DVSA issuing illegal breakaway cable notices
Comments
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The question is if they issue a Prohibition Order on a vehicle and a caravan and give you 7 days to comply, what happens then as how can they enforce it as we have two seperate units? Surely they do not expect you to hitch up the caravan and present yourself
at the nearest VOSA depot?0 -
The question is if they issue a Prohibition Order on a vehicle and a caravan and give you 7 days to comply, what happens then as how can they enforce it as we have two seperate units? Surely they do not expect you to hitch up the caravan and present yourself
at the nearest VOSA depot?Write your comments here...yes they do and you have to book it in not just turn up
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Surfer & rjb really interesting points.
To remove the notice section 72 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says ‘Subject to the following provisions of this section, a prohibition under section 69 or 70 of this Act may be removed by any vehicle examiner or authorised constable if he is satisfied
that the vehicle is fit for service.’ So the question is what is the definition of ‘satisfied that the vehicle is fit for service'?The DVSA policy on removal of prohibition notices is contained in the DVSA Categories of Defects document. Paragraph 26 of this says
‘In law, examiners have absolute discretion over the scope of examination, which in their opinion is necessary for them to be satisfied that the vehicle is “fit for service”.”There appears to be nothing in the legislation or DVSA policy that says it must be examined (except in some limited circumstances e.g. goods and passenger vehicles etc) and where it is examined. It would seem it is down to the individual examiner.
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So a car with a towbar that doesn't have a dedicated anchorage point for the breakaway cable can have it looped around the towbar and still be 'fit for service', but one that does have a proper anchorage point and yet have the cable looped around the towball
is 'unfit for service'? I don't understand the logic of that.0 -
I also want to know what legal authority a DVSA officer has to stop anyone from driving? What is the CC doing to advise members about the true legal position with this issue.......?
They have none as far as i,m concerned.They are not the police and even they cant stop you without a valid reason.This whole type of situation has got out of hand over the years.People are being told this and that by some jumped up so and so in a uniform
who is usually badly informed and thus out of order but many take it as gospel and dont question it.My advice to anyone who thinks they are being intimidated like this is to film it all on your mobile phone for your own protection and be polite but firm and
dont be intimidated.peter.
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I notice that the transcript of the prohibition notice posted earlier on this thread, shows that it comes into effect on 11/7, so there was no intention to prevent the journey continuing and it wasn't a cause for outrage. Reading through postings and industry advice, it seems that using the dedicated fixing point where one is available is a safety enhancement and as such can only be good. We've traditionally looped around the ball but will stop doing so with immediate effect. This morning we've ordered the correct Alko cable for use with a dedicated attachment point, for under £10 including delivery. A small price for a safety feature, whether advisory, a directive or the law, I'd say. If anyone is to be criticised it seems that caravan manufacturers have lagged behind towbar safety compliance.
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Just checked my BMW X3 with electrically operated swan neck t / bar , there is definately no fixing hole to connect the cable .
Greetings from Cantabria. Like you, my X3 (2013) has a simple BMW retractable tow ball with nothing but the 13 pin socket on it. There is absolutely nowhere under the car to hook on the breakaway cable, it's all plastic. So, absolutely no option but to hook
over the towball.I do note that an emergency towing eye is available in the boot with the tools, which could be screwed into the aperture in the rear plastic bumper, and the cable hooked onto that. However it is 18" to the left of the towball
and IMHO would cause the caravan to swing violently to the left if used in the event of a breakaway.0 -
Current legislation makes no direct reference to how a breakaway cable is attached to the towing vehicle and also makes no reference to a "breakaway cable" as those words are not used.
However it does reference the coupling should be secured to prevent the drawbar from falling on the ground and that the brakes of the trailer should be applied in the event of a detachment.
I am not sure how current breakaway cables will prevent the drawbar from falling onto the ground as in most cases they will snap.
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I notice that the transcript of the prohibition notice posted earlier on this thread, shows that it comes into effect on 11/7, so there was no intention to prevent the journey continuing and it wasn't a cause for outrage. Reading through postings and industry
advice, it seems that using the dedicated fixing point where one is available is a safety enhancement and as such can only be good. We've traditionally looped around the ball but will stop doing so with immediate effect. This morning we've ordered the correct
Alko cable for use with a dedicated attachment point, for under £10 including delivery. A small price for a safety feature, whether advisory, a directive or the law, I'd say. If anyone is to be criticised it seems that caravan manufacturers have lagged behind
towbar safety compliance.Ordered mine already, should be delivered anytime now...
