Is driving in France the pleasure it once was.
Having just returned from a 5 week tour of France I was struck by the increase in the number of traffic calming measures that have been installed on their Nationals over the past few years. I am very familiar with France having lived there for 6 years, but it is 2 years since I travelled the length of the country. Almost every junction now has a roundabout with rumble strips as you approach. Every town/village has steep speed bumps; my ex neighbour had to write to his local Marie to get them to make the bumps gentler as his car (Skoda Octavia) was grounding as he went over them. And finally, there has been a massive increase in the growth of 30kph zones, again, nearly every hamlet/village/town has them and not necessarily near schools. There seems to be no consistency in where these limits are; for example, near Beziers the village of Cebazan is limited to 30ks even though the road through it is straight and there is no school, there are also zig zag obstructions: the next village, Puisserguier, is dangerous with tight bends yet the limit is 50ks! The small hamlet in which we used to live has a single track approaching it yet there is a 50k sign - you can not even drive at 15 kph! I tried to stick to nationals on my holiday but gave up when I had any distance to travel as it was so hard driving on these roads and it played havoc with the fuel consumption; years ago it used to be a pleasure. Driving on the Autoroutes was, of course, an expensive pleasure.
Am I the only one to feel this way?
Comments
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The French had/has such an appalling record for road safety that it became politically toxic to allow it to continue.
The measures will probably reduce the accident rate but at the cost of additional inconvenience .
These new measures further reinforce my personal choice of using the autoroute where possible
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Yes many roundabouts and calming measures but still prefer the 'nationals' because I'm in no hurry and like rural roads, villages and towns. I have all the time in the world and the journey is as much a part of the holiday as the destination.
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Yes, there are definitely lots more traffic calming measures, and no consistency in applying them. I think it's down to the Marie of individual communes, because in our area it varies so much.
I have mentioned that a favourite route is now 'traffic-calmed' with chicanes, rumble strips, speed humps, and roundabouts, and whilst it hasn't yet become a pain we have found ourselves using the autoroutes more now that we have the caravan safely in storage in the south, so the costs are not so great with a solo car.
You may also notice that some National roads are now D roads again. The road between Beziers and Carcassonne is now a 'yellow' route on Michelin maps, and therefore no longer appears on the signs on the Beziers bypass! You have to be a local to know which road to take, which is crazy. I think they are trying to keep traffic to the autoroutes.
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I suspect the same thing happens in France that happens here. The National Government have a campaign, in this instance Road Safety, and they provide the local councils with money to put it into action. As a result you get all sorts of different interupations of what should be done. I wonder if they have looked at the statistics properly as surely most fatal accidents happen between towns rather than in them?
David
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There are still delights.
The D813 going north west from Agen last week was a pleasure, with early morning mist rising on the Garonne. No humps and no roundabouts there. The D769 from north to south across Brittany - from Roscoff towards Lorient over the moorlands is another regular
pleasure. Not even traffic there. And the D1075 going south from Grenoble towards Sisteron with the astonishing view of Mont Aiguille on the right hand side never fails to please. No villages, no delays and no tolls.So pick your road.
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I agree it is happening, it makes long distance routing for us sufficiently unattractive when towing that we use primarily Auto routes. The endless speed variations on these local roads take their toll on fuel consumption so in part offsets the Autoroute
cost.
