DVSA issuing illegal breakaway cable notices
Comments
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Did this new(and stupid) law come from Brussels???????.The ajority of break away cables fitted to caravans are of a design that require the cable clip to be looped back onto the cable.The majority of towbars are not fitted with brackets that will allow this!We
have had this argument before and it was agreed that the cable could be looped over the neck of the towball in the absence of any other suitable attachment point!The cable should have a straight pull and not be too short or too long when attached! In 30 years
of fitting towbars and a further 16 years involved with caravans I have never seen or heard of a broken towball although I admit that towball fixings might not have been correctly tightened or the caravan might not have been correctly attachedWrite your comments here...
No EU law whatsoever is made in Brussels. All are made by elected members of all the countries affected. ie there must have been British agreement if indeed there is such a law.
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No EU law whatsoever is made in Brussels. All are made by elected members of all the countries affected. ie there must have been British agreement if indeed there is such a law.
Since when are laws not made and ratified by the EU parliament? They do not need British agreemnet to pass a directive either.
However the op's post does raise a question if there had bene an issue and he was not able to proceed on his journey. Would Mayday have take the units home in these circumstances?
How can the DVSA issue a prohibtion notice against either the towing vehicle or the caravan as when seperated both units are perfectly legal?
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I have had a look at the DVSA Categorisation of Defect booklet, which is the guide for all vehicle examiners. It makes great bedtime reading!!! On page 157 there is guidance on defective breakaway cables. The guidance does not provide clarity as to the requirements
other than saying 'missing/damaged/defective'. I would be interested to know as Lutz says as to what specific legislation they are making reference to.A further issue is why the vehicle inspector issued a immediate prohibition order rather than a delayed prohibition notice if this was the only fault? The
DVSA Categorisation of Defect guidance to its staff is to issue a delayed notice for breakaway cable issues. I appreciate that it's only guidance but the DVSA inspector would be additionally required to account and justify that raising it to an immediate
prohibition is proportionate, necessary and legal.Are the DVSA in a culture of hitting targets? Was it really necessary and a cost effective use of resources to spend time issuing the notice, the driver then 'correcting' the issue and then issuing a Removal of Prohibition Notice. Would it not have been
more effective if the driver could and did fix the issue to give words of advice? I could understand if the driver couldn't or wouldn't fix the issue, the vehicle was so dangerous or the driver was being prosecuted that a prohibition notice would be necessary.
The DVSA say that their role in improving road safety includes enforcement and education.I'd like to thank GTP Caravanner for starting this discussion.
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I have had a look at the DVSA Categorisation of Defect booklet, which is the guide for all vehicle examiners. It makes great bedtime reading!!! On page 157 there is guidance on defective breakaway cables. The guidance does not provide clarity as to the requirements
other than saying 'missing/damaged/defective'. I would be interested to know as Lutz says as to what specific legislation they are making reference to.A further issue is why the vehicle inspector issued a immediate prohibition order rather than a delayed prohibition notice if this was the only fault? The
DVSA Categorisation of Defect guidance to its staff is to issue a delayed notice for breakaway cable issues. I appreciate that it's only guidance but the DVSA inspector would be additionally required to account and justify that raising it to an immediate
prohibition is proportionate, necessary and legal.Are the DVSA in a culture of hitting targets? Was it really necessary and a cost effective use of resources to spend time issuing the notice, the driver then 'correcting' the issue and then issuing a Removal of Prohibition Notice. Would it not have been
more effective if the driver could and did fix the issue to give words of advice? I could understand if the driver couldn't or wouldn't fix the issue, the vehicle was so dangerous or the driver was being prosecuted that a prohibition notice would be necessary.
The DVSA say that their role in improving road safety includes enforcement and education.I'd like to thank GTP Caravanner for starting this discussion.
