Electricity meters
Comments
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There have been many posts on this subject and although in principle I favour metered electricity, in practice this is difficult and expensive for the Club to do. So, despite what I have said in the past I am broadly in favour of retaining the present fixed
fee, but, and it's a big but, why does the EHU have to provide 16 (?) amps? As a result we have vans/motorhomes with electric hobs and people using auxiliary heating appliances and even electric cookers and BBQs. When we go abroad the maximum is usually 6
amps (certainly on ACSI sites) and in Italy 4 amps is common. I know that some sites can supply 10 amps but that is not the norm. I would rather the Club retain the fixed fee but reduce the amperage available.0 -
There have been many posts on this subject and although in principle I favour metered electricity, in practice this is difficult and expensive for the Club to do. So, despite what I have said in the past I am broadly in favour of retaining the present fixed
fee, but, and it's a big but, why does the EHU have to provide 16 (?) amps? As a result we have vans/motorhomes with electric hobs and people using auxiliary heating appliances and even electric cookers and BBQs. When we go abroad the maximum is usually 6
amps (certainly on ACSI sites) and in Italy 4 amps is common. I know that some sites can supply 10 amps but that is not the norm. I would rather the Club retain the fixed fee but reduce the amperage available.Being slightly green tinged, I tend to agree with 10 A being a reasonable current allowance. At 16 A, there's a potential 90 units that could be used per pitch, at say £12 /day. If a site has 150 pitches that's getting on for 0.5 MW ignoring the heating
and hot water in the shower blocks etc. at the worst case. This is a not inconsiderable infrastructure requirement which has to be accommodated (and paid for)0 -
regarding the ampage, would you go to hotel chain and expect/ask the amps to be reduced? Probably not, a carvan site (club or otherwise) is really no different, it is a place where people come to have a holiday and enjoy themselves, not
a boot camp or green party offshoot rally, or a place where you have to stop using all the things you would have at home or on any other sort of holiday. If you really are that concerned then stop using
your high mpg outfit, go cycling with a tent. It is a bit hypocritical to justify using that extra fuel towing or driving a MH then say
well that's OK but using a few amp isn't.Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
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What's more there is no stipulation in the rules saying you must use all the lekky that's available. If someone's conscience pricks them, they can turn off a few gadgets. The 16A supply is there to make life easier for those who need it. Live and let live.
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Less than 16 amps is a negative that might put us off a site - more so now we are back to a caravan with Alde heating as the RV ran most things off gas anyway so we could manage with far less electricity.
Mains lights are an essential for me, and I like to be warm and comfortable and use appliances like the hairdryer if I want.
Metering would be fine - I have no problem with paying for what we use as we dont waste it, but I am on holiday and want to relax not have to do sums to add up my consumption before I can put a light on or use the microwave.
Presumably the pitch price would be reduced and electricity charged on top?
Definitely wouldnt like to see less than a 16amp supply though.
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Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
It is not about stopping people from using it, at least as far as I am concerned. Its about giving people the choice of how much or how little they want to use and paying for it accordingly. Right now I have to pay for 16 amps on Club sites whether I want
it or not.peedee
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I don't really want to see meters introduced to sites. We probably use less electricity than many others but it really doesn't bother me. I just don't want to be thinking oops that's another quid every time I use any appliance.
Interestingly, the CS we're staying on at the moment only has 10 amp supply and it seems perfectly adequate.
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Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
It is not about stopping people from using it, at least as far as I am concerned. Its about giving people the choice of how much or how little they want to use and paying for it accordingly. Right now I have to pay for 16 amps on Club sites whether I want
it or not.peedee
no you would pay the same if it was 10A, there would be a blanket avarage fee
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Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
It is not about stopping people from using it, at least as far as I am concerned. Its about giving people the choice of how much or how little they want to use and paying for it accordingly. Right now I have to pay for 16 amps on Club sites whether I want
it or not.peedee
no you would pay the same if it was 10A, there would be a blanket avarage fee
That is not the norm, where there is choice there is a price differential.
peedee
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what do you mean. a separate blanket fee for 10A and 16A?
I'm ok wuth that, but how would it be achieved on club sites?
