The future of the whole Industry
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It’s also been & being tightened up too(outdated laws). I think the living in a van lifestyle is coming to an end, insurance & even warranty’s are being challenged by the governing bodies it seems🤷🏻♂️
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They claim further restrictions are to target ‘problem travellers’ - yet, they will not introduce a simple one line law that would end that problem at a stroke.
I’m sure some ‘green’ pollution tax your will be levied on caravans and Motorhomes sooner rather than later.
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‘One line law’ when was the last time law makers used that simple trick?🤷🏻♂️, they prefer to engage in perplexity to lower our guard & confuse🙁. It’d not do to have the hoi polloi in the loop🙁
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With one exception, the Public Health Act 1936 which covers much more that camping, the primary law governing camping sites (not tent) was enacted in 1960; hardly a century ago and certainly not to regulate gypsies and travellers as you suggest. Since then there has been a raft of secondary legislation enacted such as:
The Caravan Sites Act 1968
The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981
Conservation of Habitat and Species regulations 2017
The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005
Environmental Protection Act 1990
Highways Act 1980
Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000
The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act Model Standards 1983/1989/2008
Mobile Homes Act 1983
Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990
Environment Agency Standing Advice ( Flood risk )
Natural England Standing Advice ( Conservation and Ecological Impact )
Forestry Commission Standing Advice ( Ancient woodlands )
Design Manual for Roads and Bridges / Manual for Streets 2
Animal Health Act 1981 ( Biosecurity )
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 / The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2020
IET regulations 18th edition
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998I'm sure if I dug deeper I could fined more as could you, but my point is that the hobby is not governed by outdated laws, but I do think some updating and streamlining could be done 😉.
PS. One line laws are never going to happen. Think of the number of legislators and lawyer such things would put out of a job.
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‘No one may camp on any land without the written permission of the landowner’.
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Like I said, not a single piece of legislation adressing touring caravans as a legitimate pastime.
Regulation is a mish mash of disparate and barely and often unrelated legislation with large tracts simply cut and pasted without reference to the actual issue being addressed - see ‘regulation’ re spacing, invariably a lazy cut and paste from regulation re static mobile homes. And any casual perusal of legislation will show that much of it seems to have little understanding of what a modern leisure caravan actually is - see arcane discussions about multi piece vs one piece etc construction.
The legislation as such makes as much sense as lumping regulation of domestic baths in with public swimming pools.
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Nice one🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. I Mayhap should’ve prefaced it with ‘effective’👍🏻
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Two for the price of one, eh? 😉
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This is the crux of the matter in a nutshell. With reference to parking on Motorway Service areas. it is a foregone conclusion that the landowner has, by virtue of the law regarding provision of caravan spaces at MSAs, already granted permission to use the facility, But 'Parking' and 'Camping' are two entirely different things. When does 24 hours of parking become 'camping'? Once the caravan legs are down, it is camping!
If anyone disagrees with that, let me know, and I will use that excuse at any court hearing (big smile).
On a side note, it is NOT illegal to park by the roadside (safely, of course) and sleep in your vehicle. Again I reiterate, 'Parking' and 'Camping' are two different things. Many HGV drivers take advatage of this, in laybys etc.
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Hi All
Had conversation with caravan dealer other week Two things he told me He is getting a lot of vans back in that he sold during covid spell seems people going back to queuing at airports Also Swift has still got build quality problems he is sending back new caravans delivered by Swift as in his words leaking like a sieve Not good news at all Seems Swift still got front roof window problems as well My son brought a 2023 Swift caravan which had a crack in roof window which had to be replaced I asked dealer why Swift had so any problems with roof windows his answer a shrug of the shoulders
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+1, I was questioned quite a few years ago on my way to Skye after I’d pulled in for a Zuzz. I was told it was illegal by the Polace(his words). I was honest in that I’d driven up from Yorkshire. I was give 4hrs. It worked for me👍🏻
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Re the first part of Robert's post. In a slightly similar vein, talking to a friend who is a part time salesman for one of the UK's bigger dealerships he told me that at the last caravan and motorhome show the enquiries and sales of motorhomes had slowed down. The split was about 40% MH and 60% caravans. At the previous show it had been the other way around.