Thanks for your comment dwlgll20 re starting this discussion.. with reference to your second para above regarding the issue of a 'delayed' prohibition notice. In fact it was a delayed notice to come into effect on 7 July (see earlier post) but the actual
wording contradicts that statement. Being a civil servant in a previous life and having 'proof' read thousands of 'guidance' documents i know how just one line of wording can be missed or incorrectly applied to a piece of 'policy/legislation'. I can offer
a guess that the actual wording "I hereby prohibit all driving etc etc" applies to situations where the vehicle is not roadworthy and cannot be allowed to continue.0 -
Being new to Caravans and the only towing I have done so far is to bring my van home, this is all a bit worrying.
I must admit, as I have a Discovery 4 with removeable tow bar, to me it makes no sense to hook Break Away cable to a device that could potentially detatch from the car, things DO go wrong after all.
I do have a secure point I can connect my cable to but it is a little to tight to 'loop through' but I think would be fine if I clipped on to it, my problem is I do not know if my Carabiner is rated high enough that the cable woudl break before the carabiner.
So, how do I find out?
There is plenty of space on the cable end loop to fit a stronger Carabiner but need to know the breaking weight of the cable so i know I am buying a Carabiner that is rated higher than the cable.
Can anyone advise please?
Robin
PS I did notice on one site, there were pictures of two types of break away connector, one looked like a carabiner and one looked like a clip, the clip was marked as loop through, the carabiner was marked as direct connect, mine has this direect connect
type connector so maybe it is okay to connect this direct to my attachment point?0 -
The European Directive 94/20 only states that a breakaway cable must be attached. The recently updated Regulation 55 states that towbars should now be manufactured with a dedicated attachment point for said cable.
As the law does not clearly say how to attach the cable, it cannot be considered illegal to wrap it around on itself if there is no designated attachment point. It is only a legal requirement to make sure it is attached. It might prove helpful to have a
copy of the Industry standard on breakaway cables
here.0 -
A very interesting discussion and one that could affect us all. However, I've just looked at various sites, Alko, the NCC and CaravanGuard Insurance. All state that breakaway cables with the spring type clip, if there is no dedicated fixing point, may be
put around the towball. Only those cables with a caribena type clip may be directly clipped to the car. Page 636 of the current club handbook also shows the same information and diagrams. It would seem that the DVSA inspector might need to check the regulations.
By implication, his ascertion that the caravan owners insurance would not be valid cannot hold water especially if it was insured with Caravanguard who approve the wrap around the towball method of attachment on their online documentation.0 -
The European Directive 94/20 only states that a breakaway cable must be attached. The recently updated Regulation 55 states that towbars should now be manufactured with a dedicated attachment point for said cable.
As the law does not clearly say how to attach the cable, it cannot be considered illegal to wrap it around on itself if there is no designated attachment point. It is only a legal requirement to make sure it is attached. It might prove helpful to have a
copy of the Industry standard on breakaway cables
here.As I do have a designated attachment point on the towbar bracket (newly discovered) but too small to pass the clip through...I am as Fig 2 shows. Just had a call returned from my dealer who i had asked for advice regarding the cable clip...and am told that
the manufacturer says the clip is not designed to directly attach to the towbar and will fail...it must be looped around on itself. As I have a Witter detacheable i am now as in the wording opp Fig3b. "You must seek guidance on procedure from the Towbar manufacturer"....putting
a call in now to Witter..will post an update....Will be ready for another holiday after this !!0 -
The clips are cheap to purchase, W4 do one that is dead easy to fit at around £7 from amazon. I have the Maypole mp501 at around £3.50 delivered from amazon. I bought the maypole as my clip wouldnt fit though the hole, i then purchased another spare as i saw how easily the cables were forgotten about....
They are cheap and easy enough to fit, just replace them if your car has a clip point to keep the men in straight..... i mean the men with clipboards quiet.
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It would seem that the DVSA inspector might need to check the regulations. By implication, his ascertion that the caravan owners insurance would not be valid cannot hold water especially if it was insured with Caravanguard who approve
the wrap around the towball method of attachment on their online documentation.I think that we have here is an over zealous inspector perhaps trying to meet targets? This needs to be brought to the attention of his superior as soon as possible as
his incorrect ruling may spoil someone's holiday.0 -
. It might prove helpful to have a copy of the Industry standard on breakaway cables
here.Then again, it might not as that is dated 2003, and as we all know, a week is a long time in politics!
