MMM biased against A Frames
What is it with MMM and A Frames they continually push towards trailers. The article in the September edition Page 165 is so technically wrong, no mention of Armitage adding additional front bar to the car and incorrect that Towbars to Towcars alter the
braking system on the Towcars, they add a system which applies the brakes but works in parallel to the braking system so there is no modification in any way.
So many take MMM as being 100% factual and take it as gospel, surely they should be getting their facts right and be a latte more balanced.
i see more and more motor homes towing large cars on trailers which must be above the max towing capacity of the vehicle but no mention the weight of the trailer should be taken into consideration as well.
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I no longer read the MMM as over the last couple of years it is almost all adverts for very expensive commercial UK caravan parks some of which are more than 70% static vans, and their testing is biased towards European manufactured motorhomes. Now...A-Frames, they are a very sensible way to take your car with you on holiday (in the UK !) I towed my Toyota Yaris perfectly safely for 4 years, with a Car-a-Tow, overrun braked frame, same braking system as ALL caravans, and the same system as a car trailer, whats wrong with that ??
You hit the nail on the head, I could have not used a trailer if I had wanted to, because my motorhomes max tow weight would not allow it. And i suspect many are towing trailers loaded with cars which are over their tow limit.
I wouldnt chance towing with an A- frame in Europe though, they have strange rules which dont allow vehicles to tow other vehicles except on a trailer.
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I've pondered the A-frame idea for years now, the problem is that in the UK A-frames are not illegal, probably, and that is pretty much the state of play. Abroad they are not illegal, maybe, except in Spain where they are just illegal. The only positive
legal status is a trailer, everywhere.I'm not sayng I agree with this situation, but contrairy to the sellers statements, A-frames are not legal, they're just not illegal. In the UK there is a difference unfortunately.
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My wife and I went for an A frame and tow an Aygo. Had it all fitted by tow bars for tow cars at Grimsby this July and I am delighted with the result. (Yes other makes are available) Firstly their product is very well made and has a secondary braking device
fitted to the car and it works well. Just finishing 10 days in Scotland and the system has performed very well indeed. For me, and I have towed trailers in the past, the A frame solution is great.Speak to an A framer on site as I did, they all say it is a great solution.
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Having read the article in MMM I am not sure where the bias is? They merely pointed out the difficullties of using an A Frame in some countries, and possible mechanical problems and advised using a trailer as it would cover all eventualities. Is that not fair advice?
David
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Having read the article in MMM I am not sure where the bias is? They merely pointed out the difficullties of using an A Frame in some countries, and possible mechanical problems and advised using a trailer as it would cover all eventualities. Is that not
fair advice?David
I read it to be quite bias and lacking technical research. They make no mention of modification to the vehicle which some of the older mechanical systems entail which will definitely have an impact on the n cap rating of the car. The reference they make
to the vehicle braking system being modified in my mind infers a change to the manufacturers spec rather than just attaching a cable to the brake pedal. Other articles MMM have done on a frames were even more biased. I cannot fathom out why they take this
stance. It would be good if they did a feature on a couple of the a frame manufacturers to give them a voice and let them give there opinion.0 -
Did we meet and discuss the merits of the TB2TC system at Stonehaven CC Site. I tow the white Mercedes SLK
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Hi Peedee,
Yes, I have the Towbars 2 Towcars system. I have had two cars converted by them over the last 5 years and must have towed around 70,000 miles with the system. The only issue I have had was when I reversed over the electric cable completely shredding it.
I was in Perth, Scotland and called TB2TC at 2pm and a new cable arrived at 9am the next day.i was in Grimsby last month visiting family and called into see the new premises. They have expanded into a great new facility and have a small team. It impressed me a great deal to see the new apprentices they have taken on, credit to them for that and
that alone makes me want to support them.Anyway, getting back to the system, I would highly recommend for ease of use and actual operability. Give them a call they are extremely professional, helpful and very knowledgable in there field.
stewart
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I too have the TB2TC system and previously had the car a tow system. The TB2TC system is much easier to use and the car looks neater when the A-frame is not attatched. Also it has been designed to allow the A-frame to stand up so that the car can be manoeuvred
with it still attached.
The problem I have with organisations recommending the use of a trailer is that they never advise what to be aware of if you choose to go down that route. Whilst the GTW is important the biggest worry is the rear axle weight. The motorhome has to carry the
noseweight and, as the tow ball is a long way from the rear axle, the weight imposed upon it is much greater. That weight also has to be deducted from the MH payload. From my observations of vin plates it appears that when the MH gets a chassis upgrade the
GTW remains the same, so, the higher the GVW the less you can tow. Some tag axle MHs don't have the GTW to tow a car on a trailer and owners have to be careful in their choice of car if A-frame towing.0 -
I've pondered the A-frame idea for years now, the problem is that in the UK A-frames are not illegal, probably, and that is pretty much the state of play. Abroad they are not illegal, maybe, except in Spain where they are just illegal. The only positive legal status is a trailer, everywhere.
I'm not sayng I agree with this situation, but contrairy to the sellers statements, A-frames are not legal, they're just not illegal. In the UK there is a difference unfortunately.
