanks,
Dan
Comments
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DW, you have my sympathies. Thirty years ago, we toured with a rather unconventional pop top vehicle, like yours all kitted out on the inside with a sleeping berth, wash basin, fridge etc... We used to have the usual debate about what constituted a "touring
vehicle", usually convincing most Wardens with common sense. What you have in essence is not far removed from a trailer tent, albeit one that isn't towed but carries a sleeping berth on the roof. The Club allows trailer tents, so I would contact HQ, with relevant
photographs of the LR interior, showing berth and fridge interior, and politely put your case to them. For the sake of your sanity when visiting Club Sites, I would make sure that the Club HQ provide you with written evidence that your vehicle is acceptable,
otherwise you could find one or two Wardens unsure whether or not to accept your outfit. Good luck, we considered something similar to your rig at one time, but creaking joints and a pair of large dogs changed our minds!
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It looks to me like a car and a tent......not normally allowed on Caravan Club sites (except on specific areas of some of their sites). The clue is in the name Caravan Club really.
But you'll need to seek clarification from the sites department on their policies, as there doesn't appear to be much consistency in what they allow and what they don't.
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Hello Dan.
As suggested, I think you need to approach the CC Sites Team directly with your concerns rather than have speculation on an open forum.
The phone number is: 01342 327490.
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It looks to me like a car and a tent......not normally allowed on Caravan Club sites (except on specific areas of some of their sites). The clue is in the name
Caravan Club really.But you'll need to seek clarification from the sites department on their policies, as there doesn't appear to be much consistency in what they allow and what they don't.
Ian, Google Land Rover Campers. You will see a huge range of different types of camper vans, most of which will clearly show as being purpose designed camper vans, with differing sleeping arrangements. The CC hasn't been solely for those who tow a tin box
for decades, despite the somewhat prejudicial and judgemental opinions of a tiny minority of members.0 -
That takes me back Dan - we had a LWB landy with dormobile conversion - if I remember rightly we weren't welcomed by CC so joined the Motorhomers Club (title may be out but had a snail as the logo).
I hope you get clarification as it doesn't seem a lot different to people who have sleeping annexes in their awnings.
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Sounds very strange. I know the CC dont like non-standard conversions and that is down to each warden so maybe this is why? I would get an anwer in writing though - otherwise you might have this at every site you visit.
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I think it depends on how you define the vehicle i.e. is it a car with a tent on top or a motor caravan? Below is the Dept of Transport interpretation so how many boxes can you tick?
I have also seen this definition used in some MH insurance policy wording.
DFT definition of motor caravan
The following is taken from the DFT website now in the National Archives.
‘motor caravan’ means a special purposes passenger car constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:
• seats and table
• sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats
• cooking facilities
• storage facilities
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.
The interpretation applied to this definition is as follows
Seats and a table
• Are required to be an integral part of the living accommodation area, and mounted independently of other items.
• The table must be capable of being mounted directly to the vehicle floor and /or side wall.
• The table mounting arrangement must be secured as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded), although the table may be detachable.
• Permanently secured seating must be available for use at the table.
• The seats must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall.
• The seats must be secured as a permanent feature, (bolted riveted, screwed or welded).
Sleeping accommodation
• Must be an integral part of the living accommodation area.
• Either beds or a bed converted from seats (to form a mattress base).
• Secured as a permanent feature, with base structures bolted, riveted, screwed or welded to the vehicle floor and / or side wall, (unless the sleeping accommodation is provided as a provision over the driver's cab compartment.
Cooking facilities
• That are an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation and is mounted independently of other items.
• That are secured to the vehicle floor and /or side wall.
• Secured as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed, or welded.
• The cooking facility must consist of a minimum of a two ring cooking facility or a microwave in either case having a fuel/power source.
• If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel supply pipe must be permanently secured to the vehicle structure.
• If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel reservoir must be secured in a storage cupboard or the reservoir secured to the vehicle structure.
Storage facilities
• Storage facilities must be provided by a cupboard or locker.
• The facility must be an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation, ie mounted independently of other items, unless incorporated below seat/sleeping accommodation or the cooking facility.
• The storage facility must be a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded).
• The storage facility must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and / or side wall, unless a storage provision is provided over the driver's cab compartment.
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It looks to me like a car and a tent......not normally allowed on Caravan Club sites (except on specific areas of some of their sites). The clue is in the name
Caravan Club really.But you'll need to seek clarification from the sites department on their policies, as there doesn't appear to be much consistency in what they allow and what they don't.
Ian, Google Land Rover Campers. You will see a huge range of different types of camper vans, most of which will clearly show as being purpose designed camper vans, with differing sleeping arrangements. The CC hasn't been solely for those who tow a tin box
for decades, despite the somewhat prejudicial and judgemental opinions of a tiny minority of members.TtDA - I just did and I saw images of what looked like factory conversions of Landrovers into purpose made camper vans.
That doesn't seem to be what the op has got, hence why I suggested that he contacts the CC sites department for clarification.
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The "privacy" issue with the landrover roof tent (as per the OP) is nonsense as Burford allows tent campers, van conversions with pop up roofs, motorhomes with over cab beds etc. I'm pretty sure I've seen one at Hillhead over the New Year too. I hope the CC can respond to this query. Landrover adaptions like this have been in use for a long time (not cheap either!)