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I seem to have forgotten this topic I started a year ago. but recently I have been out and about doing some research. Our local Motorway Service Area (nothbound M1 at Wooley Edge) seems to have rules of it's own.or perhaps none. HGV's parked in Coach Bays, HGV's parked in Caravan Bays. HGV's all over the place Even on the Exit road to rejoin the motorway. I am of the opion that the latter one was to avoid the 24 hour parking charge as it was not within the boundary of the said service area On a couple of occasions I have seen 3 trucks parked along the hard shoulder of the exit road. I am in fear of these MSA's beocoming a 'free for all' regarding parking and you just park where you can. which would bring chaos and problems for genral motorists and those towing anything.
In reply to Rocky 2 buckets, If you put even only 1 leg of your cravan down. to the ground to support it while parked. it constitutes camping which is not allowed in laybys. The idea of Laybys was so that long distance travellers could stop to rest and if necessary grab some sleep. It was intended as a safety issue rather than a concession. 'tiredness can kil' etc.
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We learned decades ago with our caravan to take things steady, find the scenic routes with somewhere decent to park up legally overnight. We do the same with our MH now. We haven’t scoured rock bottom desperation for decades considering either a layby or even a service station. CLs usually take both vans and MH’s, and lots are seldom far off a travel route. Just makes relaxing travel sense to us.
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...and are Motorhomes classed as Caravans ...for example, and I refer to your last post regarding the parking at Wooly Edge MSS (north bound and also local to us). Last week we made an unscheduled stop there so the OH could pick up a newspaper and a 4 pint...!!
Pulling in at the clearly signed designated "Caravans Only" parking.....we were confronted by a twin axle motorhome at the front end with a Range Rover immediately in front...with a little manoeuvring we managed to slot in the remaining space with less than a foot between us and the Range Rover. Unfortunately, unless the Motorhome left before...the Range Rover wasn't going anywhere.
Trying to keep the story short.... this led to some strong verbal altercation after the RR owner asked management to put out a message over the PA for the owners of the `motorhome and caravan to move their vehicles...that didn't happen !! When a manager did eventually come to the area, he pointed out that whilst we were legally parked (their rules) the motorhome was not and requested the owner move it immediately.
There then followed a lengthy discussion on the definition of a Motor Caravan (which the owner said it was) vs Motorhome which both the manager and the RR owner said it was and could have been accommodated in the car park or the HGV area. Although I was asked an opinion, I declined on the grounds I wasn't legally qualified. !!!
Unfortunately I left almost immediately (OH tugging away) so I cannot report on the outcome but as I looked in my rear view mirror just before redoing the motorway..it looked like the discussion was still ongoing..
Does anyone have a view / definition
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Rather than get into the technical arguments about whether motorhomes and campervans and PVCs are motor caravans or not the issue is about parking. Most motorhomes cannot park in the car park because they would take up and need more than one bay and because in some cases manoeuvring a long vehicle around said car park is hugely difficult.
In my experience, where there are separate hgv and caravan parking areas the assumption from the service area is that motorhomes will park in the caravan area. I think the principle is that the hgv area is for hgv only. Motorway service stations are, I believe, required to provide parking for all vehicles so it would probably be helpful if signage made clear where the different categories of vehicles should park.
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Hja, From what you say. I am of the opinion that the owner of the Range Rover was illegally parked in the Caravans Only bay. not the Motorhome owner. but on further thought. I may have stated the official MOTO rule regarding parking, previously in this topic. but for simplicity I will reiterate..
Caravan bays can be used for Cars towing a caravan or a trailer of any description. Motorhomes, may use the normal car park even if taking up more than one space. OR may use the Caravans Only bays.
At the particualr site under discussion. there is no spaces set aside for 'VAN's ie. campervans or commercial vans. so that is another thing to add to the confusion. is a Motorhome a Van ? ( albeit in some cases a very large van.) Should ALL Commercial vehicles be parked in the HGV area? I have noted that small (compared to HGVs) box vans are parking in the car park too, taking up 2 spaces
Yesterday I spoke with the person responsible for Overnight Parking Charge handling, ( actually an employee of WH Smith, as there was no person solely reposible for car park duties on the site at all). Her answer to my complaint was that I should fill out the form on the MOTO website informing them of the misuse of their carparking facilities.
