Cost of pitches
Comments
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"how do you or anyone know what number is taken for any survey?"
@Cornersteady - If I remember my statistics correctly - and it's a long time since I did any serious research - the total 'population' has no bearing on sample size and therefore, accuracy What matters is 'sampling error' and this does not vary significantly with what proportion the sample is of the total population. If you look at most national surveys - political voting intentions and the like, for example - the sample size tends to be of the order of 1100 which gives an accuracy of about +/- 2%. Since increasing the sample size further (say to 2000), the sampling error would only improve by a fraction of that 2%, there is little to be gained by increasing the sample size. Thus, it is a balance between cost and accuracy.
Obviously, if that +/- 2% is a critical factor in the research, then it would be worthwhile increasing the sample size to minimise the sampling error - but it would be more costly.
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…but we all realise, surely, that poll/survey results can be influenced greatly by who is selected to be the sample. Think political polls and the different results obtained in various areas of the country, for example. In the same way, I think a survey of CT users is never going to be truly representative of the whole due to us being almost exclusively of the older generation.
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Surveys are usually done on the "representative sample" basis based on around 2000 people. Whilst that doesn't sound a lot compared to the total number of members the Club can decide who they send the survey to based on how people use Club sites, or perhaps who don't use Club sites. If the purpose of the survey is to really establish a true guide to how members feel they need to have a cross section of members completing the survey. The selection process will include a cross section of ages, members that use sites a lot, those that use serviced pitches and those that rarely use a Club site, and a mix of unit types, etc. So you should end up with a mixed cross section of members which gives you your representative sample that can give a cross section of views. The problem with social media is that you are inclined to get firm opinions, one way or the other. If there is a subject on which people have an axe to grind its usually not possible to get a cross section of views. We might all agree that Club sites are not cheap but where people differ is on the value they represent. Would I be right in thinking that people have a caravan or a motorhome because that suits their holiday requirements? If you spend 60 nights away each years and pay on average £40 a night that is just under £2500 a year in site fees, half that if you only spend 30 nights away. I know this is just my opinion but that does not seem excessive to me. A family could spend double that on a two week package holiday. There is no doubt that site fees have risen, especially since Covid. Site fees are not immune from the general economic weather, if fact I suspect site fees have been hammered more than most by an increase in overheads. I doubt there is any going back?
David
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I will generally only use a C&MH club site if there’s something in particular about the site that attracts me, or for convenience reasons. Other than that we very rarely use them now as I consider them (on a like for like basis) to be expensive. For instance, we stayed at a campsite in Harrogate last year, peak season, £28 a night, hardstanding and electric. The site was neat and tidy, and facilities were spotless, just like a club site. Yes, the clubs T’s & C’s are better than most, if not all, but I find being flexible helps. For certainty, I’ll sometimes use the ‘other’ club. I suppose I only retain my membership to give me a wider range of options.
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With the cost of caravans, and MHs, these days, I think they are only cost effective if you make very good use of them.
With our previous van, we only did about 50 nights per year as I was working and our daughter was still at school. However we owned it for 10 years and the depreciation averaged around £750 per annum. Add on insurance and servicing back then, it probably cost us £1100 per annum to have it.
When I retired we were able to spend up to 4 months away each year, so fixed costs per day were less than before. The last 7 years we have only been away half as much, but we still have the same caravan, had we bought a new one then the annual costs would be much higher.
However my pension has by no means kept up with inflation, or site fees, so we have had to find ways to reduce costs, such as CLs, CCC sites with age discount, CSs, and a few smaller commercials. It was either that or further reduce our time away, in which case, IMO, we might as well have sold the caravan.
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Totally agree @Tinwheeler - I forgot to include the word "random" sample in my post above!
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Of more interest to me, I wonder who has devised/commissioned the survey? The questions asked, and the options around answers are just as important as those being surveyed. It might just be a fairly simple satisfaction survey, but anything that might be looking deeper into driving any changes would be viewed more cynically by me! I used to write customer surveys, and there are subtle ways of getting the answers you want! Strange that @richardandros couldn’t go back a step and renter a different answer. I never did online stuff though🤷♀️
Our local council subscribes to the “you said, we did” mantra. Six months of hard resistance, sometimes very heated, got one decision they had taken more closely looked at, and it turned out that half a dozen “locals” with a particular agenda had skewed the issue. The thousands of others who objected, gave up time to campaign, attend meetings, get decent councillors and local MP on board eventually pushed back and got the most contentious part of the proposed changes kicked out.
Whilst typing this, I have had the photo link icon re appear above this posting box🤩 And the “review” box below has vanished! Someone is working to sort things out, somewhere, so thank you😁0 -
Testing to see if photos work
Nope, things have reverted again
Aha…….if I go into edit, the icons appear!
Got the photo to come up, but there’s no function for making it smaller, or placing to either side of page. My hedgehog is going to be huge🤣0 -
Whatever reason may be lurking in the background I think surveys are generally a good thing for the Club to conduct. Even if the results are not palatable at least the Club will know how members feel. I imagine the Club outsource the survey to specialist companies having given them details of what they want to know. If the Club have taken trouble to get a good mix of members, to whom they send the survey, they should get a reasonably accurate picture of what members at large think.
David
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The Club do invite feedback..after every booking in my experience.
Its not long ago, around the time of the new booking system, that these pages were on fire with negativity. Trust Pilot reviews went down to around 3, and some were predicting that the Club was doomed.
Now the reviews are back up to 4.1, those same doom mongers are deafening us with their silence.
