DVSA issuing illegal breakaway cable notices
Comments
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Thanks Catherinef for swift reply ,my t / bar is a factory fitted one , may well be a Westfalia one. Still raining so not checked as yet. I am sure i am correct in stating the cable must be fitted so a direct pull is achieved, this cannot happen if the
attachment is somewhat off the centre line.Write your comments here... We had a 330D and the factory fit bar was Westfalia. So I'd hazard a guess yours will be. The only bit I'm not familiar with is the electrical aspect. On a non electric one there is a locking knob on the right and the eyelet
on our Q3 is above the knob.0 -
My previous car was a BMW 320 touring , that had a factory fit bar which was a Westfalia , that was detachable but the elecric one on the X3 swings out when operated. Never saw any reference to any cable attachment points in the tow bar instructions with the 320. PS still raining. Thanks again for reply.
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Did this new(and stupid) law come from Brussels???????.The ajority of break away cables fitted to caravans are of a design that require the cable clip to be looped back onto the cable.The majority of towbars are not fitted with brackets that will allow this!We have had this argument before and it was agreed that the cable could be looped over the neck of the towball in the absence of any other suitable attachment point!The cable should have a straight pull and not be too short or too long when attached! In 30 years of fitting towbars and a further 16 years involved with caravans I have never seen or heard of a broken towball although I admit that towball fixings might not have been correctly tightened or the caravan might not have been correctly attached
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Sweetman,
I bow to your expertise nd experience in this field why do you think that this law came from the EU. Is Westminster not capable of passing or failing to pass laws that make no sense at all.
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Evening all,
I've forwarded this discussion to the technical department and asked them to comment. Please remember that they will need to read this and discuss with other parties so a response may not appear quickly.
Dave
Dave...Thanks for forwarding to the tech dept. For clarification, my towing vehicle is a Mitsubishi Outlander GX3 with a Witter detachable tow ball. It does have a dedicated fixing point, although as I previously mentioned I was not aware of this as it was
obscured by plastic bumper. I am happy to email a copy of the "Roadworthiness Prohibition Notice" and the "Removal of Prohibition Notice" to the tech dept for their information. The inspectors were pulling over every caravan irrespective of "type" of tow
ball. They were just telling everyone that looping around the tow ball is illegal.0 -
I think it boils down to the op looping over the ball insted of using the fixing point, therefore incorrect. Reading these threads I have checked and I have a fixing hole never noticed in the last two years.
http://i.emlfiles1.com/cmpdoc/9/7/3/2/4/files/291173_break-cable-trade-2pp-a4.pdf?dm_i=WP7,3DKEV,4T6BDH,C2TFG,1
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The only bit I haven't been able to check is if the hole on our Westfalia bar is big enough to have the standard Swift clip to be threaded through.
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Like a couple of others on this thread, I have a miniscule fixing hole which is obviously unsuitable for fixing the breakaway cable. I too have fitted a shackle to the hole and thread the cable through this.
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We have had 3 vehicles fitted with Witter swan neck removables. All have had a fixing hole alongside where you plug the ball in. It is just sufficient with our current Bailey to get the supplied hook through. It can be difficult on occasions, particularly when hooking up at an angle. It is often fiddly to disengage and requires a bit of wrestling. We have always used it though, as I understood that this was required if one was available.
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What a load of codswallop by the DVSA and they were certainly trying it on. How can not complying with non existent legilsation void your insurance and even if there was legisation how would it void your insurance as third party woudl remain in place?
That would mean that any one speeding woudl have their insurance voided.Was the inspector in cuckoo land or on another planet? I would really like to see the legisation that they used to impose the prohibition.
I am wondering if the OP can give us the term used by the DVSA to issue the prohibition notice as it should be on the notice?
We have a detachable and there is no place or fixing point on it that we can use. We cannot even use the towbar itself due to the distance from the caravan drawbar to the towbar itself.
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Might it be that the inspector is using the Road Vehicles (Con & Use) Regs to infer that this practice is illegal, i.e. vehicle in a dangerous condition?
Interestingly, here's an older thread on exactly the same topic. Take a look at the post on page 4 by "CarrieMay", a retired police officer. Surprisingly, the CC never came on that thread.
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Might it be that the inspector is using the Road Vehicles (Con & Use) Regs to infer that this practice is illegal, i.e. vehicle in a dangerous condition?
Interestingly,
here's an older thread on exactly the same topic. Take a look at the post on page 4 by "CarrieMay", a retired police officer. Surprisingly, the CC never came on that thread.Interesting comment, but he does not state whether he was in forensics or just an ordinary police officer. I think i would be more concerned about the legality of issuing the notice and what legislation is being used as cannot see how it can be a vehicle
in a dangerous condition.If they allowed the OP to proceed with towingt he caravan, the DVSA themselves are condoning the act therefore the OP cannot be prosecuted.
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It'll be interesting to see what the Club's comments are on this one.