Write your comments here...The DVSA or whatever they call themselves today, recently put out a notification, last November i believe, stating that the law has NOT changed, and that A-Frames remain legal in the UK,(at least not proven illegal by precedant) overrun braking systems remain legal (otherwise thousands of caravans and trailers would be illegal!), so carry on A-framing. However in the rest of the EU, Towing a motor vehicle with another motor vehicle IS illegal, with a tow rope, a towing pole or an A-Frame , trailers or purpose built recovery vehicles only. We will soon NOT be in the EU, so we can forget their odd laws for use in the UK.
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Please let's not start a debate on the legalities of A Frames. Just to touch on something that has not been discussed is the looming Brexit and what it will mean for us using A Frames. Nothing is quite clear about anything relating to our exit however, does
it matter, We travel in Europe under the Vienna Convention on road transport 1968 which is a UN Mandate which pre-dates the EC and stands above any local legislation the only exception being Spain who did not ratify the original agreement0 -
Practically speaking, just covered 3,500 miles across 10 countries in and out of the EU and other than a lot of fellow German motorhomers wanting the details of where it was bought and lots of confusion trying to be honest at tollbooths and trying to pay
for the car (on most occasions we gave up!), we had not trouble at all!.You come into contact with a lot of police and customs officers at borders and tollgtes, never any negative interest.
I went with a car-a-tow system and found the bike rack a very useful storing place when not in use!!!.
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Practically speaking, just covered 3,500 miles across 10 countries in and out of the EU and other than a lot of fellow German motorhomers wanting the details of where it was bought and lots of confusion trying to be honest at tollbooths and trying to pay
for the car (on most occasions we gave up!), we had not trouble at all!.You come into contact with a lot of police and customs officers at borders and tollgtes, never any negative interest.
I went with a car-a-tow system and found the bike rack a very useful storing place when not in use!!!.
Thanks Craig, good to hear from someone with actual hard evidence and experience. I have an a frame and you have helped convince me about taking the car to Europe.
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We stopped using our A frame abroad after being stopped twice, once in Germany and again in Belgium. Neither times were we fined but on both occasions it was made clear that it is illegal to do so. We have met many that do still tow using A frames some of
them French
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To get things straight, there's no law anywhere, neither in the UK, in Spain, nor anywhere else, that specifically regulates A-frames. Technically, an A-frame plus car as a complete unit is treated exactly the same as a trailer, therefore so long as it complies with all rules and regulations that apply to trailers, it's not an issue. It has just become more complicated since the need for trailers to have whole vehicle type approval was introduced a couple of years ago. To my knowledge no A-frame/car combination has ever been type approved as a trailer. It appears, however, that the UK is not enforcing the type approval requirement for A-frames, but has left it to the courts to make a ruling. Outside the UK one is not necessarily that tolerant and certainly not in those countries where trailers have to be registered, taxed and insured in their own right (which is most of them).
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Just as an aside, I did take with me the manufacturers information in each language laminated "just in case"..
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Choose a trailer every time. Why risk the chance of having your holiday spoiled when on the continent. No need to have the car adapted, just drive on to the trailer fit the tie downs hitch up and go. Use twin axle trailers as they are stable and inexpensive.
K
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Choose a trailer every time. Why risk the chance of having your holiday spoiled when on the continent. No need to have the car adapted, just drive on to the trailer fit the tie downs hitch up and go. Use twin axle trailers as they are stable and inexpensive.
K
That's precisely the decision I came to many years ago, also a trailer is much easier to reverse. However I admit that I still like the idea of an A-frame.
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Choose a trailer every time. Why risk the chance of having your holiday spoiled when on the continent. No need to have the car adapted, just drive on to the trailer fit the tie downs hitch up and go. Use twin axle trailers as they are stable and inexpensive.
K
Why take a car on the continent ? Unless you have a whopping great RV I cannot see the point.
peedee
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Choose a trailer every time. Why risk the chance of having your holiday spoiled when on the continent. No need to have the car adapted, just drive on to the trailer fit the tie downs hitch up and go. Use twin axle trailers as they are stable and inexpensive.
K
Unfortunately, it's a little more complex than that. Firstly, I agree with Peedee and very rarely take my car to Europe, no need on Aires and Stellplatz and would be impossible with a car on a trailer as no where to put trailer. With A Frame I just leave
car in a local street with the A Frame in the boot.Anyway, getting back to trailers and especially twin axle is the physical weight of the trailer, add that to the weight of the car and very few larger motor homes can legally tow them with most cars.
i have had 3 tag axle motor homes and they were all seriously restricted on towing capacity.
It is much easier when changing car to just stick it on the trailer. Towbars to Towcars do provide a swap over service and can change it over to new car a very reasonable price.
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On the Continent one would always have to rely on how lenient or tolerant the police are. One may be lucky and get by, but also unlucky and run into problems the very first time. Only you can decide whether the risk is worth taking.
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I have never had an issue in Europe and I covered a lot of miles and have heard no adverse reports of others facing issues. The issues people are facing in my opinion are exclusive to Spain who clearly do not accept the use. Has anyone had issues anywhere
other than Spain?0
