DVSA issuing illegal breakaway cable notices

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  • CBRBlackbird
    CBRBlackbird Forum Participant Posts: 184
    100 Comments
    edited July 2016 #182

    I replaced the cable on my last van and found it to be too long. I also up a loop in it, held in place with a couple of thin cable-ties. They would easily give way if (when) the need arose.

  • AutoAddict
    AutoAddict Forum Participant Posts: 114
    edited July 2016 #183

    Cable now replaced with an Al-Ko carabinier. Not an easy job to do on the handbrake end.

  • GlosJive
    GlosJive Forum Participant Posts: 80
    edited July 2016 #184

    Just checked my BMW X3 with electrically operated swan neck t / bar , there is definately no fixing hole to  connect the cable .

    Greetings from Cantabria. Like you, my X3 (2013) has a simple BMW retractable tow ball with nothing but the 13 pin socket on it. There is absolutely nowhere under the car to hook on the breakaway cable, it's all plastic. So, absolutely no option but to hook
    over the towball.

    I do note that an emergency towing eye is available in the boot with the tools, which could be screwed into the aperture in the rear plastic bumper, and the cable hooked onto that. However it is 18" to the left of the towball
    and IMHO would cause the caravan to swing violently to the left if used in the event of a breakaway.

    Write your comments here...would be interested in any solution with BMW factory fitted, electric, tow ball kit, for fitting of an eye for the breakaway cable.

    Also you'll need to check the electrics, BMW don't wire up for caravans, among other manufactures. See thread about this.

  • GlosJive
    GlosJive Forum Participant Posts: 80
    edited July 2016 #185

    Just checked the owners handbook of our 2016 Lunar. States where provided attach cable to attachment point on the car, otherwise where such attachment point does not exist - loop round towball.

  • Zedster
    Zedster Forum Participant Posts: 3
    edited July 2016 #186

    The last post about breakaway cable at Cherwell Valley could have been made by me. I had exactly the same problem and was issued with a Prohibition Notice giving me 10 days to correct (as I was on my way to Portsmouth for two weeks in Spain this was obviously
    a problem!) Mr Jobsworth would give no leeway and indeed I had to show that the breakaway cable could be attached to the towbar by having an Inspector visit my home. After I had calmed down a little and whilst he was writing up the report I searched in my
    toolbox, found two jubilee clips, managed to link them together and to the towbar and attached the pigtail. Mr Jobsworth found this entirely satisfactory and removed the Notice!!!

    He also told me my insurance would have been invalid in the event of a claim.

    I have just telephoned the Club and was told that they had been in touch with VOSA and VOSA agreed that looping round the towball was OK and no one should be stopped because of this - that clearly isn't happening!!!

  • Navigateur
    Navigateur Club Member Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #187

    In view of them not getting their act together can anyone find a copy of their form for a member of the public to register a complaint?

  • desimondo
    desimondo Forum Participant Posts: 33
    edited July 2016 #188

    This is very concerning. The majority of CC members are careful Caravanners and want to be doing what is considered technically correct and especially what is safe. The last thing that is needed amid all the other complexities that are involved is to find
    you haven't attached the break away cable "correctly". It is now seemingly 2 weeks since this was referred to VOSA ....what we need to see asap is a definitive statement on what has been agreed / the outcome of these discussions. 

  • Vulcan
    Vulcan Forum Participant Posts: 670
    edited July 2016 #189

    Whilst I agree that no one should be reprimanded for a law that does not exist as it appears in this case i think this does need addressing and the law should indeed preclude the breakaway cable been looped round the tow ball.What is the point of having
    a breakaway cable if the trailer becomes detached and takes the cable with it over the ball.

  • PhilMidlands
    PhilMidlands Forum Participant Posts: 23
    edited July 2016 #190

    For many years as club representative, I attended Europe wide industry commitee meetings discussing breakaway cables and attachment points. The result was a fudged code of practice as agreemnt to satisfy everyone was not possible. Basically if you just loop
    the cable round the ball it could jump off in a detachment. The attachment point on the tow bars mostly does not allow looping through and the dog clips supplied as standard are not strong enough unless looped also the cables are not long enough. Stronger
    dog clips are available but not fitted due to cost.ItI is time caravan and tow bar makers got together. I always use bolt on fixed balls with a dedicated plate for looping through.


     

  • desimondo
    desimondo Forum Participant Posts: 33
    edited July 2016 #191

    I have just checked my tow bar - a Witter detachable, and also read the handbook on my 2015 Swift Sprite. Alas it says specifically NOT to attach onto the small attachment point directly, and the hole is too small for it to pass through.......

    Have been on Witters website....nothing on attachment of breakaway cable.....zilch !......nothng in FAQ's, not even an email address to contact them. Wonderful. 

    Will alk to the dealer tomorrow. 

  • Surfer
    Surfer Club Member Posts: 1,303
    500 Comments 100 Likes
    edited July 2016 #192

    DVSA is there to enforce legislation and not to make it up as they go along!