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Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
It is not about stopping people from using it, at least as far as I am concerned. Its about giving people the choice of how much or how little they want to use and paying for it accordingly. Right now I have to pay for 16 amps on Club sites whether I want
it or not.peedee
no you would pay the same if it was 10A, there would be a blanket avarage fee
That is not the norm, where there is choice there is a price differential.
peedee
When we stayed at Uttoxeter some pitches were 16A and some were 10A. No price difference.
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Poeple have paid good serious money to own their van or motorhome with all the gadgets and devices that come with it and why should they stop using it?.
It is not about stopping people from using it, at least as far as I am concerned. Its about giving people the choice of how much or how little they want to use and paying for it accordingly. Right now I have to pay for 16 amps on Club sites whether I want
it or not.peedee
no you would pay the same if it was 10A, there would be a blanket avarage fee
That is not the norm, where there is choice there is a price differential.
peedee
When we stayed at Uttoxeter some pitches were 16A and some were 10A. No price difference.
were they marked so you could know which was which?
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Offering 6,10 and 16amp hook up for each pitch is not so practical as offering 16amp metered.
peedee
yes, but the high cost of installing meters would come from where? and how would you pay for what you've used? go and settle up as you leave?
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Ok thanks, did the 16A pitches get filled up before the others?
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I've just checked the plan and yes they did. We were quite surprised to be on a pitch near the fence.
We didn't notice the difference in pitches until much later and I don't think it was mentioned when we booked in. It wouldn't have made any difference to our choice of pitch but it looks like it did for others
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Offering 6,10 and 16amp hook up for each pitch is not so practical as offering 16amp metered.
peedee
yes, but the high cost of installing meters would come from where? and how would you pay for what you've used? go and settle up as you leave?
As someone has already pointed out it has all been said before and I am not about to repeat it all. I am not at my desktop right now but in the morning if you want a link I'll find it.
peedee
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I've just checked the plan and yes they did. We were quite surprised to be on a pitch near the fence.
We didn't notice the difference in pitches until much later and I don't think it was mentioned when we booked in. It wouldn't have made any difference to our choice of pitch but it looks like it did for others
voting with their amps? Thanks for the reply as alway JS
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Offering 6,10 and 16amp hook up for each pitch is not so practical as offering 16amp metered.
peedee
yes, but the high cost of installing meters would come from where? and how would you pay for what you've used? go and settle up as you leave?
As someone has already pointed out it has all been said before and I am not about to repeat it all. I am not at my desktop right now but in the morning if you want a link I'll find it.
peedee
that's Ok Peedee, I just wonder if they did this if at the end of the year the overall bill would be any different. With so many users it would average out to what is it is now?
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Offering 6,10 and 16amp hook up for each pitch is not so practical as offering 16amp metered.
peedee
yes, but the high cost of installing meters would come from where? and
how would you pay for what you've used? go and settle up as you leave?They had cracked that with petrol pumps at least 15 years ago in the USA and over here in the last few years. Swipe your credit card to enable the supply. So thats no technical or user issue, just a cost one.
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As someone has already pointed out it has all been said before and I am not about to repeat it all. I am not at my desktop right now but in the morning if you want a link I'll find it.
peedee
that's Ok Peedee, I just wonder if they did this if at the end of the year the overall bill would be any different. With so many users it would average out to what is it is now?
I suppose the only way to find that out is to equip a single site with a metering system and compare the results to when it didn't have metering. The general consensus from those that have fitted meters is that usage is cut, some say by as much as 50 percent!
Here are the links I did not have access to last night. The last one is worth a read if not the others.
Somewhere, maybe in one of the above threads the Club responded as follows:
Thank you to everyone for contributing to this discussion. I have spoken to colleagues regarding this thread and have a comprehensive response from Estates who share your concerns regarding electricity usage on site.
As you are aware, The Club doesn’t charge for its individual electrical usage but within pitch fees supplies use the following:
* Drinking water
* Waste disposal including motor van discharge points and caravan chemical toilet disposal
* Facilities (where included on site) hot and cold running water, heated, shower and wash facilities disabled amenities etc.
Our pitch fees are set according to cost to supply pitches on that site (including rates, maintenance, wardens and security, cleaning and grounds maintenance, etc.)
We have no written policy to reduce our energy and utility costs but on redevelopment of our facilities we ensure they meet current regulations regarding energy efficiency and being well insulated as part of our building regulations approval. We are changing lamps to LEDs and water heaters to the most efficient on the market but as it stands are unable to “manage” individual member usage at their pitch.