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Prompted by this discussion, I've just been out and deployed the tow bar on my W221 S Klasse. This one is operated from a switched lever in the boot that releases the tow bar forging that incorporates the tow ball, then you lock it into position by lifting
it by hand. The 13 pin electric plug is built into the forging with the associated loom.There is no attachment for the breakaway cable on the tow bar anywhere, nor under the rear bumper.
I will continue to connect the breakaway cable after hitching up, locking the stabiliser, plugging in the 13 pin plug and ensuring the breakaway cable is free of interference in articulation of the combination unit of car and caravan both laterally and vertically
and that it hangs in such a position as to be able to operate in the event of a departure between car and caravan.Should I meet an unqualified jobsworth on the road I will challenge their credentials, and if required provide mine as on the little plastic card I carry in my wallet
If it was easy to put images on here I would as a picture paints a 1000 words
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It would seem that the DVSA inspector might need to check the regulations. By implication, his ascertion that the caravan owners insurance would not be valid cannot hold water especially if it was insured with Caravanguard who approve the wrap around the towball method of attachment on their online documentation.
I think that we have here is an over zealous inspector perhaps trying to meet targets? This needs to be brought to the attention of his superior as soon as possible as his incorrect ruling may spoil someone's holiday.
Haveing read most of this thread i have too agree.I doubt very much that it is against the "law" as we know it..Laws are passed by parliement and i doubt very much that mp,s ever discussed breakaway cables ever.Its part of the road traffic act and therefore not a law its part of an act...Also if we come down too the "law" unless you are being detained or under arrest in which case you would have to be suspected of a crime, then you are quite at liberty to go on your way and under no obligation to answer any questions especially too someone from the dvsa.Now many wont agree with this but we have such a thing as rights in the UK and the public are now becomeing les tolerant to being intimidated by people in uniform who should have something better to do.
peter.
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The European Directive 94/20 only states that a breakaway cable must be attached. The recently updated Regulation 55 states that towbars should now be manufactured with a dedicated attachment point for said cable.
As the law does not clearly say how to attach the cable, it cannot be considered illegal to wrap it around on itself if there is no designated attachment point. It is only a legal requirement to make sure it is attached. It might prove helpful to have a
copy of the Industry standard on breakaway cables
here.As I do have a designated attachment point on the towbar bracket (newly discovered) but too small to pass the clip through...I am as Fig 2 shows. Just had a call returned from my dealer who i had asked for advice regarding the cable clip...and am told that
the manufacturer says the clip is not designed to directly attach to the towbar and will fail...it must be looped around on itself. As I have a Witter detacheable i am now as in the wording opp Fig3b. "You must seek guidance on procedure from the Towbar manufacturer"....putting
a call in now to Witter..will post an update....Will be ready for another holiday after this !!As promised...the tech man from Witter returned my call and referred me to the same info sheet as offered above by the club...also that I purchase a D shackle and loop the cable through that. However I have taken note of the help sheet by caravan guard at:- http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/essential-guide-caravan-breakaway-cables-7707/
which shows two different types of cable/clips. One is a standard clip designed for loop attachment, the other a more heavy duty carabiner clip designed for direct attachment. In fact Alko have the latter as a part no.1220984 and retails at £8:50 :- http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/breakaway-cable-with-caribena-clip.html
. I think it is simply a case of replacing my existing 'standard' cable for one of these heavy duty types...0 -
The DVSA have many powers when it comes to prohibiting vehicles, they have the power to stop any vehicle from leaving their check-point. But, I do believe they must have a police officer there to enforce their order.