I expect that is what it is all about, making local routes less attractive and moving things to the Autoroutes; I can think of a much more persuasive way of doing that. We often have cause to comment that it seems only British vehicles are paying for this Autoroute,
thats when you see another vehicle!0 -
Ocsid, the main motivation for all this work is to reduce the death rate on the roads in France and it seems to be working. Understand, though not sure, that the Maries were given a put of euros to spend on calmimg measures but no guidance so up each Marie
to do what they want and there are an awful lot of Maries in France!They are going to dual all of the Beziers By Pass soon (according to the signs), a much needed improvement. Beziers - Carcassonne go on the D11/D5 via Montady, Homps and Trebes; there are some nice places to have a drink by the canal at Homps. Treat yourself
to Sunday lunch at La Croisade by the canal (booking necessary), or Le Terminus at Cruzy. At Trebes they no longer allow Campers to park by the canal, in fact no parking all the way up to the lock. The Neuf Ecluses at Beziers are being upgraded, the canal
is still open there but you cannot walk by the locks at the moment - shame, the work should be completed next year. They have made a new car park and walkway(wheelchar accessible) up to the canal which takes you, or will when the work is finished, to the
top of the locks - free this year but a likely candidate for parking charges!.0 -
It may also be to try to diswaid HGVs from useing them,as there are so many more on all roads,from eastern eu
euro tunnel carried several thousand extra HGVs in the 3months to end of june
I think JBV66 is quite correct. HGVs have become an even worse problem in recent years for many villages and I think communes are doing whatever they can to discourage them or at least slow them right down. Cambes near Figeac is a prime example where they used to roar through on a fairly straight road. There are now 30kph signs and sleeping policement all through the village. Do any more than 30kph and you will ground your vehicle.
Personally, as someone who lives in France, I welcome the fact that the French Government do appear to put local residents' and pedestrian needs above vehicle users in towns and villages. I wish the UK Government would do more of the same.
PS: We have also seen a massive increase in traffic using the autoroutes in the past 11 years we have been in France. The route from Toulouse to Chateauroux and onward is now often nose to tail around some of the towns it bypasses.0 -
This is something that has been commented on quite a few times when posters discuss the merits of Aoutoroute V Other roads. Like others we tend to use Autoroutes, dual N roads and singe carraigeway on occaision.
Cost is an obvious factor but the main reason is the increasing use of traffic calming which,whilst being done for safety reasons,makes towing a real pain and, as mentioned above,also plays havoc with the fuel consumption. It maybe that it is not so bad
if not towing?I always look at the routes I am considering on Google maps to get an idea of how much of an N road is dual,how many villages etc. This year we had a nice surprise when the expected roundabout ahead on the N249 near Cholet turned into brand new shiny tarmac
dual carraigeway. We also saw that the N10 between Poitier and Angouleme is being dualled so there are still ways to enjoy driving without the traffic controlling or the tolls.0 -
Humps affect smaller vehicles like caravans far more than they do HGVs, so one ponders the rationale if the intention is to slow them. Chicanes would be more effective.
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Humps affect smaller vehicles like caravans far more than they do HGVs, so one ponders the rationale if the intention is to slow them. Chicanes would be more effective.
...Depends how wide they are, the ones in our area are a mixture of "lumps" that "catch" cars but not buses or any vehicle with wider axles(inc our suv
)
and full width that "catch everything0 -
Had to smile when I saw this thread. We are at our current site for the next 5 days or so and were talking today of how we intend to get to St.Malo next Thursday. We had intended to travel north on the D2020 to Orleans and pick up the N road to Le Mans.
The village of Nouan-le-Fuzilier are not satisfied with a couple of the "take extra extra care" type of speed bump. Oh no, they' ve installed 5! We'll investigate the D roads to Blois over the next few days.Can understand their reasons but the French still drive like lunatics most of the time although I have noticed an improvement in allowing pedestrians to cross the road.
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Agree with all the above which is why we favour Autoroutes but we went "off piste" a lot this year. I sometimes forget that every small village has a 50kph (31 mph) speed limit and is usually not signed; the only indication is the village name on a white background with red border. I found the SatNav useful as it indicates the current speed limit and this changes orange if you exceed it.
JVB, can you explain the reference to "dents" and new cars, or was it in jest?
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The first time went to France by car, heading for Spain, the roads all had a steep camber, there were no dual carriageways, villages were driven through almost every few minutes with no by-passes around them, vehicles could join the main road from the right without stopping and had right of way, many elderly decrepit twenty to thirty years old cars and lorries without any type of MOT certification were everywhere wheezing and coughing along, road signs very virtually non existent, fuel stations were only forecourts in front of shops and no, this wasn't pre-War.
