The future for diesels
I was looking at new cars to replace the current one and was keen on another diesel. However in todays paper is an article suggesting the Government has listed six English and Welsh cities for polution control meaning drivers of diesels will have to pay to drive in them. The courts have suggested this is not enough and another 10 may be added to the list with Scotland possibly following suit. If this goes ahead are diesel cars due for the chop long term?
Comments
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Wildwood are you retired? Why would you want to drive in those cities? Moreover live there. If there was a decent public transport system, no one would need to drive in.
There was a report today from the RAC in response that showed 10% of older vehicles created over 50% of the polution. Euro 6 diesels are very clean.
Then it's the governent, can you believe what they say.
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I am retired but do need to drive into cities from time to time particularly Leeds and Cardiff where we have relatives. It is not clear just how much of the cities will be a problem or the cost. Apart from the cost it could also hammer the second hand
price of the diesel car and if the company market moved away from them as they need to go into cities, availability might be reduced.0 -
In my opinion we should wait and see! They might go the way of the Germans and issue stickers for different engines. The whole idea of diesels now having euro 5 and 6 engines is to reduce emissions and possibly older engines will be taxed a lot more.
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Ah well.
On days when I have to drive into Leeds, I will just have to leave the nice economical diesel Merc at home, and unleash the petrol beast instead.
Considering a 5.4 litre V8 AMG, never imagined it might be eco-friendly . Any chance of the VED on it coming down? it would help with the "man maths"
hell yeah, makes a lot of sense
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I'm curious as to what will happen with diesel lorrys, delivery vans, buses and taxis etc in these areas..?? .. and given that the port of Southampton is on the list for the future, what will happen there ? How does this work in London currently ?
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Typical lack of joined up thinking, it would appear.
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I'm curious as to what will happen with diesel lorrys, delivery vans, buses and taxis etc in these areas..?? .. and given that the port of Southampton is on the list for the future, what will happen there ? How does this work in London currently ?
In London it would seem it applies to older more polluting vehicles, which have to pay a daily charge. Although there are exemptions, which include cars at the moment.
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In London it is policed by ANPR cameras, just like the totally seperate congestion charge. If you enter the emission zone and your vehicle is not registered on the TFL website as being compliant you receive a fine in the post. There are no really old buses
in London now and hybrids are common.
When the scheme came into operation it caused a lot of problems for people who lived inside the zone as TFL would not give any exemptions. People with motorhomes had 3 choices. 1 Find storage outside the zone, 2 Buy a newer compliant vehicle, or 3 modify their
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A classic gas guzzling car pushing out pollutants is exempt from the congestion charge which makes a mockery of the rest of us running Euro 6 cars, (mine does not need Adblue).
My next towcar will be petrol, at present you can get 2L petrol with 240 ps and 380 nm.
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More Govt BS, if it's killing folk then ban the vehicles that pollute worst. If it's damaging health charge the polluters enormous amounts to enter Citys. Nope, they charge just enough to not actually put folk off coming into Citys. It's about money. Govts
don't mind you poisoning the inhabitants as long as you pay
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It seems unlikely that all diesel vehicles will be banned from the cities in question particularly since Euro 6 eliminates most of the NOx and more particulates as well. More likely only the more polluting vehicles will be banned however the goalposts will not stay still so a Euro 6 car could be banned in the future and part of your thinking may include how long you anticipate keeping the car.
It also occurs to me that in the present climate residuals for diesel cars will be impacted and that may become worse in the future if diesels become less popular and say a 2017 Euro 6 car is considered heavily pollutant compared to the new Euro 7 or 8 or whatever.
Personally I believe for City driving the electric car will eventually become the norm and I hope to buy one in 2020 by which time improved battery technology will have extended range to a point where the vehicle is useable for long journeys.
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However back in the real world where most people can only afford older used cars, where are the used EV's and hybrids at £3/4/5k? Where are the EV or hybrid vans your average plumber/tradesperson can afford? How do you charge your EV when you live in a block of flats or have on-street parking? With Which EV (or hybrid) can I tow a 1.6 ton caravan to Italy in 3 days? EU6 emmission requirements for diesel are barely different from EU6 requirements for petrol and manufacturers need diesel to meet their CO2 targets.
