Driving licence 3.5t limit - gov't petition for increase of cat B to 4.2t
I’m a new member on the forum, but that’s not important: I have come across a petition to request UK gov to amend driving licence category B to permit motorhomes up to 4.2 tonnes, thereby permitting all standard licence holders to drive them, not just older people with automatic C1 included. It would also assist the older members when they pass 70 years of age and have to make a special re-application at every renewal to keep C1.
The petition is called Allow license holders to drive motorhomes up to 4250kg on UK Category B License, and is on the parliament.uk website under petitions. A search for the title should find. I’ll try posting a link at the end of this but not sure if it will work.
The petition is easy to use, and just requires you to be a “UK citizen” (presumably meaning British Citizen) - UK residency not required. It closes on 9th April.
Comments
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Looks like the take up is very low considering there are over 400,000 registered motorhome owners in the UK! I have not signed it because the Government has already consulted on this and decided what I think is an intitial decision to cover electric powered vehicles. It would help our hobby and the motorhome manufacturing industry if the did extend it to cover ICE vehicles and that may well happen now the EU parliament has passed such legislation.
peedee
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I’m sure I’ve read this before on here….
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I'm certainly an innocent bystander on this one @Innocent_Bystander and won't be signing for that reason alone but also sounds a bit dangerous to give such an increase with further training to anyone, what are the pros and cons I wonder?
Also as PD says, a very low take up, only 6499!
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It would help any existing driver of a motorhome between 3.5t and 4.2t once they reach 70, because it much simplifies driving licence renewal - and, crucially, much shortens the time delay in getting the new licence every 3 years. And it would greatly help any person who hasn’t got C1 on their licence, which i everyone who passed their test after 1997 unless they have taken an additional driving test for a 7.5t vehicles. I don’t understand why the fact that Gov has already consulted on this (though maybe not the specific question of motorhomes (electric or ICE) up to 4.2t) should make any difference to anyone’s willingness to sign a petition requesting it.
The fact that take up is low could simply be because most people aren’t aware of the existence of the petition - I wasn’t until a couple of days ago, yet I’ve been reading around the subject for a couple of years. Or it could be due to people oddly not adding their name because take up is low (!) or because they know Gov’t has consulted on something similar and may be mibded to do something similar …but not for the issue addressed by the petition!
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I’ve searched this forum and the club’s website and found nothing, which is why I posted here.
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I don’t think training is an issue at all. Leaving aside that at present anyone who passed their driving test before 1997 automatically has entitlement to drive up to 7.5t - a far bigger vehicle - with no different training from people driving a car, this is only talking about up to 4.2t. Many people drive vehicles that are van conversions of 4t or 4.2t vehicles, but downplated to 3.5 to allow them to drive on licences up to Cat B, e.g. a 6m Ducato Maxi. those cases the vehicle is exactly the same, the only difference being up to 500 or 700kg extra load (but brakes, suspension, steering and tyres all rated for the weight). From time to time people get caught over weight - that simply wouldn’t happen with the heavier plated vehicle but same capacity. Owners of bigger motorhomes between 4.2t and 7.5t would still have to take an additional test if they passed their original test after 1997..
Also, the EU, reknowned for legislation putting safety first, has decided to go down this line not requiring additional training for that small additional weight range.
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If your reply was to me. It’s possible I’ve seen it on other forums. I know it’s been widely debated with many people pointing out pros and cons and believing the over 70 issue isn’t addressed:
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.Sounds to me as though one section of motorhome owners are asking for preferential treatment just for them - and ignoring all other sorts of larger vehicles , like the Tesco delivery van which has just arrived here. I will go and help him unpack.
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Maybe so, and if I was setting up a petition I’d look at different wording, however this is an existing one and that is no reason for members of a motorhome and caravan club not to support the idea…
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Sorry, yes it was to you - I hadn’t got the hang of quoting in this forum.otger fora possibly - but I put here so on this club’s forum. As for over 70, then yes it is addressed because it is only Cat C that is removed by default at every renewal over 70, Cat B remaining standard, and the petition is to increase limit of Cat B to 4.2t. For that, drivers over 70 would be able to renew online and attest to no medical issues as they currently can for vehicles up to 3.5t.
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For that, drivers over 70 would be able to renew online and attest to no medical issues as they currently can for vehicles up to 3.5t.
I don't think self assessment is a good idea, it doesn't work, far to many are driving who shouldn't even now. The EU while allowing the increase to 4.25 tons thinks medical checks are necessary, but is leaving it up to individual states to decide what these will be.
peedee
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@Innocent_Bystander Apologies but you appear to be advocating this petition not to allow a simple 'upgrade' in weight but for those over 70 to simply say, attest, they have no medical issues and allow themselves to continue driving? I don't think that's a good idea as @peedee writes.
But in any case the petition has to reach 100,000 for really anything meaningful to happen, since yesterday it's gone up by 15.
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indeed, and I don’t disagree at all, but the risk applies equally to all vehicles up to 3.5t, there being no significant difference if up to 4.2t. Maybe start a petition for change the health check requirements for all vehicle weights, and not just starting after age of 70 - I’d sign it.
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As I have said, this effectively is not larger vehicles up to 7.5t, but self-limiting to vehicles like Ducato, Sprinter etc, and people over 70 can still self certify to drive cars, vans and mobile homes up to 3.5t. Medical fitness and its verification is a whole separate debate - upping the limit from 3.5 to 4.2t doesn’t really make any difference. Also, as I indicated, tthe change would be beneficial to a very large number of drivers who didn’t pass their tests until after 1997, presently limited to 3.5t motorhomes. And with automatic vehicles becoming more popular (adding to safety especially when driving abroad if not very experieced with the countries concerned), the added weight pushes the 3.5t limit making payloads extremely tight - some so tight as to be very limiting in carrying capacity with the constant risk of overload.