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I agree with you DD, nothing like arriving for holiday and being told you won't be having one!
We were nearly in that situation once with the RV, we arrived at 12 and met with a very unfriendly reception warden who told us if we had arrived at 4 we wouldnt have been allowed on. It really put us off that site for a long while and made us view the
club differently - not a nice experience so I feel for the OP.0 -
This is the club that has introduced pods and tents onto certain sites in order to appeal to a wider audience isn't it?
Well done Caravan Club! There is more than one person who needs retraining and it's not the person who allowed the Op onto the site.
I'm really surprised they didn't ask the Op who had sponsored him!
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Dan, the problem is the colour - it blends in too well with the environment - paint it white or better still magnolia so that it sticks out like a sore thumb and then you you will be fine
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The land rover design, with an externally accessed tent on its roof stretches the concept of caravan/ camper vans beyond traditional limits. Not to mention its ablutions and cooking facilities which fall behind those found in VW camper vans. So, surely, this is an issue for CC management to ponder - do they wish to redefine their boundaries or not? I'm left with a simpler dilemma - why join the CC whre your outfit might be controversial, when other organisations, more geared to tents are more likely to be accepting. If the OPs underlying motivation is to be controversial, and I did say "if", then I'm afraid that I think that the CC shouldn't be drawn into mind games.
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The land rover design, with an externally accessed tent on its roof stretches the concept of caravan/ camper vans beyond traditional limits. Not to mention its ablutions and cooking facilities which fall behind those found in VW camper vans. So, surely,
this is an issue for CC management to ponder - do they wish to redefine their boundaries or not? I'm left with a simpler dilemma - why join the CC whre your outfit might be controversial, when other organisations, more geared to tents are more likely to be
accepting. If the OPs underlying motivation is to be controversial, and I did say "if", then I'm afraid that I think that the CC shouldn't be drawn into mind games.OP said that he was not a CC member
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I think that Dan has been very hard done by.
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I wonder how close to these comments were the words used prior to motorhomes being allowed to use CC Ltd sites. Things move on and there will always be quirks and the system and people should be able to embrace all. When all is said and done it is all
just camping.Write your comments here...quite agree, do not see a problem, hardly the way to attract a new member, if the warden had behaved differantly, perhaps this person would have joined ?
As others have said, this is the same club that introduced static Pods....where do they fit in the touring spectrum?? Hypocritical.
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The land rover design, with an externally accessed tent on its roof stretches the concept of caravan/ camper vans beyond traditional limits. Not to mention its ablutions and cooking facilities which fall behind those found in VW camper vans. So, surely,
this is an issue for CC management to ponder - do they wish to redefine their boundaries or not? I'm left with a simpler dilemma - why join the CC whre your outfit might be controversial, when other organisations, more geared to tents are more likely to be
accepting. If the OPs underlying motivation is to be controversial, and I did say "if", then I'm afraid that I think that the CC shouldn't be drawn into mind games.Write your comments here...the serengetti camping club is looking for members. This out fit would look very much at home there!
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The land rover design, with an externally accessed tent on its roof stretches the concept of caravan/ camper vans beyond traditional limits. Not to mention its ablutions and cooking facilities which fall behind those found in VW camper vans. So, surely, this is an issue for CC management to ponder - do they wish to redefine their boundaries or not? I'm left with a simpler dilemma - why join the CC whre your outfit might be controversial, when other organisations, more geared to tents are more likely to be accepting. If the OPs underlying motivation is to be controversial, and I did say "if", then I'm afraid that I think that the CC shouldn't be drawn into mind games.
OP said that he was not a CC member
Write your comments here...
Yes I acknowledge that he isn't a paid up member, which for me makes the situation even more complex, because he is using CC associated sites. I've posted elsewhere, my dislike of people joining an organisation which doesn't meet their needs, then lobbying to change that organisation to make it more like some of the alternatives which they could have joined In the first place. Worse still to complain when you aren't even a member. There are a lot of UK based sites/ organisations which provide facilities for tents - the CC doesn't. The complexity here is that he's using a motor vehicle based tent, which many might consider to be akin to a folding caravan. Being a festival goer I've seen plenty of unconventional living accommodation such as horse boxes, old ambulances, improvised shacks and even sheets of plywood spanning two straw bales. The central issue here, I feel is, what does the CC define as their boundary for defining caravans/ motor homes.
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We met a lovely German couple travelling in an old East German Army lorry complete with gun mounting (gun removed) but I dont supose that would have fitted in either.
Depends if it was converted as we have seen conversions of similar vehicles used by members
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Thirty years ago, touring in a none conventional camper we met the kind of hypocrisy and snobbish, insular conservatism that a tiny minority of posters are expressing on this thread! Along with some misinformation about "not accepting tents".
Like a few other posters, we have seen a good few of these vehicles, used as intended, knitted out as described on Club and other sites up and down the country, without any issues. Like the OP, when we did it, most evenings on sites we had people say hello
and stop to ask us about our choice of tourer. It was only the fact that we did have it accepted that made us join. My advice to OP is get some advice from HQ, get it in writing, join, and enjoy your membership!Sorry if this sounds a bit sharp, but I had hoped that the prejudice and snob values had evaporated over the last thirty years, but clearly not!
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If they didn't like the vehicle owned by the OP, I wonder what they'd make of this one seen at Coniston Hall Camp Site recently.
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