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@TimboC It would be interesting to know what influences the Club most? I could be wrong but I am not sure this forum does? As a member it seems a little disloyal to run to Trust Pilot, despite encouragement from the Club, to make a complaint, although understandable from the viewpoint that negative often gets a response on that platform from the Club.
David
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As an old boss us to say to me 'Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions'
The Club has asked the membership to get involved recently with the website, via visits to East Grinstead and Teams interviews over the internet. They even incentivised us with a £40 bribe.
But is anyone talking about that here? The only thing that I've read is along the lines of 'I ain't driving to EG!'
Any forum, chatroom or review site only ever gives one side of the story, and the only way to affect real change is to get involved.
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@TimboC That's the first I've heard about member involvement via visits to EG and Teams interviews, I've never seen any references to that before now. I don't do FB though, so if it's been mentioned on there I wouldn't know. All we've had in the past up to now are requests for reviews after staying on a clubsite; and as we've only done that to make use of the free night offers, that's only been 3 times in the last year and this. Presumably these invitations are randomly selected, or possibly only certain members, ie those who use club sites a lot?
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I had a Teams meeting with an outside agency, employed by the Club, about the Clubs insurance offer. Anyone living an hour from EG was invited to attend, and everyone else had an individual Teams meeting, presumably if selected. I had mine on the 25th March, and was paid £40.
It took about an hour, and I was shown the new insurance website proposal and invited to comment. There was a similar thing done before the new website was launched.
I cant find the post now, if its finished it may have been taken down, but it was posted to this forum
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Here it is.
Hi everyone,
I've posted this in the
website member testing groupWe'd love to find some tourer caravanners to help us improve our website!One hour sessions will take place on Tuesday 25 March in East Grinstead and virtual/remote sessions on Wednesday 26 March.Places are limited: if selected to take part, you'll receive a cash thank you (and travel expenses for East Grinstead based sessions).1 -
I once received an invite to take part in a survey based on club sites. I recall posting about it here and no one else replied saying they had been invited. Additionally there have been posts about surveys I've not been invited to.
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@TimboC Thanks for the link. I actually took part in that, and was also part of the testing of the new website. The reason I didn't see the other is that it was addressed to "touring caravanners", as we have a MH, I didn't think it applied to me, so didn't read it.
Thanks for clarifying 👍
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hi Cornersteady, I agree to a point having been on sites recently yes the more elderly of us may not be the majority but even so the scale of the empty sites to me shows that the over pricing is stopping the midweek aged members from booking club sites.
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The initial 20% deposits did appear to work but now the £5 is not.
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@clarinetman sorry what 'scale of empty sites'? Where do you get 'empty' from, where's the data? Have you seen them, although sorry if you have they can't have been empty?As I posted up thread there were many full regions and a lot of lows last weekend.
Last weekend here was full, midweek it's been about 60% and tonight it's 75% full on service pitches, there are about 38 SP, and 70% full on the standard which about 110 pitches. If this site fills like that then the club is doing well at least on this site.
Prices now are stable till a week tonight at about £40 to £45 so I can't see any mispricing?
To repeat myself once more I've been on sites this year, where midweek has been full and almost full, and I'm having difficulty getting pitches on about five sites for May onwards for more than a few days. What's your experiences been like?
The site tonight.
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@clarinetman what do you mean in now not working? The deposits are meant to deter speculative bookings and no shows? If it's not working now then bookings are up or appear to be? It sort of contradicts your scale of empty sites?
Again what's your evidence for not working?
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I think there's more at work here than simply pricing. If what some have said is true - that high prices on Club sites were forcing occupancy down, then I would have expected non-club, cheaper sites to benefit. Now, I know it's only a random sample of one! - but the CS we are on has been quieter than we have ever seen it in the last 10 years. Loads of space - beautiful toilet/shower block, water at almost every pitch - all for £26pn but having been here for two weeks now, whilst there were 5 vans and 1 tent for two days over the Easter weekend, the rest of the time we have been on our own - until yesterday when one van turned up. It's usually full, or nearly full at this time of year.
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most of the comments here about site occupancy are either anecdotal or speculative. So here is another anecdote for you. We are currently in Scotland for 10 or 11 days. We only booked any sites that needed booking about a week before we left and had no problems, no second choices. Those were all CL or CS sites. So far we have stayed at two Motorhome Aires, both full, and one CL where there were two of us. Purely an anecdote, so make of it what you will. I draw no conclusions.
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The only people with the real statistics are the Club. Now I don't dismiss anecdotal observations because they often give the "feel" for what it is like on the ground. The question that comes to my mind is whether it really is a question of price or more about over capacity for the current demand? The stats provided by CS from a popular Lake District site at peak time still shows plenty of capacity but the higher priced pitches taken. Richard's example of a well equipped CL at only £26 a night not being used as much as seemingly in the past. Interesting that Hja mentions the Aires were full but not the CL. Were the Aires chargeable or free, even if there was a charge it was probably the convenience of their situation that contributed to them being full? The club has recently had all sort of promotions with discounts and even the odd free night offer which all go to reducing the overall price of a stay. Are these offers working. I suppose the crucial question is, if there was a network wide £10 a night reduction in site fees would that fill sites up or would occupation levels stay the same? If the latter is the case it points to a deeper underlying issue where price is not as important as some think it is?
David
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It does seem that many people are not put off by higher prices for serviced pitches as they always seem to be the first booked up. My feeling since the surge after covid is that many people have gone back to foreign holidays. I am sure there has been some loss at the other end as the credit crunch hits.
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