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The breakaway cable is designed to snap - but only once the brakes have been applied. As for drawbar dropping on the ground, think of the hinged drawbar on trailers behind traction engines, not caravans.
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So a car with a towbar that doesn't have a dedicated anchorage point for the breakaway cable can have it looped around the towbar and still be 'fit for service', but one that does have a proper anchorage point and yet have the cable looped around the towball
is 'unfit for service'? I don't understand the logic of that....my sentiments exactly !! However I can confirm that if you travel to the Netherlands the Police will issue an on the spot fine if you have your cable looped over the tow ball...
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So much for EU harmonisation over the past many decades.
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I also want to know what legal authority a DVSA officer has to stop anyone from driving? What is the CC doing to advise members about the true legal position with this issue.......?
They have none as far as i,m concerned.They are not the police and even they cant stop you without a valid reason.This whole type of situation has got out of hand over the years.People are being told this and that by some jumped up so and so in a uniform who is usually badly informed and thus out of order but many take it as gospel and dont question it.My advice to anyone who thinks they are being intimidated like this is to film it all on your mobile phone for your own protection and be polite but firm and dont be intimidated.
peter.
I think the DVSA staff have powers to stop vehicles for inspection only. This is because they are covered by the Community Safety Accreditation Scheme under paragraph 5 of Schedule 8 of the Police Reform Act 2002. They don't as somebody said need to have police officers present. Normally police officers would be present as part of multi agency operations. I also think the inspectors may also have powers to issue fixed penalty notices.
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I also want to know what legal authority a DVSA officer has to stop anyone from driving? What is the CC doing to advise members about the true legal position with this issue.......?
They have none as far as i,m concerned.They are not the police and even they cant stop you without a valid reason.This whole type of situation has got out of hand over the years.People are being told this and that by some jumped up so and so in a uniform
who is usually badly informed and thus out of order but many take it as gospel and dont question it.My advice to anyone who thinks they are being intimidated like this is to film it all on your mobile phone for your own protection and be polite but firm and
dont be intimidated.peter.
I think the DVSA staff have powers to stop vehicles for inspection only. This is because they are covered by the Community Safety Accreditation Scheme under paragraph 5 of Schedule 8 of the Police Reform Act 2002. They don't as somebody said need to have
police officers present. Normally police officers would be present as part of multi agency operations. I also think the inspectors may also have powers to issue fixed penalty notices.Write your comments here...They do have powers to immobilise a vehicle if needed , havent you seen the HGV with big cables thru the wheels , which are removed by DVSA when the vehicle is fee to go , for what ever reason it was issued with a prohibition .
So the power is not one to stop you driving but one to prevent movement of the vehicle . They also have powers to direct and stop vehicles on the road , this was brought in to relieve the requirement of Police presence . They also can issue FPN for various
offences though these are transport related , not as wide as Police . They can in event of a prohibition being issued , specify what level of inspection is required to have it lifted , and method and restrictions on vehicle or trailer being moved ..0 -
Scary. And they wonder why folks 'have no respect'. Like the traffic wardens on TV last week, reminding their abusers that 'there is a human being inside this uniform'. Hmmm, only obeying orders, heard that excuse before.
I digress. My Alko carabiner cable arrived today. Pleased to see that it is exactly the same length as the present Alko dog clip cable, and that the carabiner fits the newly discovered hole in my towing bracket.
However, attaching this will involve considerable grovelling in the dirt, as it is tucked away well under the rear of the car. And fitting it to the van will involve heavier duty tools than ones carried on my motorbike, when I went to inspect the van at
our storage site. Two lump hammers appear to be the most expediate method of closing the loop at the hand brake end, once I've prised or cut the old one off.0 -
I also want to know what legal authority a DVSA officer has to stop anyone from driving? What is the CC doing to advise members about the true legal position with this issue.......?
They have none as far as i,m concerned.They are not the police and even they cant stop you without a valid reason.This whole type of situation has got out of hand over the years.People are being told this and that by some jumped up so and so in a uniform
who is usually badly informed and thus out of order but many take it as gospel and dont question it.My advice to anyone who thinks they are being intimidated like this is to film it all on your mobile phone for your own protection and be polite but firm and
dont be intimidated.peter.
I think the DVSA staff have powers to stop vehicles for inspection only. This is because they are covered by the Community Safety Accreditation Scheme under paragraph 5 of Schedule 8 of the Police Reform Act 2002. They don't as somebody said need to have
police officers present. Normally police officers would be present as part of multi agency operations. I also think the inspectors may also have powers to issue fixed penalty notices.Write your comments here...