Yes, traffic in France is much better than it was then but the amount of vehicles on the roads, especially Motorhomes and Caravans, has increased dramatically in the last few years but is still nowhere near as bad as in the UK.
Count your blessing when you go to France and experience the far superior driving conditions compared to this country – I do.
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Agree with all the above which is why we favour Autoroutes but we went "off piste" a lot this year. I sometimes forget that every small village has a 50kph (31 mph) speed limit and is usually not signed; the only indication is the village name on a white
background with red border. I found the SatNav useful as it indicates the current speed limit and this changes orange if you exceed it.JVB, can you explain the reference to "dents" and new cars, or was it in jest?
..The "dents" in French cars are I think, a status symbol,
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The first time went to France by car, heading for Spain, the roads all had a steep camber, there were no dual carriageways, villages were driven through almost every few minutes with no by-passes around them, vehicles could join the main
road from the right without stopping and had right of way, many elderly decrepit twenty to thirty years old cars and lorries without any type of MOT certification were everywhere wheezing and coughing along, road signs very virtually non existent, fuel stations
were only forecourts in front of shops and no, this wasn't pre-War.Yes, traffic in France is much better than it was then but the amount of vehicles on the roads, especially Motorhomes and Caravans, has increased dramatically in the last few years but is still nowhere near as bad as in the UK.
Count your blessing when you go to France and experience the far superior driving conditions compared to this country – I do.
..I think most of us would love to have the space of France with about the same population
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Agree with all the above which is why we favour Autoroutes but we went "off piste" a lot this year.
I sometimes forget that every small village has a 50kph (31 mph) speed limit and is usually not signed; the only indication is the village name on a white background with red border. I found the SatNav useful as it indicates the current speed
limit and this changes orange if you exceed it.I always thought the village signs at both ends did indicate the boundaries of the 50km speed limit, unless there are signs showing a higher or lower limit. In recent years there have been more "rappel" signs appearing which can only be a good thing.
David
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If the object of all these measures is to increase toll road use and I think it is then it has succeeded where I am concerned. We find ourselves using them more every year in spite of a reluctance to pay . I never bought into the theory that savings on fuel would go anyway near paying for tolls but the proliferation of the 30km speed limits particularly make covering long distances hard work.
I only said:
“The endless speed variations on these local roads take their toll on fuel consumption so in part offsets the Autoroute cost”.
But just for interest I decided to look at the sort of numbers involved:
In my opinion as a ball park one could with my Disco be saving about 10% on fuel by free running on a motorway as compared to the fluctuating speeds of N type routes their, towns, traffic lights, crossing, junctions, roundabouts and inclines included. It assumes I would keep to 90 kph, about 56 mph on the autoroutes; in my case where a D4 towing is as rewarding as it gets. I tow a 1900 kg SA van.
Looking at Ouisteham to LeMans some 173miles with 161 of Autoroute and a type two charge for tolls of 15.3 Euro. Over the 173 I could see 25 mpg on a good day so would use 7 gallons, ie about 32 litre. If I had saved 10% that would be a 3.2 litre saving, about 3.5 Euros worth.
That's is going to save me over 20 % of that route's toll charges.
All I accept guess work and other routes could be more of less punishing, but using Autoroutes might not be costing one quite what the toll ticket says.
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We are just back from five weeks in France. We certainly noticed the extra traffic calming measures - speed bumps and chicanes but we especially noticed that the Frech seem to have developed a love affair with roundabouts with a huge increase in their number.
I think that this is a farly new phenonomen. Consequently, the French do not seem to know how to drive round them with erratic signalling, last minute changes of direction, driving too fast and wildly differing lines.This is a disappointment since, in general, I find most French drivers (but not young men and women) to be pretty reasonable and courteous.
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