Water connection on serviced pitch
I’m sure people ask this question a lot by I’m new to motorhome stuff and I’m sure I’m missing something. At the moment I’m on a serviced pitch and when my onboard water tank is empty I get the hose out and wind it out and connect it up and refill the tank. Am I doing this wrong isn’t there a way to have the connection always refilling the tank? I see people with caravans and they have their water barrels connected all the time, I just thought there would be a solution for motorhomes as well.
Comments
-
You could, of course, have a barrel and a siphon system to keep it topped up. Then you'd need to have some sort of pump to get the water from the barrel into the tank...and find somewhere to store the barrel(s).
personally, I just use a hose as you've described.
you can leave your hose connected to the tap and just shove the other end into the filler hole. You can use the hose to top up at any time, you don't have to wait for it to become empty.
using a hose is the least hassle, IMHO as you don't need all the extra kit that caravanners carry in the way of barrel (or two) and all the pumping kit.
keep it simple is the way.
0 -
Even though nearly a month old, this was showing as the latest post just now (14/11/2022 at around 18:00) on the top-level list of discussions. That caused me to look at it and found you'd had no responses, which seems odd.
I am a motorhome owner as well. As far as I know, there's no way, with a motorhome, of having the water "on-tap" permanently. Of course, you do not have to keep attaching your hose every time you need a top up. You can leave the hose between the tap and your van permanently hooked up (you'll need a water cap with a hose connector on the inlet to your van instead of the usual closed cap). Then you just turn on the tap to top up your water and turn it off again afterwards. You can't leave the tap on permanently because your tank will just over-flow and you'll be dropping fresh water under your van and onto the pitch.
Most (all?) caravans don't have on-board water tanks and the water is fed, via the pump, directly from the Aqua roll. On a serviced pitch it is possible to have a ball or float valve, similar to most toilet cisterns, that screws into the side of the Aqua roll using the opening on the side. They can then leave the pitch water tap on permanently, but as the water in the Aqua roll rises it reaches the float which is then raised and closes the valve and cuts off the water. That way they can leave the pitch tap on all the time. I believe there are more sophisticated systems whereby you can connect the hose from the tap directly into the caravan, avoiding the need for an Aqua Roll.
I've never been a caravanner; this is just what I have picked up. I hope it's right. I think it is, but someone will correct any errors.
The bottom line is, in a motorhome, you just have to turn the tap on and off when you need a top-up, but you can leave the hose connected.
0 -
If we are on a service pitch I tend to leave the hose out as mentioned above. Although I don’t leave it connected to the hose connector cap on the van. It only takes seconds to reattach it and connected there is the risk that either myself or someone cutting across the pitch might trip over the hose, shearing off the connector cap and possibly damaging the filler itself.
0 -
As far as most motohomers are concerned the advantages of serviced pitches are rather limited. They are not always in the best places on sites as far as we are concerned either. I’d rather save the difference and have a possible greater choice of pitches,
2 -
I think it might depend on your motorhome. Our previous van was an Autosleeper. The water fill hose was connected via a Whale pump to the van (special socket on the van). Connect to the tap, turn on, and when full it stopped filling. So presumably, in that case you could just leave it connected, although in my ignorance I would be a bit concerned about water pressure.
Current van, put the hose in the filler cap, turn on, and wait for it to overflow.
I dont go out of my way to pitch on a serviced pitch, and wouldnt pay extra. But I quite like it when we do end up on one in that we dont need to move the van to fill up, and I can attach a hose to the waste to get rid of it. Yes, I know we could use a watering can to fill up, and we do have one, and do use it occasionally (loo flushes direct from tank, so separate loo water tank) but in our van using a watering can isnt very easy. The inlet is quite high and the pipe into the tank is almost horizontal so you have to fill slowly and at a higher angle.
0 -
Ah, that's interesting. I often wondered if any manufacturer provided a system like that on a motorhome. It would make sense, but I had not come across it before.