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I have just asked the Towbar installer who fitted mine and has told me that you cannot have the breakaway cable wrapped around the ball and it has to be attached to the vehicle. My Swift dealer told me the same 2 months ago. The only place i have to attach
the breakaway cable is to directly clip it into the small hole that is on the bracket on the tow ball as in the pic on the op previous post. How does this work when the clip is fragile and would not hold the caravan it would just break. The law seems to be
wrong.0 -
As I said on the other thread, I suspect the PG9 was issued in this case because the OP did have an attachment designed for a breakaway cable but hadn't used it. Those posting on here with a small hole type attachment point need to change their breakaway cable to one with a carabiner, which will clip through the hole and doesn't need to be looped, the clip fitted to most shouldn't be snapped through the hole as the clip isn't designed for this purpose and may fail prematurely if you have a detachment.
I found this leaflet from caravan Guard Insurance useful (which states it IS accepatble to loop the cable over the ball if no other means of attachment is available).
http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/essential-guide-caravan-breakaway-cables-7707/
Issuing a PG9 for something that is fixed in 10 seconds sounds a bit OTT to me, but the DVSA staff are presumably measured on how many they dish out...
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I have just asked the Towbar installer who fitted mine and has told me that you cannot have the breakaway cable wrapped around the ball and it has to be attached to the vehicle. My Swift dealer told me the same 2 months ago. The only place i have to attach
the breakaway cable is to directly clip it into the small hole that is on the bracket on the tow ball as in the pic on the op previous post. How does this work when the clip is fragile and would not hold the caravan it would just break. The law seems to be
wrong.Especially when the breakaway cable is fitted by the caravan manufacturer.
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I have been monitoring this topic especially as I am a "looper" even though I have a towing hole somewhere underneath the car which is so small the clip will not pass through it.
However where I believe our club can help all of us on here,is to find out why the DVSA issued a prohibition order.And then revoked it when the OP could demonstrate he could overcome the routing of the brakeaway cable.
What if as stated on here,no alternatives routing of the cable was possible.
It is the "severity" of the DVSA on this issue that us caravanners needs answers on.
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My Alko breakaway Cable on my Lunar Ariva is quite long- if I attach the karabiner directly to the eyelet (on the fixed bracket part of my Witter detachable swan neck towbar) then it could almost drag on the ground- so I take a single loop around the towball
stem and then clip the (heavy duty) karabiner to the eyelet on the bracket. Is this ok or not? I don't seem to be able to find a shorter cable- happy to change it if I could get a shorter one!0 -
I've ordered an Alko cable with carabiner clip. Next task will be to work out how to attach it to the van, although I doubt that this will be 'rocket science'.
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Fellow members please check out ebay for replacement breakaway cables with carabiners, they can be purchased for far less than £8:50 which Alko are charging some even come with free postage. I purchased 1 over 12 months ago and they are excellent quality.
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I wonder if this was a fixed bracket. There is a school of thought that the cable should not be fitted on the tow ball as in theory this can come loose but should be fitted to the towbar fame instead. I am not aware of any legal basis for issuing a notice
of the type suggested and it is something the club could usefully take up with the Agency.0 -
Flatcoat. The power to stop anybody from driving, or more appropriately the prohibition notice issued for the vehicle, comes from
section 69 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.0 -
Flatcoat. The power to stop anybody from driving, or more appropriately the prohibition notice issued for the vehicle, comes from
section 69 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.They may have the power but they do have to be able to jjustify the decision and if they are wrong could be in trouble.
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Fellow members please check out ebay for replacement breakaway cables with carabiners, they can be purchased for far less than £8:50 which Alko are charging some even come with free postage. I purchased 1 over 12 months ago and they are excellent quality.
Yes, I saw those, but I thought for the sake of a fiver extra I might just as well get the genuine Alko item. Just reviewed fitting advice from old postings found via Google, seems straight forward, just a matter of squeezing a hook shape closed, using Mole
grips.0 -
Flatcoat. The power to stop anybody from driving, or more appropriately the prohibition notice issued for the vehicle, comes from
section 69 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.They may have the power but they do have to be able to jjustify the decision and if they are wrong could be in trouble.
I agree totally as I mentioned in an earlier comment. How many people know they can make a
complaint against a DVSA officer?0