You all seem to have become a little overexcited here - police, powers, intimidation, jumped up officials, filming evidence etc. The vehicle was stopped and a post dated prohibitation order was issued. At which point the driver was free to leave. Instead,
they revised their breakaway cable fixing and the prohibition order was lifted. It all sounds very civilised and well managed to me.0 -
Usually when these guys are carrying out their lawful duties there are police in attendance, however DVSA/VOSA have had the power to stop since 2014. I think you will find that these organisations a lot more power than you may imagine. We should all consider the safety of others if the van came adrift and the brakes didn't function
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If the cable supplied with caravan is not suitable to comply with the regulations surely the van is not fit for purpose from Day1. Should the caravan become adrift from the towing vehicle and the brakes are applied, with a stronger cable fitted, I would think that the A frame wiill be dragged along the road and heaven knows at what angle the caravan will be in.
A couple of years ago I came across an outfit, that had left Moreton in Marsh shortly before me, and the caravan was adrift on on the opposite side of the road along with the towing vehicle, but in almost straight line and the breakaway cable had put the brakes on and with some help from other road users, we were able to reattach the caravan to the car.
My point is that where would the caravan have finished up with using a stronger breakaway cable or have I missed something.
Rob
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,A Trailer that i purchased in France ,has a CHAIN to hook over the towball !! When i enquired of a cable ,the usual shrug
of the shoulders ,and " oh no ,we don't supply that " came the reply !! ??0 -
,A Trailer that i purchased in France ,has a CHAIN to hook over the towball !! When i enquired of a cable ,the usual shrug
of the shoulders ,and " oh no ,we don't supply that " came the reply !! ??Because an unbraked trailer requires only a chain to prevent the drawbar from hitting the ground in the event of it detaching from the cars towball
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What I am still not clear on is whether my cable is "fit" to clip into the little eye and not break before caravan brake has been applied.? It sounds as though one with a carrabinier is an investment?
Write your comments here...
Pippah, Alko have shown us in words and pictures, that their loop and fixed attachment cables are subtly different. If you have a dedicated attachment point on your towbar, then you should use it. Alko charge around £8.50 for the correct cable.
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Thanks Jenny I need to get a decent kneeling mat too I suppose
. My brother saw me loop round the ball the other day and pointed to the dedicated place pity they have to be so hidden. Also a pity that not all cables are fit to be clipped. Thanks too to the OP for drawing attention to the whole issue.
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Thanks Jenny I need to get a decent kneeling mat too I suppose
. My brother saw me loop round the ball the other day and pointed
to the dedicated place pity they have to be so hidden. Also a pity that not all cables are fit to be clipped.Thanks too to the OP for drawing attention to the whole issue.
I have a sneaky feeling that when the inspector issued me with that prohibition notice...and the subsequent removal of the prohibition notice.... He knew I was the one that would raise the issue on the club forum and subsequently getting the message 'out
there' . As I'm sure there has been a surge in Alko 'carabiner' clip cables...I wonder if I can claim some commission. Glad I did....and hope the club publicises this on all its media platforms...'0 -
We clip ours through the hole in the bracket. From bitter experience I can confirm that it does work. We did not connect the van to the tow ball correctly when we first purchased our van. Fortunately the van came away from the car at very low speed and no
damaged sustained thank goodness. The breakaway cable worked fine0 -
With the standard breakaway cable and clip, it should not be clipped to a 'hole' in the bracket. The standard clip 'can' straighten itself under stress before operating the brake mechanism.
Luck seems to have been on the side of anyone where it has worked.
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I have a sneaky feeling that when the inspector issued me with that prohibition notice...and the subsequent removal of the prohibition notice.... He knew I was the one that would raise the issue on the club forum and subsequently getting the message 'out there' . As I'm sure there has been a surge in Alko 'carabiner' clip cables...I wonder if I can claim some commission. Glad I did....and hope the club publicises this on all its media platforms...'
Write your comments here...
I'm glad that you posted too. It seems that many of us weren't really adopting 'best practice'. It's a shame though, that tow bar manufacturers seem to be a bit half hearted in terms of locating the attachment point conveniently. Like Pippah, I think that a gardening sponge kneeling mat may be called for.
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Can any body post a link to the legislation governing trailers and connections? I can't find anything in the
Roads Act I also found
this which made interesting reading especially on dimensions.After spending hours reading up on all sorts of legislation I have come to the conclusion that there is
NO legislation regarding a breakaway cable as all that is required is a device to brake the trailer in the event of the trailer disconnecting from the towing vehicle.There is absolutely NO reference to a breakaway cable or any cable for that matter to brake the trailer in the event of a disconnection.
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