Also, I often wondered about water pressure - not for myself but for those caravanners using these float valve things. I am not sure I would trust these; they are all plasticky and rather flimsy looking and I would feel nervous about leaving the tap on all the time. But for all I know they are very reliable. Another downside is that I have seen a few leaking connectors at the water tap before now which, over time, would waste quite an appreciable amount of water. I would be self-conscious of this, but some do not seem remotely fazed by it.
I find the big advantage of a service pitch is not so much the fresh-water side, where, I agree, in a motorhome, the advantages are limited, but it is the waste-water side of things. I find having my waste drain away immediately is a big plus. I tend to have longer morning showers when on a serviced pitch knowing the lack of hassle to both fill up and drain away!!
If not on a service pitch, I use an Aqua roll and 12-volt pump to fill my fresh tank. I find storing the aqua roll presents no issues, but you could not leave it permanently attached with a float valve, because there is no mechanism by which the 12-volt pump can switch off and cut the flow of water. The tank would just keep filling and filling and overflow.
If very close to a service point, I top-up my fresh tank with a 10-litre watering can. It is much less hassle provided you don't have far to walk as it does, obviously, require more journeys! I remember a post, years ago, from a caravanner who thought it was absolutely hilarious to see motorhome owners filling up their tank with a watering can. It is actually a very sensible approach in some circumstances.
0 -
Again, much depends on the size of your tanks and the rate of usage. We fill the tank and, even if showering in the van (say, on a CL) we get 5/6 days worth from one fill...definitely not a case for using service pitches.
Similarly, as a proportion of the water usage (tea, coffee, cold drinks) passes through 'us', it gets deposited in a toilet somewhere, not in the waste tank which, again, has never been filled on a single stay.i don't know how long Graydjames stays on a site at a time, but I wouldn't have thought a single person in a large MH would ever drain a full fresh tank, nor fill the waste...one pull of a lever on the way out and, presto...but there you go....
0 -
Depends on how long a shower you have, if you wash up in the van and what that washing up entails. We are clearly not as frugal as you. On a non service pitch our fresh lasts 3 days with a 10 litre watering can top up. The waste also lasts three days, despite the extra 10 litres, as a fair bit of the fresh is drunk or used by the flush. If we stop four days, which is normally our longest stay, I have to decant 20 litres from the waste and put in another couple of watering cans. I agree with GJ the big plus of a service pitch is the waste drainage, there always seems to be a queue when we leave.
0 -
Just to answer your question on your second paragraph, the float valve rests inside the aquaroll (other brands are available) and shuts off the supply from the tap when the aquaroll is half full and then the pump either in the aquaroll or inside the caravan takes over to pump water into it when you open the taps inside. So the water pressure from the tap doesn't affect anything inside the caravan. If the float value fails then all that happens is that the aquaroll overflows, now this does happen but very occasionally, in 20 years of using one it's happened once to me and I've seen it on other caravans but someone will notice and either turn the tap off or get the warden to do it but there is no damage to the caravan just a large puddle by the side of it.
There are systems that plug straight into the caravan without the need for an aqauroll but these have pressure reducers on them.
Yes the drip from the tap does happen as well, I always make sure it doesn't if it's to do with 'my side' of the tap but often it's the tap that leaks and I report it and will turn the tap off when going out for the day.
1 -
We wash up, shower and wash in the van and can easily go 4/5 days on a full water tank. The biggest chore is emptying the loo and topping up the flush neither of which is negated by the use of a serviced pitch. I only ever use serviced pitches if that is all the site offers and then would only have to refill the water tank and empty grey waste if staying more than 4/5 days. In that case out would come the hoses.
peedee
0 -
Yes, as you say, it's always usage v capacity. perhaps the longevity (or not) of one's supply is a mindset thing?