There is supposed to be an announcement due later today about a possible diesel scrappage scheme.
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Just watched a speech by a minister on line. What a load of Tosh, they are just making all the right noises to get votes because they know there is nothing they can do without having a major effect on the country and its economy.
And the little matter of there is nothing to offer as an alternative/replacement.
Quite funny really, I live in London, have a euro 5, 2013 freelander and 2006 euro 3 Triumph sprint motor cycle. by 2020 I won't be able to take them in to the London ULEZ but my 3litre V8 Triumph Stag which is 44 years old will be allowed in
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I heard on breakfast new this morning they are talking of getting rid of older diesel cars ,how old is old my camper is 2001 should I be worried I can't afford a newer vehicle
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Do you seriously think someone's going to remove it against your will?
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As FC posted, it will be within the Diesel scrappage scheme, if you don't want to scrap it you won't be allowed to drive into city A, B, C etc. No major problem GC-you will still be in control
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I cannot offer any factual detail but I do wonder whether replacing my immaculate and totally reliable diesel m/h with a new or fairly new one as a result of a scrappage scheme the environmental pollution generated in its manufacture would far exceed the pollution from my 17 yr old (c5000 miles a year) m/home. A reduction in pollution for the cities perhaps but not globally - which is where we ALL live.
One of the main reasons for city pollution is traffic congestion; a high density of crawling or stopped vehicles with engines running in relatively narrow streets and this is largely due to the inability of councils/governments to invest in and provide efficient and affordable public transport systems.
As said by others the underlying objective is to generate income, not reduce pollution, so they really don't want a reduction in the volume of cash-cow vehicles.
Anyway, once we're out of Europe we can make our own decisions (that's if anyone can still afford a motorhome
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From what I have seen in todays news the scrappage will be for an electric replacement which I think will be of little interest to club members.
You might get charged to drive into some cities but not sure which they will be so cannot judge if that will be a problem.
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The cold hard facts are, that unless and until, the vehicle and engine manufacturers realise that there is simply no alternative to the 2.5-3litre Diesel, offering prodigious Torque at low engine revolutions. The Ford transit and Merc Sprinter operators AND as a result the thousands of MH owners have no alternative to the Diesel!
If they really want us to stop using our diesels then they really do need to get someone to produce an alternative !
The prodigious 1,2 Litre 3 cylinder modern toy Petrol engined little car engine, will simply not pull my 1650Kg caravan to the south of France. Nor will it power white van man's big transit. The new hybrid engines, plug in or any other systems, will not tow heavy loads over long distances!
Yes! There are a few big PSV and bus engines that are Zero emissions but much as I would love the power output they are are bit bigger than I need!
In truth the industry has totally ignored the mid sized market, and concentrated on the toy cars and the big buses. they have ignored the middles sized market. Hence the current problem.
TF
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We have the EU to thank for the modern low pollution diesel engines and I'm guessing that as they will continue to regulate the market (but without UK imput) we will have to choose from what the manufacturers offer the rest of Europe.
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"Yes! There are a few big PSV and bus engines that are Zero emissions"
I assume you mean full electric vehicles? no engines involved but the electricity has to be produced in the first place to charge the batteries. So we are still polluting the air we breath.
Hybrid buses are still a long way from ideal. I worked for 30 years in the industry and experienced all the issues they had when first introduced. Even now they are doing extremely well if they achieve 14 MPG. then as they get older with have a big pile of lead Acid or Li-ion batteries to dispose of.
Back to the diesel issue, it's not just the man in the street running them, as well as haulage/distribution and public transport. some of the biggest vehicle fleets in the country are predominately diesel powered.
Police forces, armed forces, local authorities, emergency services, royal mail, and so on.
Diesels are here to stay for the foreseeable future, there is no alternative.
Let's just carry on caravaning
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