  • Trini
    Trini Forum Participant Posts: 429
    edited July 2016 #193

    Just another confused interpretation by VOSA.

    Several years ago a coach crashed and it was found that it had tyres altho with acceptable tread depth no crcked walls they were over 10 years old.

    Now a psv/lgv can go thro its test with such tyres if then it drives from the testing station onto the road and is stopped by VOSA (same organisation who performs the test), they would then place a prohibition not to move the vehicle until the tyres are
    replaced.

  • desimondo
    desimondo Forum Participant Posts: 33
    edited July 2016 #194

    Have also now looked at both the Maypole and Alko carabiner clips. Have, as others have, elected to go for the Alko. It appears to be exactly same as the component it will replace apart from the carabiner, so assume will be the correct length and the fitting
    at the other end is the same as that being removed. Being made by Alko hopefully no-one can claim an inferior component has been added.

    Will now search t'internt for some vids on how to fit. Perhaps a couple of lump hammers as mentioned earlier might prove appropriate....not much by way of instruction but looks like a degree in Mechanical Engineering not needed.

    For £8.50 is well worth it for piece of mind and I too, now having thought about it, can't see the logic of attaching THE safety device to the very feature that has already possibly failed !

     

  • RichardPitman
    RichardPitman Forum Participant Posts: 127
    edited July 2016 #195

    I fitted my Alko carabineer cable surprisingly easily in the end.

    Plenty of access under the front of my Bailey Ranger. A flat screwdriver started the process of prising open the old cable loop, finished off using a tyre lever.

    New cable loop closed quite easily using mole grips, doing it a bit at a time, adjusting the wrench tighter each time. I tried using two lump hammers with little success.

    I WAS surprised at how easily I closed the loop, as I'd previously tried in my bench vice at home, and found that it needed quite a bit of effort to start it bending. Just hope I haven't stressed the metal too much.

  • Corniche007
    Corniche007 Forum Participant Posts: 1
    edited July 2016 #196

    As mentioned above by Richard, I fitted mine in a similar way, but used a dremel with cutting tool to initially remove the spring clip from the hand brake. Then with mole grips which on mine have an Allen key
    attachment on the wheel end I used them like a vice after initially clamping down to close the new hook shut in the hand brake. Took around 20 mins. 

  • Snowy1
    Snowy1 Forum Participant Posts: 263
    edited July 2016 #197

    Last year I started a discussion about the DVSA (formally vosa) bending & twisting the rules with regards policing Lorry Drivers, said discussion was titled "VOSA the Lorry Drivers Enemy" whilst some members were sympathetic others appeared not. Attitudes
    appear different now the same thing is happening to the caravan community i.e. the posibility that the DVSA are issuing illegal brackaway cable notices (PG 9) to caravanners.

  • Zedster
    Zedster Forum Participant Posts: 3
    edited July 2016 #198
    I have had a response from DVSA regarding my previous post and Prohibition Notice etc - it is rather long but appears that looping round is OK and the officer who stopped me was wrong to do so. 
    "Responding to your mail of 19 July to DVSA Customer Service Complaints with the above title. 



    Your and the Caravan Club's view on this matter is correct, that a breakaway cable can be looped around the towball provided it would actuate the trailer brakes in the event of separation of the trailer coupling. I reproduce below the wording of the actual
    law, which is regulation 86A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and use) Regulations 1986 as amended by statutory instrument 1995 no 551.
     



    You will see that its paragraphs 3 and 4 relate to larger trailers with braking systems. Paragraph 4 specifically states that it is in the event of  the separation of the main coupling  that the measure is designed to protect against subsequent danger. It is
    not required to protect against the failure or detachment  of the coupling components:
     



    “Use of secondary coupling on trailers

    86A.—(1) No person shall use or cause or permit to be used on a road a motor vehicle drawing one trailer if the trailer— 

    (a)is a trailer to which regulation 15 applies; and 

    (b)is not fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in the event of the separation of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion, 

    unless the requirements of paragraph (2) are met in relation to the motor vehicle and trailer. 

    (2) The requirements of this paragraph, in relation to a motor vehicle drawing a trailer, are that a secondary coupling is attached to the motor vehicle and trailer in such a way that, in the event of the separation of the
    main coupling while the trailer is in motion,— 

    (a)the drawbar of the trailer would be prevented from touching the ground; and 

    (b)there would be some residual steering of the trailer.

    (3) No person shall use or cause or permit to be used on a road a motor vehicle drawing one trailer if— 

    (a)the trailer is a trailer to which regulation 15 applies;

    (b)the trailer is fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in the event of the separation of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion; 

    (c)the operation of the device in those circumstances depends upon a secondary coupling linking the device to the motor vehicle; and

    (d)the trailer is not also fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in those circumstances in the absence of such a secondary coupling, 

    unless the requirements of paragraph (4) are met in relation to the motor vehicle and trailer. 