When we first got into MHing I soon realised that, if you left things under running taps, someone had to replenish the supply (and empty the waste) far more quickly.cleaning teeth under running water will soon get through many litres, similar to showering...
also, it doesn't take a full bowl of water to wash a couple of plates and cups at lunchtime.
it's easy to forget that vans (not on serviced pitches) aren't connected to mains input or waste just as at home.
our pals seem to get through water like it's going out of fashion, mind you I've seen xxx washing up...full bowl for a couple of cups, rinsing (seemingly forever) under a running tap.
yes, we don't want our hobby to seem to be any sort of a hardship, but turning the tap off while cleaning teeth will save loads of water as will using an appropriate amount of water for dishwashing.
when we are long terming, we have a serviced pitch but this doesn't change how we operate. As I said, it's probably a mindset thing.
0 -
Thanks for that Corners; it was the float valve that concerned me, not anything in the van. I've only ever seen pictures of them, but they look so flimsy. I would just feel uneasy about the possibility of a failure and water spilling out on the pitch. That's just how I am. If I used one and found it reliable, I would relax!
0 -
I probably do use more water than some, maybe many. There have been threads on this before and I remember reading of some using only around 10 litres a day. I shower every morning albeit not usually for very long - say about three to four minutes. Even with the low-flow shower head that will use a fair bit. I never use site facilities for anything, including washing up, except, rarely, depending on the site, for the loo. On the other hand, I never use the fresh water from my tank for drinking and instead have a 5-litre container filled from a fresh water tap on site. This is used even for the kettle. I do not allow the water to run when brushing my teeth, whether in my van or at home. I have always worked on an assumption that I probably use around 30 litres a day.
Both my tanks are 100 litre.
But probably more telling in my case is that I do like my fresh tank to be topped up regularly. My van has a very inaccurate water gauge involving four steps represented by blocks on an LCD display. I try never to let it fall below two blocks unless it is during the really cold weather (if we ever get any again) when, at the end of a stay, I try to use as much of the fresh water as possible to minimise the final drain. I have found that two blocks is more than half full, but even so it is how I like to work. It is a mild OCD thing, and I can’t help it. I also like to keep the waste never more than “two blocks” full so I will empty at least every couple of days (if not on a serviced pitch obviously).
I tend, mostly, to only use a serviced pitch if I am on a site for more than two or three days - and then by no means always and, anyway, I am often on sites with no serviced pitches. I do stay on sites probably longer than the average motorhomer. I prefer sites near towns or cities, or with good public transport; I often stay for a week or sometimes even longer.
I never move my van once pitched and I don’t use MSPs at all. I’d sooner do everything on my pitch and if not on a serviced pitch, which is more often than not, I find I get on fine with the Aqua roll (or as mentioned above a watering can) and the Wastemaster.
0 -
A pleasure, I've had mine (a branded aqarroll one) for 20 years now and apart from that one time overnight in August 2015 it's never failed to work as it should. I never did find out what caused it, and a bit like a computer with windows - took it out, put it back in and all has been well since. I see a few turn the tap off overnight so they too must share your feelings.
1 -
I just had to report this extraordinary coincidence, Corners.
I am at Chapel Lane at the moment and I just went on an evening constitutional around the site. As I passed one van, on a service pitch, I noticed that the roadway was very wet - it is otherwise dry - and then I could hear the sound of running water. I directed my torch at the van's Aqua Roll and water was spewing out of the top. I reported it to the van owner, who was very grateful. I could have flooded the site, he said. Well hardly that, but if left it would have been embarrassing. Perhaps when they had gone to bed they would have heard the sound of running water. It seemed the float valve had not shut off the water.
I've never seen anything like that before and it happens three days after our exchange. Why do coincidences like that happen? Weird. Anyway, I just thought you might like to know.
It didn't do much for my confidence in those float valves!
1 -
Thanks for posting and yes what an amazing coincidence, and yes it always happens like that, you talk about something to someone and just after there it is!