As for the numbers, actually at 10.000 government has to consider - 100,000 triggers a Parliamentary debate. And low numbers is surely more a reason to add names if anyone has any inkling of support not use that as an excuse not to! BTW it has jumped 99 in the past 24 hours.
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indeed, so it is a completely separate consideration as to whether a Cat B licence should cover up to 4.2t instead of 3.5t. Automatic vehicles in particular - arguably safer for driving is unfamiliar situations such as when abroard - really push the 3.5t limit, some even 6m motorhomes having virtually no payload capacity.
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@Innocent_Bystander You've posted there :
As for the numbers, actually at 10.000 government has to consider - 100,000 triggers a Parliamentary debate.
Sorry to disappoint you but you are inaccurate on both both counts.
The actual wording at 10,000 is, government will respond to this petition while at 100,000 it is this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament.
Perosnally I think, and actually hope, it will be very low on any government's to do list in these times and it will be considered for a very short period of time before more pressing matters affecting the whole population are debated in parliament?
And low numbers is surely more a reason to add names if anyone has any inkling of support not use that as an excuse not to!
Sorry I can't follow that?
But low numbers might just mean that not not enough people support it. But as with all petitions time will time, could you check nearer the time? Good luck.
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But low numbers might just mean that not not enough people support it. But as with all petitions time will time, could you check nearer the time? Good luck.
Could be many have Grandfather rights and don't care a toss also campervans, which rarely excede 3.5tons, are very popular in the UK compared to motorhomes. Then of course if either are electrically powered the B licence will allow you to go up to 4.25 tons.
peedee
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A fair point @peedee
I idly wonder of the 400,000 you mentioned how many want or need to tow above 3.5t limit anyway? There might come a time when I'll switch to a MH (here I include all all types campervans…) and I have thought about this and size will matter but a smaller model that I can take more or less anywhere.
Oh and happy new year.
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Now according to Peedee an electric vehicle (because they tend to be heavier?) are already allowed the higher weight. Surely if that is the case it blows out of the water any opposition on safety grounds is blown out of the water? Therefore it makes asolute sense to allow the increase in weight. There should actually be no need for the Government to spend time on this as its a common sense move?
David
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I agree David, there appears to be no reason why this also should not apply to ICE vehicles. However, while the Government waived the need for any extra training in June last year, I think this may currently only apply to "zero emission" goods vehicles?
peedee
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That sounds as if there was specific lobbying from the goods deliveries sector.
If only this Caravan and Motorhome Club of ours would do similar!0 -
I love it. People buy big motorhomes, find problems, then want the law changed to suit them. Oh dear.
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While there is no evidence as to the indivuals or organisations that contributed to the Driving Licence Review, there are some interesting comments in the >results< specifically on pages 152 to 155. While these relate to an unnecessary requirement for a Certificate of Competance, it does emphasise there is little difference in the skill required to drive a vehicle of 4.25 tons to that of 3.5 tons and it is probably the reason the Government abolished the need for further training in June 2025.
I just quickly scanned the document, so I may have missed other comments relating to the leisure industry.
peedee
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Don't need the law changing because I have Grandfather rights and good health , therefore it was not a problem for me to buy a big motorhome. If you read the pages I have highlighted above you will also see there is support from other areas for change.
peedee
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@Innocent_Bystander That's an interesting viewpoint. You appear to be saying you want the club to, or the club should, lobby on behalf of all its members on this point?
This assumes that all of its members, or at least enough of them are in favour of this change in the law. But since you started this thread there has been only (up to this one) 25 posts from six individual posters (two MHers? and two non members) and I can't see anyone apart from you saying they are going to sign, in fact I'm only assuming you have signed?
Why not write into the club asking for support or its stance on this, there's been no questions tabled in any AGM in the last few years either. Depending on how many signatures the petition gets you could table a question for the next AGM?
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That is rather condescending.
Actually maybe people want to buy a 6m van conversion motorhome, not very big, but want automatic, and find that in 3.5t format the payload is so small that they would not be able to take their children with them in the two passenger travelling seats, let alone carry anything heavy. Real life example.
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But that is their problem, they cannot just change the law, or want the law changed to get around that?
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A club potentially can lobby for the benefit of some of its members. The Club’s suggestion to me was that I raise at the next AGM - which is next October, but the petition expires in April! Yes that would be relevant to determine a club position on the subject, and determine any lobbying position. However in the meantime there would be nothing inappropriate for the Club to draw its members’ attention to an existing petition as soon as they became aware of it, without indicating support or otherwise but just for the legitimate possible interest of a proportion of members, as much news as many things we are informed of in newsletters.
People who have voiced objection here have been focussed primaty on presumed safetygrounds, either with health certification by the elderly - which equally applies to all driving - or on possibly the basis of weight but appearing to lump with all vehicles up to 7.5t.
Re numbers, only a small proportion of membership will be forum members looking here frequently, I suspect most only coming to the forum whan they have a question to ask, so readership low (250 so far have viewd this thread). Despite that, in the 3 days since I posted 190 additional people have signed, yet in the 3 days before that, following me and family members signing, there were zero additional signings. That is by no means proof that any were connected with this tgread, but circumstantially suggests a good number may be - and most people seeing and thinking it is a good idea would likely just go and sign and not post anything in the forum unless that were committed forumites.0