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I have been to our Jeep which had a towbar fitted in about 2006 and there are no fixing points however on the bottom of the bracket that holds the detachable arm are two slots hardly wide enough for the clip to pass through even if the cable was long enough
to reach and chances of looping it back almost zero. So where does that leave us as legilsation is only effective from the date it si passed by parliament?0 -
The only bit I haven't been able to check is if the hole on our Westfalia bar is big enough to have the standard Swift clip to be threaded through.
Unlikely that you will be able to thread it through but relatively simple and cheap to change the breakaway cable to the type designed for direct attachement. Buy direct from ALKO online shop to be sure you get the correct specification. You can compare
the two types on their website. The direct attachmemnt version only costs £8.50, cant understand why it is not fitted to caravans as standard.http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/products/caravan-accessories-1/breakaway_cables.html?price=368
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What a load of codswallop by the DVSA and they were certainly trying it on. How can not complying with non existent legilsation void your insurance and even if there was legisation how would it void your insurance as third party woudl remain in place?
That would mean that any one speeding woudl have their insurance voided.Was the inspector in cuckoo land or on another planet? I would really like to see the legisation that they used to impose the prohibition.
I am wondering if the OP can give us the term used by the DVSA to issue the prohibition notice as it should be on the notice?
We have a detachable and there is no place or fixing point on it that we can use. We cannot even use the towbar itself due to the distance from the caravan drawbar to the towbar itself.
The document is titled 'Roadworthiness Prohibition Notice" Road Traffic Act 1988 - PG9. After Driver details and caravan make/model/Vin No the next section is titled
"Defects" with the wording "The defects leading to the prohibition are shown below"...in the next box is the
Severity in my case 'D' and in the next box is actual defect..ie
Breakaway Cable :- Missing / Not Connected to the towing vehicle correctly.
ie in my case looped around the towball.In the next section is the wording of the prohibition: "I hereby prohibit all driving and towing of this vehicle on public roads. This prohibition comes into force on 11/07/2016 at 10:12 and will stay in force until it is removed by prior appointment
at: CONTACT LOCAL DVSA OFFICE:The inspector then asked me to connect the cable to the eyelet fixing point of the towing bracket...after which he issued me with a document titled " Removal of Roadworthness Prohibition " ...
As we had just driven up through France, crossed on the overnight ferry from Caen to Portsmouth and still had 200 miles to Home...I wasnt in the mood for challenging any of his other comments re insurance / caravan clubs should be doing more to make their
members aware of this issue...etc etc...Incidentally, as IanH mentions above, one caravan was over on the noseweight but I didn't hang around to see the outcome...Unfortunately because I was well within the weight limit, it has given my OH an excuse to load
more of her wardrobe in future !!!0 -
The document is titled 'Roadworthiness Prohibition Notice" Road Traffic Act 1988 - PG9. After Driver details and caravan make/model/Vin No the next section is titled
"Defects" with the wording "The defects leading to the prohibition are shown below"...in the next box is the
Severity in my case 'D' and in the next box is actual defect..ie
Breakaway Cable :- Missing / Not Connected to the towing vehicle correctly.
ie in my case looped around the towball.In the next section is the wording of the prohibition: "I hereby prohibit all driving and towing of this vehicle on public roads. This prohibition comes into force on 11/07/2016 at 10:12 and will stay in force until it is removed by prior appointment
at: CONTACT LOCAL DVSA OFFICE:The inspector then asked me to connect the cable to the eyelet fixing point of the towing bracket...after which he issued me with a document titled " Removal of Roadworthness Prohibition " ...
As we had just driven up through France, crossed on the overnight ferry from Caen to Portsmouth and still had 200 miles to Home...I wasnt in the mood for challenging any of his other comments re insurance / caravan clubs should be doing more to make their
members aware of this issue...etc etc...Incidentally, as IanH mentions above, one caravan was over on the noseweight but I didn't hang around to see the outcome...Unfortunately because I was well within the weight limit, it has given my OH an excuse to load
more of her wardrobe in future !!!Strange that they do not mention the legislation that applies to allow them to issue a prohibition notice however as you say you don't want to argue and then for them to find other things wrong if any.
I hope that you do pursue thsi with the CC to get a definite answer as the advice posted on the CC now appears to be incorrect.
In addition, it appears that many caravan manufacturers or actually dealerships are selling caravans not suitable for the towing vehicle due to the type of towbar fitted. I wonder how many dealerships also loop the cable over the towball when towing however
I supposed that they have a fixed tow as opposed to a detachable.0 -
The document is titled 'Roadworthiness Prohibition Notice" Road Traffic Act 1988 - PG9. After Driver details and caravan make/model/Vin No the next section is titled "Defects" with the wording "The defects leading to the prohibition are shown below"...in the next box is the Severity in my case 'D' and in the next box is actual defect..ie Breakaway Cable :- Missing / Not Connected to the towing vehicle correctly. ie in my case looped around the towball.