The signage is plainly visible for all to read and see, even if they have to stop to read it , and move to the appropriate area if need be. but there are large signs to direct traffic according to category..but there is no one to police the area so it becomes a 'free for all'. and people will just park any where they can closest to the amenities.
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I think Hja's point about manoeuvring in Motorway Services is not appreciated by many caravanners. My motorhome, with the back box, is about 7 mts long. The minimum I need is two spaces inline. Often quite difficult to find when busy. I also need room width wise because trying to pull out of parking bay with vehicles either side of me could cause problems, it depends on how wide the service station roads are. One of the problems for both caravans and motorhomes is that there is no set provision so all service stations are different. I am conscious that parking in a "caravan" designated bay could disenfranchise a car and caravan combination. At Norton Canes there was an overflow car park signed and once we had got our coffee I did move to that area to allow someone else to have the space. Perhaps what is needed are signs to alternative parking should the dedicated areas be full. Whilst I can understand a commercial van using caravan/motorhome spaces I just don't get why solo cars do as its completely thoughtless.
David
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I agree with Dave the Rave above regarding the high costs of pitches. For example the CAMC is as bad as any other club with a car, caravan and two people costing £45 per night in August at Edinburgh. We use CLs wherever possible but they too have substantially increased their prices, typically £24. Whilst electricity prices have increased significantly I do feel that we are being ripped off. It is not just site fees, the whole ownership experience is one of massive price increase. Caravans now costing into the mid £40,000s. My caravan insurance through the club has gone up massively compared to even these inflationary times to over £500 pa. We typically use the caravan 6 weeks per year and in my case that works out as as £91 per week! Add to that, service costs, caravanning is not cheap and we do it for enjoyment.
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I don't get the big about CLs typically costing £24 pn. There are very many out there that do not charge anything like that. We have just come from a couple where the charge was £16 and £18 pn and am at the moment on a club site which is costing us £15:40pn. We have done over 10 weeks, on CLs, Club and commerce sites all with EHU, so far this year and the average cost is under £18 pn. There are value sites about.
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Once again I am in Contact with MOTO. re the parking at MSA's. I now frequently visit our nearest MSA as my daughter works there now and I have to drive her there,
I frequently see HGVs and Box vans parked in both the Caravan ONLY bays and Coach Parking ONLY bays. I have photgraphic evidence to prove it and have notified MOTO of such frequent misuse of the parking bays.
The terms, 'Campervans' and 'Motorhomes' are used almost interchangeably by the general public,but the DVLA doesn't recognise either of them. They are Motor Caravans.
I have been informed, today, that weights of up to 3,500kg of a 'Motor Caravan' or even a straightforward panel van can park in the normal Car Park, regardless of length (or even width I imagine) as inevitably some will occupy more than one space.
Also worthy of note here re EV charging points at Wooley Edge North . 6 new dedicated spaces have been allocated to car Charging in the general car parking area, not a single one in the Caravan Parking area. Bearing in mind that any car towing a tralier can use the Caravan Bays, this is somewhat awkward for anyone towing anything with an EV. as it means it will have to be unhooked and left while the car goes to be charged in the general car parking area.
My general opinion is that Caravanning and Motorway Service Areas, at the present time is a complete mess and needs to be adressed very soon.
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On a side note, we were returning from a weekend in Ripon with our caravan in tow, and our route went by a certain fast food drive-through, (named after a very famous old farmer.) and my dear lady wife suggested we pull in and get some lunch We had just pulled off the M62 and were heading back to our Storage Yard and we were situated on a very busy roundabout. Remember this was Bank Holiday Monday. when all and sundry had been away and were returning home, relaxed and ready to begin work the following day. ( allegedly).
if we hadn't been crawling along at 2.4 mph (average) for the last 20 mins or so, I'd have said yes, but I just gave her a stare and pointed to the rear of the car and our 'van, tapped the side of my head. sighed at her, shook my head in dismay, and carried on driving.
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