Without individual meters on each outlet it would be very difficult to measure each individual usage and charge accordingly. Unfortunately there are some that do leave heaters on maximum all day and night including their awning which inflates the average usage which is why a SMART metering system would be the fairest and would undoubtedly reduce our site wide electrical usage and cost to members. The Club has as part of its environmental considerations considered “SMART” metering so that each individual pays for the energy used but it was considered cost prohibitive at this current time as SMART metering requires replacing every bollard on site with individual SMART meters, a method of cashless payment and investment in software and a network of IT systems to record, charge, store and manage individual usage. This has been looked into and would cost several million pounds to install nationally.
In contrast we are frequently asked to increase our electrical capacity to each pitch to prevent constant overloading, but our 16amp supply is our only method to restrict excessive freely supplied electrical usage.
As with all electrical systems they have to be maintained and tested periodically and as a Club we test our site wide systems every year to ensure site safety, we do this very efficiently and economically and considering the vast network and usage by members it remains incredibly reliable regardless of the environment and conditions our external electrical systems operate in.
I hope this helps provide further insight into The Club’s currently policy with regards to electricity and I would like to assure you that your comments are being read and forwarded to the relevant departments and are very much valued by The Club.
I think they have looked at a Rolls Royce solution but it looks like there is no chance of metering ever making a widespread appearance on Club sites.
peedee
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Convincing post PD
. Good research.0 -
yes thanks very much, a lot of time and effort went into it.
Interesting point that people leave their heating inside caravans on maximum all day, really? Wouldn't this make the van too warm, we get too warm even in the 1kw setting at max without the thermostat. As an awning heater I do consider it wrong to leave it on when there is no one there.
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If the CC are seriously interested in reducing their on-site electricity charges, no need to faff about with meters and separate charging. The sensible answer is to reduce the output of their bollard outlets to 6 amps. across the network.
6 amps is more than sufficient to keep our leisure batteries topped up. We all have gas appliances in our units for cooking and heating.
K
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It would certainly be a cheaper solution than meters but to avoid the wardens running around all over the site to reset tripped breakers there would have to be access for the pitch occupier to reset it. Even with the best will in the world it is very easy
to trip a 6 amp breaker.peedee
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On a site in Holland we were told that as the british continually trip the 6 amp electrics there would be a charge to reset. We changed bollards 3 times one night till we sorted it out. 16 amps for me or non at all thanks.
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What is wrong with what we ahve now, I am sure like all things it evens out some poeple will use loads of electric others less so
we alll pay a fair fee for it. Same can be said for water, should we have a meter on all the taps so those who use more pay more. On many sites in the showers I have seen (not literally) people who are laready showering when I enter the block and are still
there after I have finsihsed, same with washing up, using the loo should this alos be metered?? If I I go out for the day and use the loo whilst out should I get a rebate, afterall I did not use 20 gaoolons of water to flush?Seems a lot of peole want everyone to to be like them and not accept we are all different and have different useage patterns of water, electric, sewerage etc. but want to ram their own agendas down everyones throat. The same people who tow a 1.5 tone caravan
behind a 2litre car, should htey pay more for road tax as they are making more damage to teh roads etc than someone driving a little car?We should alll be mindful of the way we use water, electric etc. as it is a precious resource but how we use it is no one elses business unles of course its round my house then as the bill payer I can moan
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What is wrong with what we ahve now, I am sure like all things it evens out some poeple will use loads of electric others less so
we alll pay a fair fee for it. Same can be said for water, should we have a meter on all the taps so those who use more pay more. On many sites in the showers I have seen (not literally) people who are laready showering when I enter the block and are still
there after I have finsihsed, same with washing up, using the loo should this alos be metered?? If I I go out for the day and use the loo whilst out should I get a rebate, afterall I did not use 20 gaoolons of water to flush?Seems a lot of peole want everyone to to be like them and not accept we are all different and have different useage patterns of water, electric, sewerage etc. but want to ram their own agendas down everyones throat. The same people who tow a 1.5 tone caravan
behind a 2litre car, should htey pay more for road tax as they are making more damage to teh roads etc than someone driving a little car?We should alll be mindful of the way we use water, electric etc. as it is a precious resource but how we use it is no one elses business unles of course its round my house then as the bill payer I can moan
very well written, agree 100%
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