In the next section is the wording of the prohibition: "I hereby prohibit all driving and towing of this vehicle on public roads. This prohibition comes into force on 11/07/2016 at 10:12 and will stay in force until it is removed by prior appointment at: CONTACT LOCAL DVSA OFFICE:
The inspector then asked me to connect the cable to the eyelet fixing point of the towing bracket...after which he issued me with a document titled " Removal of Roadworthness Prohibition " ...
As we had just driven up through France, crossed on the overnight ferry from Caen to Portsmouth and still had 200 miles to Home...I wasnt in the mood for challenging any of his other comments re insurance / caravan clubs should be doing more to make their members aware of this issue...etc etc...Incidentally, as IanH mentions above, one caravan was over on the noseweight but I didn't hang around to see the outcome...Unfortunately because I was well within the weight limit, it has given my OH an excuse to load more of her wardrobe in future !!!
It strikes me that the DVSA inspector was putting the law in his own hands. In view of the fact that quite a number of towbars don't have a dedicated anchorage point where one has no option but to loop the cable around the towbar, he is applying double standards, which is both unjust and unfair. In other words, how is 'incorrect connection' of the cable to the towbar defined in a way that applies to both designs with and without a dedicated anchorage point?
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Just checked my BMW X3 with electrically operated swan neck t / bar , there is definately no fixing hole to connect the cable .
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Interesting one this , i am sure in the CC handbook there is reference to looping the cable over the swan neck t/bar.Will check my 2012 BMW X 3 with the electric swivel out t/bar when it stops pouring down to see if there is any other fixing point unless someone can advise in the meantime
If it's a Westfalia, have a look above right of the swan neck. It could be possibly hidden by the bumper valence.
sorry posted in wrong thread
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Land Rover kindly supply TWO attachment points on the chassis of the Discovery but the snap hook on the cable is too small to hook on and two big to pass through. I use a small shackle to join them together so it looks as though I am in line for a notice as well.
I also do this on my Discovery with a fixed bar. Is this wrong?. I have a shackle through the fixing point on the Discovery and connect the breakaway cable to that???????
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Handbook states if it is a fixed towbar you can loop over ball it detachable seek guidance
GTP towbar was detachable so it could have been wrong
The inspectors didnt differentiate between 'fixed' or 'detacheable' towball...the point they were 'selling' was that looping just wasn't acceptable under any circumstances. I can only say it as it happened. I do hope the club's tech/legal departments put
out a clarification statement both on this forum and on the main web site/magazine.0 -
I was nonplussed to read this thread, on two counts.
Firstly, that the advice I'd been given, by both the supplying caravan dealer and the Caravan Club towing course tutor, was that it was permissible to loop the breakaway cable around my swan neck tow ball, in the absence of a dedicated eye. This was with
my Citroen, which had a Brink detachable towing hook.Secondly, that civilian inspectors are apparently empowered to take a vehicle off the road. I thought that only the police had the authority to do this. I know that the MOT inspector can declare your vehicle unroadworthy, but he can't stop you from driving
off.i now have a Ford, with a factory fitted Westfalia retractable swan neck tow ball. No where in the supplied instructions does it mention a break away cable attachment, and I have been continuing with the practice of loopin the cable around the swan neck,
clipping the Bailey supplied dog clip back onto the cable.However, this afternoon I stuck my head under the back of the car, and discovered an oval hole in the tow ball mechanism, to which I guess I could attach the breakaway cable.
Do I need a different cable ? It looks as though the dog clip might just pass through the hole, to clip back onto itself.
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I was nonplussed to read this thread, on two counts.
Firstly, that the advice I'd been given, by both the supplying caravan dealer and the Caravan Club towing course tutor, was that it was permissible to loop the breakaway cable around my swan neck tow ball, in the absence of a dedicated eye. This was with
my Citroen, which had a Brink detachable towing hook.Secondly, that civilian inspectors are apparently empowered to take a vehicle off the road. I thought that only the police had the authority to do this. I know that the MOT inspector can declare your vehicle unroadworthy, but he can't stop you from driving
off.i now have a Ford, with a factory fitted Westfalia retractable swan neck tow ball. No where in the supplied instructions does it mention a break away cable attachment, and I have been continuing with the practice of loopin the cable around the swan neck,
clipping the Bailey supplied dog clip back onto the cable.However, this afternoon I stuck my head under the back of the car, and discovered an oval hole in the tow ball mechanism, to which I guess I could attach the breakaway cable.
Do I need a different cable ? It looks as though the dog clip might just pass through the hole, to clip back onto itself.
A similar size hole( newly discovered) to mine...the cable doesn't have to go through but simply clip on...a method I used years ago with a witter fixed towball on a Freelander.... But was told by a dealer technician(??) that the snap on clip at the end
of the breakaway cable would fail and should be looped around the ball.Over to you CC for clarification.
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