    (4) The requirements of this paragraph, in relation to a motor vehicle drawing a trailer, are that the secondary coupling is attached to the motor vehicle and trailer in such a way that, in the event of the separation
    of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion,
     the device of the kind referred to in paragraph (3)(b) and (c) fitted to the trailer would stop the trailer. 

    (5) This regulation is without prejudice to any other provision in these Regulations.”. 

    I will draw this to Harold Cooper's attention. 



    Steve Whitehart |
     Heavy Vehicle Technical Officer. 

    Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Ellipse, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN 

    Phone: 01792 454306, Fax 01792 454387  

    ---------------------

    I followed this up as I was unclear about fixed/detachable towballs; the reply is as follows:-



     

    "I believe that the circumstances that the regulations are intended to deal with are when the towing coupling comes off the towball, because of a miscoupling or due to wear in the locking device
    rather than any other component detachment. Accordingly I would not say it makes any difference whether the towbar were fixed or detachable as to how the breakaway cable is attached. Unfortunately this opinion is not binding on myself or DVSA  as  interpretation
    of the law is the prerogative of the courts.



  • bandgirl
    bandgirl Forum Participant Posts: 440
    100 Comments
    edited July 2016 #199

    Thanks Zedster, your post has cleared up a lot of confusion.

  • Navigateur
    Navigateur Club Member Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #200

    Cable now replaced with an Al-Ko carabinier. Not an easy job to do on the handbrake end.

    That seems odd.  The cable on mine is attached to a thing like a giant split ring keyring.

  • Vulcan
    Vulcan Forum Participant Posts: 670
    edited July 2016 #201

    I cannot see the logic of the DVSA or The Caravan Club. Having read the regulations, how can looping the cable over the ball be legal if in all probability the cable will come off the ball with the coupling.

  • Lutz
    Lutz Forum Participant Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2016 #202

    I cannot see the logic of the DVSA or The Caravan Club. Having read the regulations, how can looping the cable over the ball be legal if in all probability the cable will come off the ball with the coupling.

    I can't quite see the grounds for your assumption that the cable will 'in all probability' come off the ball. I wonder whether there are any facts in support of such a statement.

  • flatcoat
    flatcoat Forum Participant Posts: 1,571
    1000 Comments
    edited July 2016 #203

    Vulcan, can you point out the wording that that supports your assertion? What evidence do you have that looping over is ineffective? Are you also saying all the those cars without a separate eye to attach the cable are illegal and need a new tow bar retro-fitting,
    (such as my 3 year old Westphalia detachable tow bar)? The inference in your comment suggests all the CC and C & CC trainers are advising members to break the law! I think it is your assertion that defies logic, however well intentioned it may have been meant. 

     

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
    1000 Comments
    edited July 2016 #204

    I think it highly improbable that the cable would come off the ball in the event of a detatchment

  • Snowy1
    Snowy1 Forum Participant Posts: 263
    edited July 2016 #205

    I think Vulcan maybe referring to the possibility of a swan-neck type tow-ball snapping off at it's mounting point, this would mean if it was looped around the balls-neck it would come off with the tow-hitch, if it was connected to its own separate connection point it would do it's job Correctly. Just a thought.

    Colin

  • Snowy1
    Snowy1 Forum Participant Posts: 263
    edited July 2016 #206

    As many of these swan-neck type tow-balls are detachable one could logically assum it maybe a weak point? But as said; there is no evidence to support this!

  • AutoAddict
    AutoAddict Forum Participant Posts: 114
    edited July 2016 #207

    As many of these swan-neck type tow-balls are detachable one could logically assum it maybe a weak point? But as said; there is no evidence to support this!

    If a detachable was a weak point, how does it manage to pull a caravan?

  • Snowy1
    Snowy1 Forum Participant Posts: 263
    edited July 2016 #208

    As many of these swan-neck type tow-balls are detachable one could logically assum it maybe a weak point? But as said; there is no evidence to support this!

    If a detachable was a weak point, how does it manage to pull a caravan?

    In theory, any mechanical linkage is open to failure or do you disagree? To answer your question, a push bikes' chain always has a weakest link but it still does the job.

  • Lutz
    Lutz Forum Participant Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2016 #209

    I think Vulcan maybe referring to the possibility of a swan-neck type tow-ball snapping off at it's mounting point, this would mean if it was looped around the balls-neck it would come off with the tow-hitch, if it was connected to its own separate connection point it would do it's job Correctly. Just a thought.

    Colin

    The factory-fitted Westfalia swan neck towbar on my car has a dedicated anchorage point on the neck itself so the argument regarding not looping the cable because the neck could snap off doesn't hold.

  • Snowy1
    Snowy1 Forum Participant Posts: 263
    edited July 2016 #210

    Fair comment Sir, I respect your point, it's a discussion not an argument.

  • Navigateur
    Navigateur Club Member Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #211

    The factory-fitted Westfalia swan neck towbar on my car has a dedicated anchorage point on the neck itself so the argument regarding not looping the cable because the neck could snap off doesn't hold.

    To me that seems that Westfalia are doing something to comply with the "law" rather than with sense.