It does happen and probably if you saw the same outfit again it will be fine, from dim and distant memory someone did post on here once that it might happen because the side entrance screw-in cap that houses the float is not fully screwed in and hence the float inside is at an angle rather than pointing straight downwards and hence the rising water won't shut it off?
Actually as we've spoke about it now I'm going to start turning the tap off at night and if we've out!
1 -
Not just the cap not being screwed fully on that could cause a problem. The ball valve fitment is ( usually ) held in position on the cap solely by the tightness of the screw fitments. So it is able to rotate from the correct position and fail to close.
A visual check the valve is in the correct position just as one drops the intake pipe into the Aquaroll ( or such ) could take two seconds. I have marked the pipe fitment on the one I use so it can be checked externally on set up and subsequently.
0 -
Quite a few caravans, generally twin axles, do have on board tanks, we have one, but they are generally quite small, 35-40 litres, and not intended for use when on a serviced pitch. In that case, as you said, we use the Aquaroll with ball valve inside to keep water available.
In our case, a 2008 caravan, when not on a serviced pitch, we fill the on board tank from the Aquaroll, then refill the Aquaroll, giving us 80 litres of water, but the waste tank is still only 40 litres.
1 -
We have an unusual system in our van - the same as that fitted to Airstream's, apparently and was fitted by the dealer before purchase since, surprisingly, our twin axle van didn't have an inboard tank as standard.. All of our water comes from the inboard tank. There is a float switch in the inboard tank which activates the Aquaroll pump via a microswitch. As the water level in the inboard tank drops, it is automatically topped up by the Aquaroll. Couple this with the float switch in the Aquaroll when on serviced pitches and we have a constant supply of water without having to turn any valves or worry about the i/b tank running dry.
0 -
...but isn't the advantage of having an on board tank that you don't need another one (or two) sat outside the van in the cold?
I can't see why water needs to pass through a large external tank just to pump it into an identical one inside the van.
why can't these clever systems just fill the internal tank...with some form of 'valve' if need be...though anything with 'Whale' on it needs to be avoided like the plague of other forums are to be believed.
Our 'valve' is me turning on the tap every 5-10 days when the guage moves into the red and filling the tank. No barrels, no valves, no pumps, no worries.
why carry a huge barrel (or even two) and associated pumping kit when the tank is part of the vehicle?🤷🏻♂️
0 -
That's interesting. I remember donkeys' years ago, when I was toying with buying a caravan, rather than a motorhome, I looked at a Van Royce caravan that had on-board tank. It wasn't a big van though. Does Van Royce still exist? I can't recall having seen one in recent years.
I didn't know whether current day vans had on board tanks at all. You've answered that, thank you.
0 -
Van Royce was one of the classics but perhaps not a major one like Safari or Cheltenham. It vanished many years ago.
Onboard water tanks were more likely to be found in the 'up market' caravans way back then.
0 -
I dont suppose it would be impossible to do. However, unless you always use service pitches you are going to be carrying the aquaroll anyway. If you routinely use service pitches they don’t have to be huge, there is a colapz version. In the cold with a caravan on a service pitch, it’s normally the tap or the hose that freezes, a clever valve system wouldn’t help.
I find our 100 litre internal insulated tank, filled periodically, a vast improvement on the aquaroll float system we used to use with our caravans, particularly in winter weather.0 -
It's just a matter of personal choice. I see the logic of your way of working, but I work differently, as described above. Perhaps the main driver for me is that I don't use MSPs. My waste takes an inordinate amount of time to drain and there always seemed to be at least one van in front of me. On departure day I like to be away and on- the-road and I never move my van once on pitch. I can't be doing with MSPs.
My way is not better or best, but it suits me.
I find it only a very minor hassle to carry the portable containers. They sit on the bed when travelling, in covers. On site the covers go under the bed, the Wastemaster sits under the van, and the Aqua roll beside the van, near the water access. Sometimes, if very close to a service point, I won't use the Aqua roll, but top up using a watering can. This lives under the bed.
With most motorhomes, the on-board tank would just overflow if you had water being constantly fed via a float valve in an Aqua roll. I've often wondered if there was an alternative, such that you didn't even have to do that, and now I know that there is from at least two posts above. But for most motorhomes, on a serviced pitch, it is a case of turning on the tap every now and again - for you, not often, for me, probably, daily!! I agree that that is no bother but nor, for me, is carrying portable "barrels".
1 -
Our van is old, 2008, so our systems are much less complex than some available these days.
Newer vans do have more electronics and have the ability to top up the internal tank automatically, similarly to what R&R described, though I did read that there was initially quite a few problems with the operation of it, and with people not understanding how to operate it.
I believe the one Swift uses requires, or did require, a second pump, but I never really paid much attention to it . We just have the one on board pump, and a valve system that can be set to either.....
use from the Aquaroll
use from the on board tank
fill on board tank from Aquaroll
so pretty simple.
I would say the main reason to use an Aquaroll even with the on board tank is to minimise the risk of getting too much pressure in the internal pipework of the van, which could fail and result in a flooded van.
There are systems with direct connection to the van via a pressure reducer, but these can fail, and have been known to do so, so I would not want to take that risk.
For us, the advantage of an on board tank is that you can fill it and then not need the Aquaroll sitting out to possibly freeze, or you can have 80 litres of water available and have more choice as to when you need to venture out to refill. You still have the problem of only having 40 litres waste capacity if using a Wastemaster. I have often seen vans with 2 Aquarolls, but have never seen one with 2 Wastemasters!
When on a serviced pitch, there is no need to fill the on board tank, at least not in our van, we use the Aquaroll as a cistern and set our valves to "use from Aquaroll".
Our on board tank cannot be filled using a hose pipe.
Many continental vans do have on board tanks, but I think these often have to be filled using a hose, so a different system again, but I have not studied them. As far as I can make out, British caravanners are fairly unique in that many of us opt to use our own shower facilities, and to hook up to water on serviced pitches "over there", we have had quite a few bemused looks when doing so!
0 -
The float valves are actually surprisingly robust. Our original one, purchased in 1998 only failed this year.
Hoses on the other hand need replaced frequently as many sites have very high water pressure. We try to always remember to turn off the tap when away from the van. This year I have invested in a pressure reducer to fit on the site tap before connecting our hose, seems to work well.
0 -
Kjell, I can see the issues...the one that always strikes me as odd (and annoys the hell out of many owners) is when the supplier fits some complicated method for getting water into a vans tank (to make life easier!!) but don't fit a hole in the wall.
it would drive me bonkers if I couldn't just stuff a hose in the hole and fill as I please.
the AS forum was awash with folk having issues with Whale fillers....a) because they often failed...b) you had to carry a load of extra kit (often not easy to stor in their popular PVCs).
yes, we're all different but even so, let us choose how we want to be different, don't let converters impose it on us.
0 -
I can see that would be very annoying for a MH owner......does not make sense, as you say!
Not really an issue for most caravanners as being able to use a hose pretty much implies you are on a serviced pitch, and there are already 2 ways to use water via a hose in that case.
Thinking further, We could actually fill our on board tank with a hose as we have an access point to it on the top of it, but that would involve taking the hose inside the caravan.
0 -
I have often seen vans with 2 Aquarolls, but have never seen one with 2 Wastemasters!
I guess you have not yet seen my caravan then. To make use at temperatures below freezing possible I removed a lot of pipes that provided a convoluted route for the waste from the galley to pass above the axles and exit alongside the washroom waste. It now goes straight down through the floor with an easily removed connection to the repositioned outlet connector.
Two wastemasters = 1/2 number of emptying trips.
0 -
@KjellNN .... you pretty much describe the set up on ,y 2013 Coachman other than I don't have an access point to the top of the onboard tank as it lives under the floor.
I replaced the OE Truma transfer pump with a Whale because the Truma pump was c**p, the hose is too rigid & the plastic body came apart.
0
